Fair or Not Fair

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AND save us the motto... any one who has actually been in 4H knows what goes on.
When I was in it most of the time the kids were coming to meetings half drunk and they wouldn't do %@$# to help you out unless they needed soemthing to write in their little book.
Knowing someone with the "worldly" insight that you seem to have will come in handy someday I am sure...
But for now, I am glad that I can simply agree to disagree and say with a degree of certainty that your view isn't the case everywhere...
 
Just Curious":1fwf2pyr said:
What I am hearing is sour grapes and my suggestion to you all that haven't been in any administrative position for you to get personally and phyiscally
I must have missed something because I don't see any sour grapes here.

Why should the treatment of a kid be dependent upon favoritism determined by the parents involvement.
If that is the way it is to be, then it should be a club for parents to do their ego thing and leave the kids out of it.
 
CUZ":2ic5kztw said:
HOW DARE these people expect the organization's rules to apply to their kids when they don't hold a position (leader or administrator) in the organization. I mean some of them are not even serving in some lowly volunteer (setting up concessionaires, facilities or the fairgrounds in general) position. They haven't built up any goodwill by "working" with the extension office or doing any judging.
You'd think these sour grape people would EXPECT to be lied to, tricked and treated like crap when all they do is bring an animal to show at the fair.
Most programs are only as good as the leadership and volunteers that do find the time to support them...
Call it a sore spot with me... For 28 years now I have run up and down gym floors refereeing at the Jr. High & High School levels.... I have stood behind plates umpiring girl's softball and boy's little league... I have seen fights at little league games between parents and coaches... parents and umpires... I have seen parents and coaches yell obsenities at referees that, even after many years in the Marine Corps with an extensive vocabulary of four letter words at my finger tips, I refuse to use today.
Sarcasm is not necessary... Getting involved is...
Understanding the differences between Open and 4-H classes could shed some light on how the program works and why things happen the way they do... And if things don't go the way you think they should have.. Having the confidence and compassion in knowing that those who are out there trying to help are doing the best job that they can...

CUZ":2ic5kztw said:
In all seriousness, congrats on having a good program where you are, but everyone is not so lucky. And not everyone has the time or talent to make a program what it's supposed to be and just have to take it as it comes.
Thank you! I am blessed... Our Lord has seen fit, for whatever reason, to provide me with good knees and the desire and ability to serve my club, my community, my country, and my world.".
 
Just Curious when my son was in the 4-H program I was a leader and assistant to another leader. Cloverbud and horse.
I was the cooking leader, but one of the parents did not like that idea and told the kids to not call me. When I tried to set up a cooking program none of the kids would show because of this parent, didn't find this out until after I left.
Was I trying to fix anything in the club? No.
I was always willing to do what was needed whether it was going through the books and projects to make sure they were complete to right down to helping out at the food booth. What was funny about that day is I was late getting to my shift because I was helping a friend lay a new laminate floor in her house. I stayed beyond my appointed time to make up for the amount of time I was late.
How was I paid for this? Someone stole my pie pans.
I also spent time helping kids get their stalls ready or cleaned out.
Don't sit there and tell me about volunteering. I fight fires and do EMS all on my own time. I'm always ready to help anybody out that needs. Even after I left the club I was still willing to help the kids out.
By the way some of the kids in that rabbit show thought it was a bunch of bunk for not letting my son show his rabbit with them. There were also some other 4-H kids that sided with my son on this.
So who is in the wrong? The leader who told him he couldn't show half way through the show? Yes.
I do not blame the kids on any of it. They had no control.

Those of you talking about this being sour grapes talk to me after you watch your child sit there for an hour waiting patiently for their name to be called, then being told at the end that they cannot show and burst into tears.
Sour grapes I don't think so, just a ticked off former leader.
My boots are a size 7D, will they fit you?
 
I luv herfrds":21wfmipx said:
I fight fires and do EMS all on my own time. I'm always ready to help anybody out that needs. Even after I left the club I was still willing to help the kids out.
My boots are a size 7D, will they fit you?
Thank you for putting in the time... I hope that those around you appreciate it!
As for your question, I know what you're trying to say, and yes they will fit me... A bit tight, only becasue I have bigg feet, but I am and have walked in them... Again, thank you for serving.
Chuck
 
Brute 23":88fhu76v said:
I think that was sarcasm.... ;-)

Thank you for noticing.

As I read about these innocent kids getting screwed over by the Boss Hoggs in their little part of the world it brought back a few very specific memories of kids (including my own) getting the short end of the stick through no fault of their own.

These organizations can spout all of the high-ideal propaganda they want but they are dependent on the local leaders to make it stand up. When the local leaders are martinets using their power to push and protect their own instead of the higher ideals of the organization it's worse than not having a club at all.

There are good and bad leaders all over the country. If I come in and see my kids got a bad one and I notice it, it's not sour grapes - it's a FACT. There are also folks who show up and expect every rule to be bent or broken to accommodate them. That's also a fact. So the innocent get burned by bad leaders and good leaders get jaded by the obnoxious.

This topic really pushes my buttons and I wanted to go on a bigger longer rant, but I'll just finish with a few key words that aren't in any mission statement but have already been mentioned because that's people's experiences with these organizations. Power, cliques, politics and revenge (as in "this is the one").

God Bless Us Every One
Cuz
 
I luv herfrds":3knvfuux said:
The fair puts out a book each year. The front half is for Open Show and the second half is for the 4-H.
Ran into one of the fair board members and told him what had happened. His response was it wasn't his area or concern. :shock:
The one guy who would have done something retired last year otherwise he would have been on them in a heart beat.
Son is saying next year he is going to enter the Open again and this time he is going to beat them.

backhoeboggie alot of the problem in the area is not just Meth, but also the school sports. Kids don't have enough time for school work, sports, and 4-H.

Son was in 4-H a few years ago, but quit. He always felt left out as a Clover Bud. Was always being told by the older kids he couldn't do anything until he was older. Really put him down.

there is more than one fair board member. i would also re-read your manual so you have everything you need at your fingertips. did you read all the by-laws also? they aren't always in the fair manual. you can also attend a fair board mtg and introduce the topic when it comes time for open discussion or have yourself put on the agenda. have you talked to the state head cooperative extension office, if you feel it needs to go that far?
 
cowgirl580 if you re-read my first post you will see that I had called the person in charge of the rabbit show the night before, same person that told me that he couldn't show later. Told me that there was no problem.
I read the book several times before we entered. Read the rules for the showings.
I am already planning on attending the next fair meeting to get this issue addressed.
 
backhoeboogie":27kadbja said:
4-H is a very good program all in all. I wish more kids would get involved in it. It is not as popular as it used to be. That is a shame. Meth has become really popular.

Maybe more kids would become involved in it if the parents would stay out of it. Case in point - a friend of the family's daughter won overall Grand Champion at the state fair with her horse in halter class last week. Another competitor's parents did their best to get her disqualified - stating the horse was a thoroughbred, not a quarter horse. This was done despite the fact that the friend of the family had registration papers for the AQHA for this particular horse. Now, maybe I'm wrong here, but I do not believe the AQHA accepts registrations without a history of accepted Quarter Horse bloodlines.
 
When it comes to volunteering, I wish more people would. I hear I don't have time all the time. I don't have time either. Sometimes you have to make time.

This week the boys and I didn't really want to help a local elderly gentleman bale hay. He was facing fines from the city for his grass being too tall. His baler was broke and couldn't figure out how to fix it. He taught my boys how to work on just about everything. However, over the Christmas holiday he had a stroke. He lost his problem solving skills. After a couple of hours, the mower was fixed and he baled his hay. My boys got it out of the field and put in his barn. When someone come to buy the bale, one of us are their to make sure he isn't rip off. The sadest part of this story....his son lives two house down. He is too busy for his own dad. This makes me so angry and sick.

Moral of this story...sometimes you have help other even if you will not benefit. Life is not just about you...it is about working as a team to make our world a little better place to live.
 
I luv herfrds":2s7afmt2 said:
Son entered his rabbit in the local county fair yesterday, since he does not belong to a 4-H club he entered the Open Show.
I had called the head of the rabbit event the night before to make sure there would be no problem. I was told that they just combined both shows together.
Went in and got registered. Show was scheduled for 3pm. Went over with the rest of the kids,(7 total, son included).
We waited as they went through all of the classes for 4-H.
Just before the end of the show the lady came over and asked what we had entered and how old the rabbit was. I told her he was maybe 5-6 months old and neutered because he was a biter. I was then informed that he could not enter the rabbit at all. What the nice??!!
After it was all over I went to find out what had happened. I was informed that he could have entered him in the Pet Rabbit, but that is a 4-H project not open. I mentioned that, by now I'm getting ticked off. Was informed that the show was over and that was it. Now I'm beyond ticked off.
I had to inform my son that he is not allowed to show his rabbit at which point he breaks down in tears. I then inform the judge and the other lady to come outside and see my son crying.
Went to the fair office to complain and the lady shows up. Almost ended up in a screaming match. Changed the entry and gave my son a lousy ribbon. To me that is beside the point. He was not allowed to compete against the 4-H kids.
This fair is notorious for doing this. It has gotten to the point people from out of the area no longer bring anything in to show.
Same day they were pulling the same stuff on a girl who brought in 12 chickens for show. Just before her show we warned her. Not a 4-H member.
I had nothing against them until yesterday. Now my son REALLY does not want to join.
:mad: :mad: :mad:
Has this happened to anybody else?

I know nothing about rabbits. But was he not allowed to show because of the being neutered? Was the open class only for breeding animals?

At our fair and most I know of, the open classes are for breeding animals. And not for market animals. We got my son a registered hog when he was 6 to show so he could show in the open class. But before I did it I made sure I knew the rules and got him the appropriate animal to meet them rules.

Sorry your son did not get to show, but make sure you did not make a mistake before you blame someone else for not allowing you to show in a class that was not open to you. Part of the experience is teaching kids to follow the guidelines and as small as it might seem, by that same token it would not be fair to another kid that might have placed higher with their animal while obeying the rules.

It should be simple to find out, don't ask someone just read the rule book. Either he should have been allowed or not.
 
ffamom know what you are talking about. My grandmother is 89 and lives 248 miles from us, but I make sure I call her every Friday night. If she doesn't answer I'm a nervous wreck until she does. When I go to visit I will vaccum her house, dust and do any little chores she can't do. The sad part is my Mom lives just over a mile from her and barely does anything for her. Oldest sister is near there every weekend and same thing, nothing.
She'll live with my family before she is ever put in a nursing home.

aplusmnt I went through the fair book and rules No where does it say a neutered rabbit cannot be entered.
 
I luv herfrds":1w0dp3lv said:
aplusmnt I went through the fair book and rules No where does it say a neutered rabbit cannot be entered.

Is it a breeding class though? Is that the reason it could not be entered? What is the reason they gave you for being disqualified. Something is just not making sense to me.

At our fair the only open classes are for registered breeding animals. If my kids showed up with a steer to compete against bulls they would be disqualified. And rightly so!

And from my past experience more times than not people just do not know the rules more often than those in charge change them.
 
Sorry your son had such a bad time.

At our county fair there is only one open show and it is for breeding rabbits, which is held a week or so before the actual fair, all the other shows are for members of the counties 4-H or FFA clubs. Except for the non livestock division there is an adult and 65 and older divisions.

My son loves 4-H, he's been in 4-H since he was 10, we have a really good club. He's been president for the last two years and my husband is also the beef leader for the club. He shows his turkey's and comm. steers through 4-H. He's also a member of the FFA, which he shows his heifer's at the majors through FFA.

We are members of the fair association and my husband and son go out and help them set up the barn before the fair. My husband is also on the Poultry Committee and the Replacement Heifer Committee.

4-H is still big in our county, but, then we have really good Extension Agents that are really willing to help the kids. Most of the members of the fair association, they showed animals at the fair or their kids showed or are showing.
 
aplusmnt:
Open Show Class 1- Any Crossbred Rabbit
Class 2- One Litter 3 or more kits
Class 3- Any Pure bred Rabbit
Lot 1. Jr. Buck- under 6 months
Lot 2. Jr. Doe- under 6 month
Lot 3. Sr. Buck- over 6 months
Lot 4. Sr. Doe- over 6 months
Lot 5. Intermediate Buck- 6 to 8 months heavy breeds only
Lot 6. Intermediate Doe- 6 to 8 months heavy breeds only
Lot 7. Best of Show $5.00 plus Rosette

This is how it is listed in the Fair book. Now show me where it says a neutered rabbit cannot be entered. That was the excuse I was given. He was in the Lot 3. Since we were not sure when he was born we felt that was a safe guess.

By the way I just spent $1600 tonight at the 4-H livestock sale on two lambs. Husband almost ripped my head off for it. Glad the kids are happy though.
 
I luv herfrds":1lygpjvd said:
aplusmnt:
Open Show Class 1- Any Crossbred Rabbit
Class 2- One Litter 3 or more kits
Class 3- Any Pure bred Rabbit
Lot 1. Jr. Buck- under 6 months
Lot 2. Jr. Doe- under 6 month
Lot 3. Sr. Buck- over 6 months
Lot 4. Sr. Doe- over 6 months
Lot 5. Intermediate Buck- 6 to 8 months heavy breeds only
Lot 6. Intermediate Doe- 6 to 8 months heavy breeds only
Lot 7. Best of Show $5.00 plus Rosette

This is how it is listed in the Fair book. Now show me where it says a neutered rabbit cannot be entered. That was the excuse I was given. He was in the Lot 3. Since we were not sure when he was born we felt that was a safe guess.

By the way I just spent $1600 tonight at the 4-H livestock sale on two lambs. Husband almost ripped my head off for it. Glad the kids are happy though.

I looked at our fair book and no where does it say a neutered animal can not show, it also has a list very similiar to yours in class. But it also goes on and offers a meat class also. So in my case that would tell me that the others are breeding class.

All I can say to you is instead of getting mad about the exact wording in a book and looking for loop holes. Find out if that class is a breeding class as they said. Has it always been that way amongst the Rabbit showers.

I know it sure sound logical in line with all the other species I am familiar with. So what they told you does not seem out of place with my 4-H experience.

If the case is that it truly is a breeding class and yours could not breed due to neutering it would do the child a lot less harm to tell them Mom and Dad messed up and got you the wrong rabbit than it would to make them think they got screwed over unfairly.

Sometimes as parents we are over sensitive in regards our children. What might not seem a bid deal to you, might seem like a big deal to some other kid that got red instead of blue while being beat out by an animal that should not be there.

Guess that is all I can say without knowing more about your specific County Fair and its rules. Hope the future experiences are more rewarding for you and your kids. 4-H is a good thing for kids, many things can be learned by it.
 
Very interesting views on the 4-H program. Around here, the animal and bird showing is about 90% parents and 10% kids. Believe me the 10% don't stand a chance. In last years horse show there were 2 kids showing horses, and it was pretty obvious the horses involved had never seen them before. Others were not so blatant, and there were a couple that appeared to actually have been working with their horses. Of course, the aforementioned 2 won. Sad but true.

Of course, that's nothing new. It worked the same way 50 years ago when I was a member.
 
backhoeboogie":3gl54xks said:
Buck is a term with meaning.
I went online to look that up myself today... I could not find anything definitive that separates male rabbits that can breed and those that can not.... Like in Goats... Bucks vs Wethers...
Anyone know what the term might be for a neutered rabbit?
BTW... Unlucky isn't it! :D
 
aplusmnt We entered the rabbit in the open show.
The 4-H section is simalar and does include the meat and other areas including pet. The judge did mention he should have entered him in pet until we informed her it was in open show because he is NOT in 4-H.

Jim62 not surprised. Told my son that if he wanted the rabbit is was his job to take care of it. The only time I ever had to get on him was when it was 98 degrees outside and his rabbit was still in his outside hutch. He ran out and brought him inside where it was cooler.

Just Curious we just call him an "it's it" and a nutless wonder
:oops: :lol:
Tried to reach a couple we know that breed and show rabbits, haven't been able to reach them.
 

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