Exhaust Brake on a 95 Dodge
- Thread starter Shadscale
- Start date
Help Support CattleToday:
Nesikep
Well-known member
I have one on my '94, seems to be fine.. was on the truck when I got it, truck has 250,000 miles on it, and I use it a LOT... Lots of hills around here, and I get 100,000 miles out of a set of front brake pads.
Do you have the heavy exhaust valve spring in your truck? If they're the stock springs, that will cause poor hold-back, as the exhaust pressure will push the valve down in another cylinder (one that's on the intake stroke)
My problem is 5th gear in the tranny likes to pop out on engine brake, 2 different units have done it, and my friend has had it on his truck too. I'm really looking for an NV5600 to put in.
Do you have the heavy exhaust valve spring in your truck? If they're the stock springs, that will cause poor hold-back, as the exhaust pressure will push the valve down in another cylinder (one that's on the intake stroke)
My problem is 5th gear in the tranny likes to pop out on engine brake, 2 different units have done it, and my friend has had it on his truck too. I'm really looking for an NV5600 to put in.
tnwalkingred
Well-known member
Nesikep,
5th gear popping out is due to a nut coming loose. The guy down the road has fixed this in about 20 Dodges and he welds the nut in place to resolve the issue. It's an easy and cheap fix as I've been told. There is a ton of information about it on the web if you care to look.
I have an exhaust brake on my 2001 Dodge and I love it when I'm towing. Does anyone use it all the time? I've been told that's the best way to do it.
Kyle
5th gear popping out is due to a nut coming loose. The guy down the road has fixed this in about 20 Dodges and he welds the nut in place to resolve the issue. It's an easy and cheap fix as I've been told. There is a ton of information about it on the web if you care to look.
I have an exhaust brake on my 2001 Dodge and I love it when I'm towing. Does anyone use it all the time? I've been told that's the best way to do it.
Kyle
tnwalkingred
Well-known member
Here is a good link to the 5th gear issue. I'm sure I will have to do this at some point. I just replaced the gear box in my Dodge as it had alot of sway to it. I thought it might be the traction bar or a ball joint but it turned out to be the gear box. She drives like a new one now!
http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/ ... 82652.html
Kyle
http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/ ... 82652.html
Kyle
denvermartinfarms
Well-known member
the exhaust brake came on my 2007 6.7 cummins in my daully and I keep it on, my truck is a 6spd and by using the exhaust brake and down shifting I rarely use the brakes.tnwalkingred":3jgfecgd said:
Nesikep
Well-known member
I'll have to differ with you on that... When you lose 5th gear entirely, that's from the nut backing off, as the gear it holds slides off the splines... DO NOT weld on the shaft, as you will cause a weak spot in it from the heat, and it'll snap there... I've seen it... There is a better nut with a setscrew that fixes it, it's about $40 or so, and you can still remove it when you need it... I use permanent strength locktite on it as well, and clean everything with brake cleaner.
I think it pops out under deceleration/exhaust brake partly due to end play in the countershaft, where the 5th gear synchros are, and because the transmission's gears are cut so that they push against the bearing under power, under deceleration, you're pulling on it, and you end up with some slop there, and with the vibration, it works its way out.
I've had the transmission out 5 times in about 50,000 miles, The first time for the 5th gear nut, once for the clutch when it seriously disintegrated (the hub rivets sheared off), once more when the snap ring that holds the 5th gear synchros popped off (DO NOT SHIFT HARD INTO 5th!! or any gear for that matter), Once more for when I stripped the teeth off 5th gear, and the last time for when I snapped the input shaft... Needless to say, I'm getting pretty darned good at it!
I use the engine brake all the time as well, but don't 'leave it on', it's on a switch on the shifter, as well as a switch on the accelerator pedal, you need to have your foot off the gas and the shifter switch on for it to engage.
I'
I think it pops out under deceleration/exhaust brake partly due to end play in the countershaft, where the 5th gear synchros are, and because the transmission's gears are cut so that they push against the bearing under power, under deceleration, you're pulling on it, and you end up with some slop there, and with the vibration, it works its way out.
I've had the transmission out 5 times in about 50,000 miles, The first time for the 5th gear nut, once for the clutch when it seriously disintegrated (the hub rivets sheared off), once more when the snap ring that holds the 5th gear synchros popped off (DO NOT SHIFT HARD INTO 5th!! or any gear for that matter), Once more for when I stripped the teeth off 5th gear, and the last time for when I snapped the input shaft... Needless to say, I'm getting pretty darned good at it!
I use the engine brake all the time as well, but don't 'leave it on', it's on a switch on the shifter, as well as a switch on the accelerator pedal, you need to have your foot off the gas and the shifter switch on for it to engage.
I'
saltbranch
Well-known member
Listen to Nesikip,,,,,There should be a main shaft replacement for the tranny. I had a 97 with the same issues , I ran hot shot with it and replaced the nut/5th gear fix 5 times in 200k. DO NOT tack weld the nut, it will cause the mainshaft to snap. You can "stake" the nut with a center punch, but this will not stop it. I did a Allison tranny swap before the mainshaft fix came out. It basically converts the Dodge to the GM style NV4500. Unless you are pulling heavy all the time you need to think about this. Jake brakes are hard on the motor and increase fuel consumption. Brake pads and shoes are cheap. 25 years ago, that was something I was taught by an Over The Road trucking company and has stuck with me over the years. Jakes have their place, no doubt.
Nesikep
Well-known member
I don't really see how exhaust compression brakes (the kind on a dodge) are hard on the engine, or fuel consumption... Engine retarder brakes on the big rigs are a different animal entirely as I believe they function internally somehow, and use fuel to do it... Compression brakes basically only turn the engine into an air compressor, no fuel is injected when it is engaged.
You can hear the difference between the two types of brakes, the real rattle of a real jake brake, and the hiss of a compression brake. Compression brakes can be good to help warm up the engine in the winter too, and prevent cylinder wall washing due to too low EGT's. it helps if you turn up the idle a bit (a PITA to do) for the wintertime as well... about 800-850 is what I like in the winter, about 150 RPM lower for summer.
Another note about 5th gear... One of the root problems isn't that the splines are too short (there are places selling "full spline" shafts), but that if the nut was just loose for a long time before it came off, the splines get worn, causing it to work on the new nut more, and nothing will stop it at that point... the gear needs to have a tight fit to the shaft!
How is that allison tranny? I hear the GM style NV4500 was not much more than different splines on the shafts. Tell me about that tranny and how it holds up... 5 or 6 speed?
You can hear the difference between the two types of brakes, the real rattle of a real jake brake, and the hiss of a compression brake. Compression brakes can be good to help warm up the engine in the winter too, and prevent cylinder wall washing due to too low EGT's. it helps if you turn up the idle a bit (a PITA to do) for the wintertime as well... about 800-850 is what I like in the winter, about 150 RPM lower for summer.
Another note about 5th gear... One of the root problems isn't that the splines are too short (there are places selling "full spline" shafts), but that if the nut was just loose for a long time before it came off, the splines get worn, causing it to work on the new nut more, and nothing will stop it at that point... the gear needs to have a tight fit to the shaft!
How is that allison tranny? I hear the GM style NV4500 was not much more than different splines on the shafts. Tell me about that tranny and how it holds up... 5 or 6 speed?
Nesikep
Well-known member
Oh, and the 6.7L's have a slightly different engine brake, rather than a butterfly valve after the turbo like the older models, they use the vanes of the variable vane turbo to close the exhaust flow.
saltbranch
Well-known member
Wow Nesikep, if brakes are not being used and the jake or engine brake is via the motor....then yea there is wear a tear on the engine. That does not come free. A motor is nothing more than an air compressor to begin with.
The NV4500 on the Chevy's was a better design back then, look it up. I swapped the Allison and Brownie 3 spd(low,direct.overdrive) in at around 200k. Truck was sold around 550k or so..dont remember exact. I got the Allison and back plate from a street sweeper that caught on fire. I hung the brownie where where the carrier bearing went. It took me about about a month to build the mounts and everything and get on the road again.
The NV4500 on the Chevy's was a better design back then, look it up. I swapped the Allison and Brownie 3 spd(low,direct.overdrive) in at around 200k. Truck was sold around 550k or so..dont remember exact. I got the Allison and back plate from a street sweeper that caught on fire. I hung the brownie where where the carrier bearing went. It took me about about a month to build the mounts and everything and get on the road again.
Nesikep
Well-known member
Whenever the engine is running there's going to be wear and tear on it, so lets leave that part of it out, an engine retarder brake is, from my knowledge, a brake that works by making the engine try to run backward, and engine compressor brake plugs the exhaust, and doesn't use fuel to do it. I think the engine retarder brakes are more powerful, but I could see them being harder on the engine by having far higher peak cylinder pressures... on a compression brake, your peak pressures won't be much higher than your cranking compression.
Was your truck a 4x4? would it work on a 4x4? did the Brownie go before or after the transfer case if it was? I am a bit confused, you're saying Allison and NV4500... which one?
Was your truck a 4x4? would it work on a 4x4? did the Brownie go before or after the transfer case if it was? I am a bit confused, you're saying Allison and NV4500... which one?
saltbranch
Well-known member
My truck was a 97 Dodge 1 ton cab and chassis truck with a 11' bed. I think 84" Cab to Axle. It was a 2wd with the straight front axle..like 450 super duty back then. I swapped an Allison 545, 4 spd auto with 4th being 1:1. No overdrive, thats where the brownie came in. The brownie provided the overdrive. My truck originally was a 5 spd with 4.10's. After I did the swap, I changed the rear to 3.55's. I had the best of both worlds the allison with brownie in direct was equal to a 5spd with 4.10's. With the Allison and brownie in OD, it was abit higher geared than a 5spd with a 3.55 rear but ran out very good. You floated the gears in the brownie like you do in a 18 wheeler. The allison stayed in drive, let the tranny shift through the gears, then let off accelerator pedal, float the brownie in to next gear and get back on the gas pedal and let the allison shift. The low range on the brownie is equal to 4 low in a 4x4 truck,,,very nice to have when backing a 40' G/N loaded heavy.
A friend of mine put a 3208 cat,allison 545, brownie, and divorce mount t-case in a 68 Dodge crew cab 4x4...it was sweet.
In my truck I had a 1000.00 in custom driveshafts alone. Not cheap to convert from big ujoints to 1 ton ujoints. Was it worth it? Yes, back then. Plus I put the marine injectors in the motor and cam plate in the pump.
For a 4x4 it works like this
Motor-tranny-driveshaft to brownie-driveshaft to t-case- then drive shaft to the front/rear diffs,,,just imagine the gear choices :cowboy:
Its by far cheaper to convert to the chevy setup or new style main shaft. You never hear of the Chevy nv4500, 5th gear problems for a reason. When I did my conversion, that was not an option. Hope that answers your questions
A friend of mine put a 3208 cat,allison 545, brownie, and divorce mount t-case in a 68 Dodge crew cab 4x4...it was sweet.
In my truck I had a 1000.00 in custom driveshafts alone. Not cheap to convert from big ujoints to 1 ton ujoints. Was it worth it? Yes, back then. Plus I put the marine injectors in the motor and cam plate in the pump.
For a 4x4 it works like this
Motor-tranny-driveshaft to brownie-driveshaft to t-case- then drive shaft to the front/rear diffs,,,just imagine the gear choices :cowboy:
Its by far cheaper to convert to the chevy setup or new style main shaft. You never hear of the Chevy nv4500, 5th gear problems for a reason. When I did my conversion, that was not an option. Hope that answers your questions
Nesikep
Well-known member
Just imagine, you can put your rear driveshaft to the front, and the front driveshaft to the rear by the time you get all that put together! As it stands now, my truck has a 2.75:1 transfer case reduction, I can pin the throttle in first low and walk beside the truck. Before I put in the manual hubs, I changed the center axle disconnect (Dodge's hub equivalent) vacuum source from the Tcase 'switch' to a electric over vacuum switch run off my obsolete fog lamps, it made it so I could easily back up to something without locking the hubs, handy for pavement, it also made it so in the wintertime, I'd put the tcase in 4x4, and I could engage the 'hubs' on the fly as long as I wasn't spinning... worked *really* well at any speed.
I have stock injectors in this engine, going to put 60HP injectors in my new one, I have a cam plate as well, and governor springs are SO nice as well, I found my truck started to back off starting around 2300 RPM, which gave me a pretty narrow powerband, from 1800-2300, which was less than the 4th to 5th gear change, with the governor springs, it pull hard to about 27-2800 though you have to keep an eye on the EGT's with the stock turbo...
I was thinking of making my own overdrive... I figure it should be possible with some old transmission parts, and probably go with an air shift as I have air on my truck already... I'd probably slaughter an old transfer case for it's input shaft as well. Maybe some day!
I have stock injectors in this engine, going to put 60HP injectors in my new one, I have a cam plate as well, and governor springs are SO nice as well, I found my truck started to back off starting around 2300 RPM, which gave me a pretty narrow powerband, from 1800-2300, which was less than the 4th to 5th gear change, with the governor springs, it pull hard to about 27-2800 though you have to keep an eye on the EGT's with the stock turbo...
I was thinking of making my own overdrive... I figure it should be possible with some old transmission parts, and probably go with an air shift as I have air on my truck already... I'd probably slaughter an old transfer case for it's input shaft as well. Maybe some day!
saltbranch
Well-known member
It does take some work building the tranny mounts,Brownie mounts and getting the angles right for the driveshafts to run without vibration. . Building the shifters, shift linkages and making kickdown cables. Not necessarily hard to get the front shaft to the front end and the rear shaft to the rear end though. Most definitely not for your average parts changer/shade tree mechanic.
My buddies 68 Dodge with the 3208 cat, the drive shaft was maybe 12" long from the brownie to t-case, shortest drive shaft I have seen in a truck. I dont know what the total reduction was when the brownie and t-case were in low. I do know that truck would flat out run though on the highway and one of the best Crew cab Power wagons I have seen.I built a off road/rock crawler rig back around 2000. In low range I had 6.14:1 reduction, that was wicked. Crank the motor to 8k rpm and you could still count the lugs on the mud grip as it turned. I had the rear spooled and the front with a locker. Miss that truck, I had it standing so straight up that the 5 speed tranny fluid ran out of the shifter boot. I should have kept it for a ranch truck in hindsight.
My buddies 68 Dodge with the 3208 cat, the drive shaft was maybe 12" long from the brownie to t-case, shortest drive shaft I have seen in a truck. I dont know what the total reduction was when the brownie and t-case were in low. I do know that truck would flat out run though on the highway and one of the best Crew cab Power wagons I have seen.I built a off road/rock crawler rig back around 2000. In low range I had 6.14:1 reduction, that was wicked. Crank the motor to 8k rpm and you could still count the lugs on the mud grip as it turned. I had the rear spooled and the front with a locker. Miss that truck, I had it standing so straight up that the 5 speed tranny fluid ran out of the shifter boot. I should have kept it for a ranch truck in hindsight.
