Fake

[cow pollinater]

instead of using more resources than they contribute. .

That's the only part I don't agree with.

 

[highgrit]

Illegal immigration and the illegal drug trade go hand in hand. They both are taking a toll on our country.

 

[HOSS]

instead of using more resources than they contribute. .

That's the only part I don't agree with.

CP, are you saying that you are ok with illegals using more resources than their contribution? In my area illegals are on WIC, welfare, using the emergency room for colds etc while working for cash. I know because I know several people who have horse and chicken farms that pay them.

 

[cow pollinater]

instead of using more resources than they contribute. .

That's the only part I don't agree with.

CP, are you saying that you are ok with illegals using more resources than their contribution? In my area illegals are on WIC, welfare, using the emergency room for colds etc while working for cash. I know because I know several people who have horse and chicken farms that pay them.

Not at all... I'm saying that they pay in more than they take out. Nobody pays employees in cash for very long. Employee wages are tax deductable so any real business is going to pretend that they're on the up and up and pay them with a check and a paper trail so that they can deduct it on their taxes.
I'm sure there are a few illegals that have figured out how free money works but for the most part they are alot further and fewer in between than our legal citizens that have figured out the same tricks.

 

[cow pollinater]

Illegal immigration and the illegal drug trade go hand in hand. They both are taking a toll on our country.

Not true. This summer we(as in everyone who's ever eaten a grape grown in the US) had a shortage of grape pickers because of the drug trade and it looks like it will have some effect on the citrus harvest. All of the violence south of the border that we hear about is from drug runners and the illegals that want to come here to work are FORCED to smuggle in drugs so many of them decided to stay home rather than further the drug trade.
Immigrants here to work and drug runners sneaking accross the border specifically to bring in drugs and then turn around and do it all over again are two totally different classes of people.

 

[highgrit]

Yea right drug dealers and illegal's use some of the same tunnels. CP thats dumb azz statement, you either work with the smugglers or they will kill you. Illegal's are criminals no matter what you might think.

 

[ANAZAZI]

Illegal's are criminals .

:compute:

:compute:

:nod:

 

[cow pollinater]

Yea right drug dealers and illegal's use some of the same tunnels. CP thats dumb azz statement, you either work with the smugglers or they will kill you. Illegal's are criminals no matter what you might think.

That's my point, dumb azz. Many of them chose to stay home rather than smuggle drugs.
Every single honest illegal that I've ever dealt with wishes that there was a path to legal entry that didn't take years to accomplish. They don't like being criminals.
If tommorrow the US ran out of jobs and the Canadian's had more work than they knew what to do with, every honest man in this country would be beating down the border regardless of legality... We're Americans, why would we care about Canadian laws that tell us we can't be prosperous?

 

[HOSS]

That's the only part I don't agree with.[/quote]
CP, are you saying that you are ok with illegals using more resources than their contribution? In my area illegals are on WIC, welfare, using the emergency room for colds etc while working for cash. I know because I know several people who have horse and chicken farms that pay them.[/quote]
Not at all... I'm saying that they pay in more than they take out. Nobody pays employees in cash for very long. Employee wages are tax deductable so any real business is going to pretend that they're on the up and up and pay them with a check and a paper trail so that they can deduct it on their taxes.
I'm sure there are a few illegals that have figured out how free money works but for the most part they are alot further and fewer in between than our legal citizens that have figured out the same tricks.[/quote]
Thanks for the clarification cp. I would have to do some research but I have seen several studies that shows the net loss in revenue in California and Texas due to the resource drain on govt services. Right now I am just too lazy

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

CP, I don't think every Mexican illegal is in the drug trade -- I don't think MOST of them are. However, most of the methamphetamine, marijuana and some cocaine sales in the USA start with a Mexican/South American source, and get here via Mexican family organizations. It's not PC to say that, but if you talk to any prosecutor who works with drug distribution cases, he/she will confirm that for you. Some marijuana does come across from Canada ("BC Bud"), as do legend drugs (which are also imported from Europe).

I would agree that those illegal workers are probably paying into SS and income tax, that goes into some pit in the treasury because those folks will never be able to collect it. In fact, I've wondered just how much $$ that actually is, in light of the big concern about SS going broke . . . . .

 

[cross_7]

By Ed Ashurst
Apache Arizona


The situation on the border isn't just about a few workers walking north. It has everything to do with big business. Billions of dollars are being made trafficking humans, drugs, and contraband across the International Boundary. The Sinaloa Cartel, headed by Chapo Guzman and others, is reaping huge profits doing business along the border. The average coyote charges $1500 - $2500 to guide an illegal alien north to find work; usually abandoning them a short distance north of the line. A young man willing to pack dope north can make more than a construction worker or a teacher in the U.S. and only work a day or two a week.

This is not all south of the line. I could take you and show you businesses where checks and credit cards are not accepted and where very few customers walk through the door, yet the owners live in the largest mansions in town and drive very expensive cars. Could there be some money laundering going on? There are only two industries of any significance in Douglas, AZ: law enforcement (Douglas has one of the largest Border Patrol stations in America), and the illegal trafficking of drugs, people, etc. across the border. These two industries feed on each other, and the powers that be seem happy with the situation. Crooked politicians look good to the public when they clean up drunk driving and prostitution, until you find they own bars and whore houses south of the line. These things have happened!

But this, in my opinion, is only the beginning. Chapo Guzman who heads up the Sinaloa Cartel is a multibillionaire. This guy and others like him may be cruel and sinister people but they are also very smart businessmen. They are reaping profits off of the largest tax free unregulated business on the planet. They have so much cash they are befuddled what to do with it all. But they are going to figure it out.

There are rumors that Guzman is financing modern, state of the art feedlots and packing houses in Mexico with plans to overtake America as the Western hemisphere's leading beef producer. This is probably only a small part of his plans. Mexico is a nation rich in natural recourses. Petroleum is abundant and the corrupt Mexican government is in control of all of it. Pemex is the only gas station in town. Pemex, because of the incompetent Mexican government, is broke. Chapo Guzman is at war with the Mexican government and has dreams (not unrealistic) of controlling the entire nation. Think of all of Mexico's natural resources in the control of Chapo Guzman! He already has the most profitable business in the world - selling Marijuana to your next door neighbor. Think what he could do with a tax free unregulated strangle hold on a nation of poor people begging to work for practically nothing.

Do you think that Chapo Guzman and others like him haven't thought of all of this? Do you think that Guzman isn't laughing all the way to the bank as he watches the evening news and hears how the American Government proclaims that the situation on the border is under control? What is going on in northern Mexico is capitalism in its rawest form. They have an untaxed unregulated business making huge profits and they have no plans of closing up shop any time soon. We here in the U.S. are overtaxed, overregulated and being smothered by increasingly intrusive government that makes it hard to do business in a successful manner. You don't have to be rocket scientist to figure this one out.
Several months ago, not long after Rob Krentz's death, Fox news (channel 10 in Phoenix AZ) contacted me and expressed interest in coming down and doing a news story about me and the problems myself and other ranchers in this area have had in recent months with illegal outlaws. To prepare for my interview with Fox, I asked for assistance from six other neighboring ranchers and businessmen. All of these men are prominent men in the community, tax payers, business owners and individuals who have the best of reputations. Together we made a map of the area which covered from the southeastern corner of AZ going west about 20 miles to the silver creek area, and going north about 30 miles to the area around the towns of Portal, AZ and Rodeo, N.M. On this map we made marks recording violations to United States law committed by illegal aliens. We did not use government statistics (we wouldn't know how to get them) but recorded incidents that we knew had happened first hand, many of which we had witnessed. We tried to record only the incidents that have happened in the last several years.

The sum total of what we recorded is this:

The arrest or capture of 40 illegal in one bunch - 40 (we didn't bother with the countless smaller groups)

Loads of Marijuana found and captured - 213

Dangerous encounters with illegal aliens - 132 (assault, burglaries, forced entries, etc.)

Dead illegal aliens found by civilians - 16

High speed vehicle chases between dope haulers and law enforcement - 14

Illegal aliens spotted with firearms - 12

Fires started by illegal aliens - 9

Over 1000, 000 acres burned with the cost to taxpayers of $40,000,000. One fire near Portal AZ in June of 2010 cost $10,000,000. to fight (forest Service estimate)

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

The situation on the border isn't just about a few workers walking north. It has everything to do with big business. . . . . . You don't have to be rocket scientist to figure this one out. [/quote]

Spot on, Cross_7. It's not just the "obvious." Thx.

 

[Lon]

The beginning of the rights for "illegals" was after the Civil War, allowing the former slaves citizenship, and eventually, Native Americans. European immigrants came in, had sponsors, got jobs, learned English, DID NOT HAVE GOV'T ASSISTANCE. The intention of the old law-makers was not to create an additional welfare society that consisted of immigrants. I better shut up now.

Whooooa lady. You're saying "native americans" should not have been allowed citizenship?? Excuse me but i do believe the word "native" defines them as the original Americans if you want to call them that. We were the immigrants. Who granted US citizenship?? As for slaves, they had no choice. None came here to escape persecution or seeking a better life. And at the time they were given citizenship "slaves" had been occupants of this country for many generations.

I am absolutely NOT saying any such thing, TexasBred. What I am saying is that back in the day neither natives nor freed slaves were granted any rights that American-born whites or (mostly European) immigrants were afforded -- until they were "legally" mandated.

From the time I was young, I wanted to be an "Indian.: I loved the history, the traditions, the music, the clothing -- all of it. When I got older, I felt sort of fake because I did re-create traditional clothing and jewelry and listen to the music.

When it comes to the equal rights of AMERICANS, I may be one of the more liberal thinkers on the board.

In all fairness I read it the same way TB did and the first thing i though was who FU white lady the indians were already here and the blacks didnt ask to come here. :lol2: :lol2: as far as you feeling fake because you was interested in it i dont understand that. i dont know about the indians were your from but here they would except you. in high school there was a teacher from east coast that came here and he grew his hair out long, went hunting made the clothes learned to drum, sing the songs and dance and as far as anyone was concerned he was as much indian as the ones he stood next to because of it. but on the other hand i have seen kids that grew up away from there came home talking like they were off of BET and were enrolled indians but were treated and talked to like they were not indian because they wasnt. its not so much a skin tone thing as it is a being accepted thing for your views on things.

 

[Lon]

Here is my take on most of the whole subject and this is just from what i have seen first hand. Worthless people come in every shape and color. Alot of them are citizens and alot of them are also illegal. Im not just talking about worthless lazy people but worthless as in people who do not put forth anything to better the country they live in. Put the best way i ever read was What man can call himself a man if he does not try and make the world a better place. yes illegals do come here and pay taxes. i knew a few that worked landscaping with me when i was in college and they had all the paperwork and payed in taxes but never got the tax return back the other but at the same time alot of these same poeple put they have 5 or more dependants so not so much is took out and for every one paying in there are alot of them just taking and coming here to live cause living here with no money is easier to do than in thier own country. I think our country should make it easier for them to come and work here and if they are a productive member of society than they should be allowed to be a citizen. but i dont think they should come here when they are to old to work or just plain dont want to do anything and than get any of the benifits of our country cause they have not put forth anything to help our country. I think to become a citizen they should also have to learn english. the fact that our schools require us to learn spanish because of the change in population is stupid and i am all for education but for the right reasons. if you want to live here learn how to speak. i wouldnt move to mexico or germany and expect my neighbers to learn english. also in regards to our own citizens that have been here but never put forth anything to this country productivly i say to get benefits to sit on you azz all day is not right. i have seen people get thier rent paid for and food paid for and their utilities paid for health care paid for and than givin gifts cause they have nuthing all while driving a nice outfit and playing video games all day while i worked as much overtime as i could while going to school full time so i could pay my own bills and all my tuition. but to change this problem things have to change like when they get on housing i think they should be allowed so many years to get thier shi$ together. we are paying all thier bills than while that is happiening they should be going to school to get an education to get a job and off of assistance or get a job and start working to better pay. but from what i have seen the ones on the housing assistance and everything else payed for if they got a min wage job thier assistance was cut and they had a better life not doing anything. so i say instead of the program we have now it needs to be figured out how to be done different to make them evetually earn thier own way. and yeah the ones that dont want a job are worthless but it is not more cost effective to pay them to sit home and do nuthing cause i can garuntee if after so long of being worthless you free ride eventually ran out than i can garuntee most of these people would eventually be wanting to work maybe not hard but putting cans of food on a shelf isnt hard work so there is jobs even the lazy can do.
and dont even get me started on the poeple who have baby after baby while the govt foots the bill for the hospital and all metical bills afterwards while i make payment plans with the hospital for my son to be born and any doctor bills after wards while still coming up with every cent i can to continue to put my wife threw school while she works herself to the bone to help out all she can while she goes to school.

 

[HOSS]

As a kid growing up our farm was about a mile from a big sod farm that hired allot of migrant workers and migrant was exactly what they were. They would come in during the summer and they lived in a series of small houses on the sod farm. They were all male and came alone. They worked all summer and then went back to Mexico for the winter. The did not bring their families. I don't have a problem with this in agricultural areas where there is a shortage of labor as long as permits are issued and they go home at the end of the season. I remember riding my bike down there in the evening and hanging out with the migrants who would cook different kinds of meat over an open fire and cook frijoles in a big iron pot. They would feed my brother and I tacos and we would bring a chunk of pork or beef out of the smokehouse to add to the pot. They would teach us spanish and we would teach them english. Some of them came back year after year to the same farm to work. These days there is a different breed of immigrant that comes here illegaly, stays forever and brings the whole extended family. Instead of just being happy working they are protesting in our streets, pushing the La Raza agenda and try to influence the political landscape.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Lon, I was actually raised in the Dakotas and Montana -- not much time in MT, but I was 5 years old or so when I saw my first "real" Indian (Crow, I believe, now -- based on his gear), in full headdress and regalia, dancing down the street during the Bucking Horse Sale parade/celebration in Miles City -- that hooked me. I was drawn like a magnet to that old man, and my mother had to come snatch me back up a block or so away! I was in SD by 3rd grade -- not far from the reservation by Mobridge, but we were "sheltered" from all that -- I didn't realize that was discrimination until I was in my teens and went to school in Belle Fourche with Native kids. THAT WAS OVER 40 YEARS AGO! In third or fourth grade (near Mobridge), I went with neighbors to a not-far-away Indian school, where they sold little plastic salt and pepper shakers that were orange and green, and looked like totems as a fund-raiser. I couldn't figure out why those kids had to be in a special school and sell salt and pepper shakers . . . . I thought they were just kids like all the rest of us; just a little darker. Belle had a house for boys that came from troubled homes and law trouble from big cities, after spending time at Sky Ranch. I had never seen a black person, in person, until I was 15, and a black kid from Sky Ranch moved into the BF house and attended high school there. Truly, we were sheltered, and my parents didn't encourage fraternization with the local kids, so they were horrified when I dated one! But the Dakota Sioux I met were warm -- poor, but good-hearted. I was probably about 19 when I made my first buckskin dress. Later, I was in Southern Cal, and met/socialized with some members of the Barona tribe out of Ramona, CA. Some were very friendly; some wary -- they certainly didn't think a white girl should be wearing traditional garb at any of their functions. So, that's why I say that there was a time that I felt sort of "fake" in doing so. Now, we have a few Native friends over here, but they belong to our muzzle loading bunch of friends, so we all steal or share dress ideas from them. I've had a full set of Native dress -- a beaded dress and accoutreament -- since I was 19. I built the first set myself. I graduated to a brain-tanned dress about 10 years ago. My enchantment with the history and tradition continues.