Early Embryonic Death

[bpwagner115]

We time A.I.'d heifers for the first time this year and may have made a mistake. Following timed A.I., we re-patched heifers at about day 16-17 to catch any heats and got 5 in return estrus from days 17-22. (I initially thought this was great! 25/30 caught) When vet palped he only called 11 of 30 A.I. bred and two opens. Obviously, there are a million possible factors, but just looking at days when embryo is most susceptible to stress, its from days 7-17 (http://genex.crinet.com/page1854/UnderstandingTheEffectsOfStressOnEmbryonicMortalityInCattle)

Does anyone have any research on how soon after a cow would abort/absorb pregnancy she would resume cycling? According to our estrotects, 6 heifers cycled again 30-35 days after timed a.i. date. I don't have an issue accepting that they didn't conceive a.i., just a desire for the knowledge as to why they didn't re-cycle until 30-35 days instead of the 18-24 days i would have anticipated.


Just wondering if anyone has has experiences similar. Thanks all

 

[Nesikep]

I would give a check on their mineral status.

One of my best producing cows would breed back fine if exposed to the bull right after calving, but wouldn't take if there was some months between calving and the bull.
Over the course of a summer, I noticed she'd come back into heat in 21-35 day cycles, and the vet told me she was getting bred, but not sticking. A mineral panel proved she was very low in Copper, Phosphorus, and Selenium.
That's my experience with it.

 

[cow pollinater]

Day 30-35 is her heat cycle on the other ovary. Once she decided she wasn't pregnant anymore you saw the end of her next follicular wave which was not on the same ovary that she showed you a heat on. I see heats at day's 9-11 and at 30-35 fairly commonly and have had two confirmed cases where I bred a cow eleven days since last heat and wound up with two conceptions, one in each horn but eleven days apart.

 

[Waterway65]

Mineral is important as stated. Also energy level of thier diet so that they are gaining weight. A third that I feel is important is to keep what you are feeding consistent at least thirty days after breeding. The time when the embryo actually attaches to the uterine wall is the most critical time for maintaining pregnancy.

 

[Nesikep]

Day 30-35 is her heat cycle on the other ovary. Once she decided she wasn't pregnant anymore you saw the end of her next follicular wave which was not on the same ovary that she showed you a heat on. I see heats at day's 9-11 and at 30-35 fairly commonly and have had two confirmed cases where I bred a cow eleven days since last heat and wound up with two conceptions, one in each horn but eleven days apart.

That's not the way my vet explained it, but I can see the logic behind it. My vet has never been very good at explaining :roll:

 

[Jessica06]

Also a possibility that some of them weren't cycling at all. How soon did you have a cleanup bull out? If they abort, they can start cycling again pretty darn quick.

 

[bpwagner115]

Thanks all for the thoughts. Diet remained consistent as did choice mineral. Clean up bull went in on day 25. I'm not sure if they were cycling prior, but 20/30 showed estrus before/at time of tai, then gave the other 10 gnrh and ai'd them next morning and more than half had shown heat since gnrh injection. I guess I feel a LITTLE relieved that it may not have everything to do with running them through the alley after tai. Regardless, I think it may be wise not to,continue in the future...

 

[bse]

You said the vet called 11 out of 30, maybe the vet is a little off, I did 10 once vet called 2 open 3 AI bred, I had 6 AI calves so maybe a few there.
It seems day 25 is my worst day, the repro guru at the university says they absorb them from day 1 to 8 no reason really why, it just is.. They may cycle right after absorbing it but like you I only repatch at day 17 so I never see the early cycles and it was leaving me scratching my head at the later cycling dates.

 

[bpwagner115]

You said the vet called 11 out of 30, maybe the vet is a little off, I did 10 once vet called 2 open 3 AI bred, I had 6 AI calves so maybe a few there.
It seems day 25 is my worst day, the repro guru at the university says they absorb them from day 1 to 8 no reason really why, it just is.. They may cycle right after absorbing it but like you I only repatch at day 17 so I never see the early cycles and it was leaving me scratching my head at the later cycling dates.

Yes, I am hoping that is a possibility as well. They were palp'd 145 days after TAI date. Not sure how difficult it is for a vet to age calves from 100-145 days. It sure wouldn't hurt my feelings to see him have a couple wrong....

 

[Jessica06]

My guess is that he may have more than a couple wrong! Time will tell.