Embryo Calves

[gizmom]

We purchased some embryos last year 4 out of N Bar Kinochtry Bty V1498P X 6807 and 4 out of N Bar Miss Emulous G4709 X EXT these donors are older cows the actual due date for the embryos is 10/8/12 but three of the recips have already calved. So far we have 2 heifers out of the Bty X 6807 cow and 1 heifer out of the G4709 X EXT mating.

N Bar Miss Emulous G4709

N Bar Kinochtry Bty V1498P

I think both these old girls look pretty darn good for their age.

Gizmom

 

[greybeard]

Look pretty good to me for any age.

 

[deenranch]

Congrats on getting heifers. :clap: :banana:

I seem to always get bulls....



They usually calve about 7 days early. The embryos are 7 days old when they are implanted.

 

[gizmom]

deenranch

I was super excited when the first one arrived and found out it was a heifer then the next one I was like naw can't be but when the third one arrived I had to tell somebody lol! Hopefully we will get a couple more before were done.

The due date of the embryos takes into account that the egg was 7 days old when implanted.

Gizmom
http://www.gizmoangus.com

 

[Jake]

Very nice looking cows. Really like the emulous cow on top. Can we see a pedigree?

 

[gizmom]

Jake

Here are the links to the pedigrees on the two cows:

N Bar Kinochtry Bty V1498P
http://www.angus.org/Animal/EpdPedD...Bh2r8XGFAJq/oCaTLYwMXXo9hBT2UNspjUsDkxHsPrw==

N Bar Miss Emulous G4709
http://www.angus.org/Animal/EpdPedD...xe7HkC5BgfelbTkbqRGYVrABQANLUM/9zsO/6bWYlRA==

Update another heifer out of the G4709 mating arrived today we must be living right. We will DNA test all of the calves to verify parentage but I feel 99.9% certain that they are embryo calves the bulls didn't go in until two weeks after the eggs so life is good!

We like using some of the old genetics check out our latest blog http://www.gizmoangus.blogspot.comabout the bulls we have consigned to the Fall Round Up Sale three of them are out of another old cow that did a great job VDAR Elluna 97 Reg # 11100316 the Van Dykes considered her one of the best cows they have ever bred and that is high praise, becaused they have raised some great ones.

Gizmom
http://www.gizmoangus.com

 

[cow pollinater]

I don't understand...
Why flush these two? I understand that you like older genetics but I don't understand going backwards to get there. These cows do very well epd-wise on maternal and $EN but everything else is pretty boring. I'd understand using old genetics to reduce size as I'm kind of doing that myself but the mature height and weight of these doesn't really do that either.
I understand AI to keep the genetics going, but why flush genetics that are not moving foreward?

 

[gizmom]

Cow Pollinator

I don't think we are going backwards using this type cow. I look at the cow first not the numbers, we are cattle breeders not multipliers there is a difference.

Gizmom

 

[brihop]

You guys mentioned using older genetics, so I'm curious as to your opinion on this... I saw some ads in the "Stockman Grass Farmer" for "old style, grass-based" Black Angus genetics... Have you ever looked that the breeders listed in there and if so, what is your opinion on using their genetics (via AI) in your angus herd?

 

[RD-Sam]

Nice looking cows, and I like the pedigrees. How is the temperament on that line bred EXT cow?

 

[gizmom]

birhop
Sorry, I don't get the "Stockman Grass Farmer" so I really can't comment.

RD
I purchased the embryos so don't have access to the cow I know many folks don't care for EXT and it is due to disposition but we have never had any bad experiences with that genetic line.

Took a few more pictures this weekend and thought I would post them.

932 is a three year old that has a Missing Link heifer calf on her side.

717 A Matrix daughter with a Coleman Midland heifer calf at side.

831-RB A Sinclair Excellency 5X25 out of another old cow that I liked alot and her OCC Juneau 807J bull calf

Not a great shot but a three year old that just had her 2nd calf a Missing Link heifer. 956 is the natural calf out of our 658 donor cow and a Matrix son.

 

[Willow Springs]

I don't understand...
Why flush these two? I understand that you like older genetics but I don't understand going backwards to get there. These cows do very well epd-wise on maternal and $EN but everything else is pretty boring. I'd understand using old genetics to reduce size as I'm kind of doing that myself but the mature height and weight of these doesn't really do that either.
I understand AI to keep the genetics going, but why flush genetics that are not moving foreward?

By this comment you are presuming that he is breeding cattle on paper. In a commercial environment the most profitable cow (for the producer) is the one that lasts the longest. In the Purebred environment this gets distorted with numbers and banners allowing otherwise unprofitable cows to become profitable. I have used number and banner bulls that have taken me backwards a lot faster than the older more proven bulls that I have used. I now breed for function (and hopefully therefore longevity), and let the numbers and banners fall where they may.

I think the older cows are exactly the ones to be flushed. I even prefer to buy 6-7 year old cows or older becasue the work is done, and they are just as likely (or more so) to produce another five years as are bred heifers.

 

[Anonymous]

How much difference is there in implanting embryos vs AI?
Placement, timing, and equipment?

 

[Baldie Maker]

How do you like the OCC genetics? Do you stack them on each other or try to break them up onto different lines of cattle? How did you first hear of the coleman program? jw I'm no angus breeder but thought I was current on who's who but only recently knew of them because of Regis.

 

[gizmom]

Hookline
We use Ashby Embryo Service to do our ET work, we do the set up and breeding of the donor and the set up of the recips then Dr. Henshaw comes in and does the actual flush as well as implant the eggs into the recips. The protocol for setting up the donor is and I am plugging in last years dates:

Donor:
12/21 CIDR
12/23 pm GnRH
12/25 pm Folltropin (FSH-P)
12/26 pm Folltropin (FSH-P)
12/27 am Folltropin (FSH-P)
12/27 pm Folltropin (FSH-P)
12/28 am Folltropin (FSH-P)
12/28 pm Folltropin (FSH-P)
12/28 pm Lutalyse
12/29 am Folltropin (FSH-P)
12/29 am Lutalyse
12/29 am Remove CIDR
12/30 Heat* (date may vary)
GNRH (at first sign of heat)
1/6 Flush (7 days after heat)

The dosage for each injection is listed on the schedule and is adjusted by weight or past flush history of the individual cow being flushed. ET work takes alot of time and trips through the chute, and that is just for the donor cows then you need to set up recips and that protocol is:
12/21 am GnRH
12/21 am CIDR
12/28 am Prostamate/Lutalyse
12/28 am Remove CIDR
12/30 am GnRH
1/6 embryo transfer
Again dosage for each recip is provided in the set up information provided by Ashby Embryo Service.

We use a timed AI protocol for our AI work and it isn't much different than the set up of the recips.

Gizmom

 

[Anonymous]

Wow. The donor work is intensive. How difficult is it to keep the donors cooperative?

 

[gizmom]

Baldie Maker

This is the first year for us using the OCC genetics, and we are just sampling at this point. We rarely try a young bull Regis is an exception and he has been used on the strength of the cow family backing him. We (my husband our son who is a partner in our farm and I) made a trip to Montana to tour several Angus operations we went to Van Dyke, Sinclair, Sitz and Coleman. All have wonderful operations with excellent cattle but we really like the type and style of the Coleman cattle. Larry showed us the foundation bull calf that was one of the most powerful bull calves I have ever seen. We looked at a group of flush sisters with their first calf at side and they were all like peas in a pod needless to say we were impressed. The next year we went to a dispersal sale in Alabama and in the sale was a flush brother to the cows we had seen in Montana, we were able to purchase him and he has done an excellent job in our program. He calves are so consistant deep with plenty of muscle expression. The most difficult part of being a cattle breeder is to learn to be patient. We are calving the first of our Coleman EXT heifers this year and the next phase of the plan is to breed these first calf heifers back to our Sinclair Rito 9R9 bull so now we only have to wait another three or four years to see if we got it right.

Gizmom

 

[gizmom]

Hookline

By the end of the set up they are a bit leary about going through the chute.

Gizmom

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

You are lucky! Out of 5 embryo calves so far, four have been bulls! Yuck. The next two have been sexed heifers, so time will tell. I love playing with embryos, we can make great genetic changes in our herd pretty quickly.
I have to say, my recips are never early! Maybe because I am having mostly bulls? But my recips always calve 285 to 290 days, along with the rest of the herd. We are flushing our first cow this fall, pretty excited about that.
Good looking cows by the way. Would love to see some Simm x Angus on some of those crosses!

 

[gizmom]

Fire Sweep

Good luck with your first flush, we have been flushing for eight or nine years Harley Schnider did our ET work up until his retirement. We used Ashby for the first time last year and have been very satisfied with the results. We had a first this year out the 6807 flush we had four eggs and ended up with four calves three heifers and one bull calf. The EXT flush we got two calves and we have several ET calves out of our 658 donor, to be honest I don't know how many because we are calving five or six a day and I haven't had a chance to really look at who had what lol it is kinda busy around here right now.

Gizmom