Fair or Not Fair

[I luv herfrds]

Son entered his rabbit in the local county fair yesterday, since he does not belong to a 4-H club he entered the Open Show.
I had called the head of the rabbit event the night before to make sure there would be no problem. I was told that they just combined both shows together.
Went in and got registered. Show was scheduled for 3pm. Went over with the rest of the kids,(7 total, son included).
We waited as they went through all of the classes for 4-H.
Just before the end of the show the lady came over and asked what we had entered and how old the rabbit was. I told her he was maybe 5-6 months old and neutered because he was a biter. I was then informed that he could not enter the rabbit at all. What the nice??!!
After it was all over I went to find out what had happened. I was informed that he could have entered him in the Pet Rabbit, but that is a 4-H project not open. I mentioned that, by now I'm getting ticked off. Was informed that the show was over and that was it. Now I'm beyond ticked off.
I had to inform my son that he is not allowed to show his rabbit at which point he breaks down in tears. I then inform the judge and the other lady to come outside and see my son crying.
Went to the fair office to complain and the lady shows up. Almost ended up in a screaming match. Changed the entry and gave my son a lousy ribbon. To me that is beside the point. He was not allowed to compete against the 4-H kids.
This fair is notorious for doing this. It has gotten to the point people from out of the area no longer bring anything in to show.
Same day they were pulling the same stuff on a girl who brought in 12 chickens for show. Just before her show we warned her. Not a 4-H member.
I had nothing against them until yesterday. Now my son REALLY does not want to join.

Has this happened to anybody else?

 

[Lammie]

I haven't had any 4-H experience. My brother used to show. Son has never been interested. But I can tell you that from my experience with little league, soccer and band boosters, sometimes you get some adults running the show that really do not have the good of the kids at heart. They consider the club "their" territory and they jealously guard it, completely forgetting the real mission, which is to give kids something healthy do that will teach them to become productive people in the future.

Do you know the name of the person who told you that the show was open? Can you get that person to admit that he or she told you that to the powers that be?

You are right. It is not fair and it certainly isn't good advertisement for the 4-H. You may be up against the wall, however, unless you join the organization and change it from inside. Or wait to the adults in charge have gone on to bigger things.

I had experience with two band booster parents who absolutely made me not want to volunteer at all. Their daughter was a senior when my son was a freshman, so I just sat back and waited thinking they would move on after graduation.

That was five years ago and they are still there. I had to volunteer to help, so I stuck it out and held my tongue. I am glad I did, because I made some friends and got to see my son more.

Let us know what happened.

 

[cowgirl580]

did you get a copy of the rules for entering open and 4-H projects? read the by-laws and see what they have to say. you can also talk to the 4-H extension agent or person in charge of the office for clarification. after that, if you're still not satisified, find out who is on the fair board and speak with some of them with your concerns and questions.

 

[backhoeboogie]

4-H is a very good program all in all. I wish more kids would get involved in it. It is not as popular as it used to be. That is a shame. Meth has become really popular.

 

[I luv herfrds]

The fair puts out a book each year. The front half is for Open Show and the second half is for the 4-H.
Ran into one of the fair board members and told him what had happened. His response was it wasn't his area or concern. :shock:
The one guy who would have done something retired last year otherwise he would have been on them in a heart beat.
Son is saying next year he is going to enter the Open again and this time he is going to beat them.

backhoeboggie alot of the problem in the area is not just Meth, but also the school sports. Kids don't have enough time for school work, sports, and 4-H.

Son was in 4-H a few years ago, but quit. He always felt left out as a Clover Bud. Was always being told by the older kids he couldn't do anything until he was older. Really put him down.

 

[cattleluvr18]

that sounds like the BS that goes on with our 4-H. personally, i cant find much about it to brag up.

 

[I luv herfrds]

The lady in charge is a neighbor who lives 7 miles from us. Know her and her family.

 

[Susie David]

Sounds like the lady forgot the 4-Hs....or didn't understand the Heart part or maybe doesn't have the Head for the job.

Could be a slow death for the fair if they treat folks that way.

Just my two bits worth...asked for or not Dmc

 

[certherfbeef]

Son was in 4-H a few years ago, but quit. He always felt left out as a Clover Bud. Was always being told by the older kids he couldn't do anything until he was older. Really put him down.

We have a separate "cloverbud club" within our traditional club here. We try our darndest to keep them active and having fun.

Sorry you and your son are having such a bad 4-H experience.

 

[Miss Daisy]

two years ago my brother and I each entered a chicken in the open class along with my ffa steer and his 4h sheep. thought it would be fun and a nice change. we signed up for and did our barn duty right away. two sessions required for each of us. turns out his market class was at the same time as one of his barn duties so i switched him, not thinking it was a big deal. apparently it was. the adult in charge of the barn was furious that we would do such a thing. i told her that i didnt understand, as long as it gone done and we both did our time why did it matter if we switched. she said thats not how the schedule works. neither of us were allowed to show our chickens nor were we given any ribbons or recognition. i kinda think it was also an excuse because neither of us showed chickens before and they didnt want us to make the show look bad. i certainly havent had that kind of problem with ffa, nothing against 4h though

 

[Jogeephus]

My son entered a project with either 4H of FFA. He spent a lot of time on it and won first in one event then first in state. He was going to nationals and had spent a lot of time sprucing things up only to be told by a guy at the state level he could not enter cause he had not filled out a form. Never saw the form and his teacher said he never saw the form either. I was livid. I mad a phone call to the head man and spoke with him. He could not believe some pencil neck was going to hurt a child because all the forms weren't filled out properly. He made a phone call himself and my son was allowed to go to nationals. There, the pencil neck, pointed to my son and said "this is the one". He placed third in the event but I think they had it in for them.

Its a shame when a teachers ego gets in the way of their teaching. As the head guy said, "what's important is the child". He is right.

 

[MistyMorning]

In theory 4-h sounds like a wonderful program. In fact if you don't have a good club leader, you can be in for a lot of headaches. The paperwork and rules and regs for showing at the fair are overwhelming (a good leader helps with that). I :heart: Herfords, I could rant for hours on this. My daughter was in it for 4 years and when she quit we were just giddy with relief. Did some showing in open class too and although a lot less paperwork, can be pretty rough. Your son sounds like a trooper wanting to go back!

 

[I luv herfrds]

Susie it is killing this fair. People are not coming nor showing. 10 years ago the chicken pens were full. This year there is less then a dozen birds. It is all 4-H. Same with hogs, beef cattle, sheep, and any other project.

certherbeef, tried to get him to rejoin,won't do it. When he was a member the clover buds started tomatos one year. Only one of the older kids helped.

Jo I would have loved to have smacked that pencil neck up along side the head for that. Taking his attitude out on a kid who has worked hard to get where they are is wrong.

Miss Daisy that really stinks.

Quite a few people were also mad about what had happened.

 

[Brute 23]

Sad about your son not being able to show... but its a good life lesson learned... to bad it came early. Tell him to wait 20yrs and see where alot of those people are. :lol:

If you don't have a good leader to stand up and keep the parents and other adults in line it can ruin everything for the kids... and the whole fair in general.

AND if that is the case... you better be part of the click. :roll: Small town politics are a Mo-Fo.

 

[Just Curious]

Just out of curiousity...
How many of you complaining about the 4-H are really involved outside of having children that would like to show?
I.e.... How many of you are leaders? How many of you are judges? How many of you "work" directly with you extension office to assist with the set up of your concessionaires, exhibit facilities, and fairgrounds in general?
I suggest that you all try judging first! Maybe practice by becoming a basketball officials where in almost any gym you will find plenty of folks that will help you out!
We have a very good 4-H program here in Ronan Montana that covers a multitude of exhibits and exhibitors.
What I am hearing is sour grapes and my suggestion to you all that haven't been in any administrative position for you to get personally and phyiscally (More than your mouth) involved...
If any of you that have posted to this post have filled an active role (for more that a meeting or two)... You are to be commended and my hat is off to you...
As for the rest of you... Get involved to make it a better program if your area's program isn't what "you" think it should be..

 

[CUZ]

Just out of curiousity...
How many of you complaining about the 4-H are really involved outside of having children that would like to show?
I.e.... How many of you are leaders? How many of you are judges? How many of you "work" directly with you extension office to assist with the set up of your concessionaires, exhibit facilities, and fairgrounds in general?
I suggest that you all try judging first! Maybe practice by becoming a basketball officials where in almost any gym you will find plenty of folks that will help you out!
We have a very good 4-H program here in Ronan Montana that covers a multitude of exhibits and exhibitors.
What I am hearing is sour grapes and my suggestion to you all that haven't been in any administrative position for you to get personally and phyiscally (More than your mouth) involved...
If any of you that have posted to this post have filled an active role (for more that a meeting or two)... You are to be commended and my hat is off to you...
As for the rest of you... Get involved to make it a better program if your area's program isn't what "you" think it should be..

Hello Just Curious,

I agree with you. HOW DARE these people expect the organization's rules to apply to their kids when they don't hold a position (leader or administrator) in the organization. I mean some of them are not even serving in some lowly volunteer (setting up concessionaires, facilities or the fairgrounds in general) position. They haven't built up any goodwill by "working" with the extension office or doing any judging.

You'd think these sour grape people would EXPECT to be lied to, tricked and treated like crap when all they do is bring an animal to show at the fair.

In all seriousness, congrats on having a good program where you are, but everyone is not so lucky. And not everyone has the time or talent to make a program what it's supposed to be and just have to take it as it comes.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Just out of curiousity...
How many of you complaining about the 4-H are really involved outside of having children that would like to show?
I.e.... How many of you are leaders? How many of you are judges? How many of you "work" directly with you extension office to assist with the set up of your concessionaires, exhibit facilities, and fairgrounds in general?
I suggest that you all try judging first! Maybe practice by becoming a basketball officials where in almost any gym you will find plenty of folks that will help you out!
We have a very good 4-H program here in Ronan Montana that covers a multitude of exhibits and exhibitors.
What I am hearing is sour grapes and my suggestion to you all that haven't been in any administrative position for you to get personally and phyiscally (More than your mouth) involved...
If any of you that have posted to this post have filled an active role (for more that a meeting or two)... You are to be commended and my hat is off to you...
As for the rest of you... Get involved to make it a better program if your area's program isn't what "you" think it should be..

Hello Just Curious,

I agree with you. HOW DARE these people expect the organization's rules to apply to their kids when they don't hold a position (leader or administrator) in the organization. I mean some of them are not even serving in some lowly volunteer (setting up concessionaires, facilities or the fairgrounds in general) position. They haven't built up any goodwill by "working" with the extension office or doing any judging.

You'd think these sour grape people would EXPECT to be lied to, tricked and treated like crap when all they do is bring an animal to show at the fair.

In all seriousness, congrats on having a good program where you are, but everyone is not so lucky. And not everyone has the time or talent to make a program what it's supposed to be and just have to take it as it comes.

Count me in on agreeing too. I've coached over 80 youth basketball, baseball, or softball teams. Officiated thousands of basketball games and only quit because I couldn't run the floor any longer (not enough wind in me).

When I was president of the softball association, I had mothers insisting that I keep fathers from attending PUBLIC parks. "He gets them every other weekend and shouldn't be able to come watch the games...." If he is not drinking or causing problems, you can't call the police. Dad's just wanted to watch his kids play ball. We should focus on real problems.

Someone created 4-H with great insight for youth. If you don't like it, join in and fix it. Don't elminate it. Don't think of just your child, think of all children. If something is indeed wrong, fix it for all the kids.

 

[novatech]

HOW DARE these people expect the organization's rules to apply to their kids when they don't hold a position (leader or administrator) in the organization. I mean some of them are not even serving in some lowly volunteer (setting up concessionaires, facilities or the fairgrounds in general) position. They haven't built up any goodwill by "working" with the extension office or doing any judging.

This is exactly the attitude that is the problem. Thinking that your child should take presidence over any other child just because the parent is involved. The children have nothing to do with this. Being involved should not be for ones own child but for all the children. Grab hold of nonmembers and treat them like your own and maybe there will be more members. Some parents do not have the time to be involved but want their children to have the opportunity and experiance and education needed for the future. And above all remember what the 4 H's stand for.

"I pledge my head to clearer thinking,
my heart to greater loyalty,
my hands to larger service
and my health to better living,
for my club, my community, my country, and my world."

 

[Lammie]

Just out of curiousity...
How many of you complaining about the 4-H are really involved outside of having children that would like to show?
I.e.... How many of you are leaders? How many of you are judges? How many of you "work" directly with you extension office to assist with the set up of your concessionaires, exhibit facilities, and fairgrounds in general?
I suggest that you all try judging first! Maybe practice by becoming a basketball officials where in almost any gym you will find plenty of folks that will help you out!
We have a very good 4-H program here in Ronan Montana that covers a multitude of exhibits and exhibitors.
What I am hearing is sour grapes and my suggestion to you all that haven't been in any administrative position for you to get personally and phyiscally (More than your mouth) involved...
If any of you that have posted to this post have filled an active role (for more that a meeting or two)... You are to be commended and my hat is off to you...
As for the rest of you... Get involved to make it a better program if your area's program isn't what "you" think it should be..

I know from my own outside experience that is was very difficult for me to get involved in more than just volunteering, I tried. The adults in offices just don't want to share power, and "power" is the key word here. There were jobs that no one wanted to do and jobs that were available on the sign-up, but unless you were an officer, you were not going to get to do the.

Chaperoning was a big thing. So was setting up before shows, because it is high visibility for the adults. I was content with working in the concession stands, but even that was made difficult one year by the lady the put in charge of the thing, so I some programs, I monitored judging rooms, I made posters, anything I could. By the time Steven was a senior, I was starting to get bitter, so I dropped off a bit.

William is coming up on that age, so I guess I will have the chance to start over at a different school, but I bet it is all the same everywhere.

 

[Brute 23]

HOW DARE these people expect the organization's rules to apply to their kids when they don't hold a position (leader or administrator) in the organization. I mean some of them are not even serving in some lowly volunteer (setting up concessionaires, facilities or the fairgrounds in general) position. They haven't built up any goodwill by "working" with the extension office or doing any judging.

This is exactly the attitude that is the problem. Thinking that your child should take presidence over any other child just because the parent is involved. The children have nothing to do with this. Being involved should not be for ones own child but for all the children. Grab hold of nonmembers and treat them like your own and maybe there will be more members. Some parents do not have the time to be involved but want their children to have the opportunity and experiance and education needed for the future. And above all remember what the 4 H's stand for.

"I pledge my head to clearer thinking,
my heart to greater loyalty,
my hands to larger service
and my health to better living,
for my club, my community, my country, and my world."

I think that was sarcasm.... ;-)

AND save us the motto... any one who has actually been in 4H knows what goes on.

When I was in it most of the time the kids were coming to meetings half drunk and they wouldn't do %@$# to help you out unless they needed soemthing to write in their little book.