E 85

[TexasBred]

I am not a chemist I have 20 years of real world use of the product as in a 20 year study none of the claims you are making have happened in 20 years of use. A 20 year study can you understand that.

Twenty years of use does not make a "study". Maybe you had no problems....I've never had any probelms with teh 10% ethanol mix either but the E85 is not to be used in my vehicles so I don't use it. Give us some specifics to back up these broad sweeping statements you're making.....go back 20 years for instance. How much ethanol was manufactured in the US. (I assume you're in the US). I know there was none down here.....All the pumps around here say "The fuel MAY contain as much as 10% ethanol). Apparently some does and some does not as fuel milage varies greatly from purchase to purchase.

 

[TexasBred]

I can't say that I have had any problems with E10 but that is not the point with me yet. What do we do when we get hungry, livestock or man, and we have to decide to "eat" or have fuel for our auto? This is a slippery slope to me.

This is not a slippery slope for me. Somebody show me where it is written that "we have to decide to "eat" or have fuel for our auto" when with ethanol we can and do have both. Distilling ethanol from corn removes the energy content (starch) from the corn. The actual food value (protein) is still there in the byproduct in a concentrated form (DDG) that is ideal for cattle feed, less so for swine and poultry because it lacks a certain amino acid.

The price for all feed products including corn and DDG has gone through the roof. In part because our weak US $ encourages export of huge quantities of DDG to places like China.

Whoooooaaaaaa.....Wanna run that one by us again???? Ever finished a beef on straight DDG?

 

[John SD]

I am not a chemist I have 20 years of real world use of the product as in a 20 year study none of the claims you are making have happened in 20 years of use. A 20 year study can you understand that.

Twenty years of use does not make a "study". Maybe you had no problems....I've never had any probelms with teh 10% ethanol mix either but the E85 is not to be used in my vehicles so I don't use it. Give us some specifics to back up these broad sweeping statements you're making.....go back 20 years for instance. How much ethanol was manufactured in the US. (I assume you're in the US). I know there was none down here.....All the pumps around here say "The fuel MAY contain as much as 10% ethanol). Apparently some does and some does not as fuel milage varies greatly from purchase to purchase.

I must admit I am biased toward years of real world experience vs some "study". I keep in mind the results of a "study" can largely depend on who is financing the "study" and who stands to benefit from the results. ;-)

If anyone reading IS interested in real world experience vs a "study", here is mine. Dad bought a new 1979 Chevy Impala in the fall of 1978. 305 small block with a 2bbl carb. It was about that time that E10 (then referred to as gasohol) first came on the market. This was our first vehicle that also required unleaded fuel. Since we only had one bulk gasoline tank on the place with regular leaded gas in it, from the beginning we filled the car in town with this newfangled gasohol.

30 years and 240K miles later the car sits in my bone pile with the suspension shot and transmission problems. The car used a bit of oil and would occassionally foul a spark plug but still started and ran good when parked. The engine internals have never been touched. Neither has the carburetor ever been worked on. Only regular normal maintenance items have been required.

The car has had lots of fuel pumps on it during its lifetime. I remember one fuel pump lasted about 2000 miles. Fortunately, they would leak fuel externally or just not put out enough to keep the car up to speed. I suppose I could blame ethanol for the fuel pump troubles but I don't. :roll:

 

[John SD]

Whoaaaaa.....TexasBred!!!! I don't appreciate someone trying to put words in my mouth. Show me where I said anything at all about finishing a beef on straight DDG. And it's not my intention to turn this into a corn-fed vs grass-fed discussion.

First off, I'm a cow/calf guy. Any beef I finish to butcher for myself or friends who buy one from me occassionally is feed a relatively light (1 lb per 100 lbs per head per day) of a 50/50 cracked corn/DDG mix, and grazes native pasture through the winter. I feed free choice good quality hay if necessary. This winter the hay was quite neccessary because there was no grazing until the last week or so when the snow started melting.

 

[TexasBred]

Whoaaaaa.....TexasBred!!!! I don't appreciate someone trying to put words in my mouth. Show me where I said anything at all about finishing a beef on straight DDG. And it's not my intention to turn this into a corn-fed vs grass-fed discussion.

First off, I'm a cow/calf guy. Any beef I finish to butcher for myself or friends who buy one from me occassionally is feed a relatively light (1 lb per 100 lbs per head per day) of a 50/50 cracked corn/DDG mix, and grazes native pasture through the winter. I feed free choice good quality hay if necessary. This winter the hay was quite neccessary because there was no grazing until the last week or so when the snow started melting.

You never mentioned using corn for anything other than to produce ethanol....you "feeding the cow" referred only to DDG. The 50:50 mix will work....70:30 would work better.

 

[John SD]

50/50 is generally what my feed guy gets delivered in. Sometimes 60/40. I don't know how much it currently costs since I have not purchased any since last fall but well over $200/ton. The 50/50 mix is supposed to be around 16% protein.

I like the physical qualites of the mix to feed in bunks with 5 gal buckets. Cracked corn alone is quite dusty. DDG alone blows around in the wind. The oil content of the DDG helps keep the dust of the cracked corn down while the cracked corn gives the DDG some needed body to stay put in the feed bunk.

My range cows generally don't get fed anything but hay and salt and mineral. I have made some home brew lick tubs for them with the cracked corn/DDG and used salt and/or mineral as a limiter. I might do that soon this spring and add some mag oxide to prevent grass tetany. I have found that a little MO2 goes a long way.