Does Calf Size Matter?

[jnowack]

Doc,

I too wander why you would not use him, when you are the one that ussually talks and pushes epd's.

EPD's are computed using ratios. When this calf ratio's high on bw, then his EPD will go up. At this point he will still be an unproven bull with little accuracy. And any cattleman worth his salt will look at the actual bw, along with the epd and make his decision based on that. There are undoubtedly some people out there who would buy the bull but there are a lot more who would pass on him for that reason. As purebred breeders we need to produce cattle that will work for our customers and that are marketable. The high bw would make him unmarketable for me. Even if I had a customer who wanted him, I would be reluctant to sell a bull with that kind of BW because if he turns out to be a hard calver I would likely not only lose that customer but other potental custmers that come in contact with the unsatisfied one. For me it is not worth risking your reputation on a potential train wreck.

All the calves will have the same EPD for BW. He's an ET calf with a different breed dam.

Sorry Mike, I didn't realize that he was an ET. I would still be concerned but would put some consideration into the contribution of the recip to his bw. I have not had any ET calves quite that big. I would still be leaning towards making a steer out of him.

 

[BRG]

No ratios are made on an ET calf.

pretty big assumption saying "any cattleman worth his salt will look at the actual bw, along with the epd"

I think it is more important to look at the actual animal and see if he is big shouldered or big headed, or maybe he is just 5 inches longer or shorter than the rest. Actual birthweights, especially ET calves, don't mean a whole lot, when you look at the shape and length of the calf born.

 

[jnowack]

No ratios are made on an ET calf.

pretty big assumption saying "any cattleman worth his salt will look at the actual bw, along with the epd"

I think it is more important to look at the actual animal and see if he is big shouldered or big headed, or maybe he is just 5 inches longer or shorter than the rest. Actual birthweights, especially ET calves, don't mean a whole lot, when you look at the shape and length of the calf born.

I did not realize they were ET's when I made the first post. While I don't put as much importance on actual bw on ET calves, I don't disregard it, and 118 lbs would make me less inclined to buy him.
As for the calf shape.......that is another discussion. Someone told me once that if big heads and shoulders were so bad for calving then why don't buffalo have lots of problems? I am not saying we should make cows look like buffalo but it is an interesting point that buffalo don't have much calving problems and if you saw a bull shaped like one you would probably think "hard calver".

 

[DOC HARRIS]

MikeC-

"All the calves will have the same EPD for BW. He's an ET calf with a different breed dam."

I was not aware of ALL of the facts when you first posted the question. The fact that he is an ET calf DOES influence my decision-making, however I still would hesitate to use him with the given birth weight, but I would have to see the calf, AND HIS GENETIC DAM, and take Phenotype factors into consideration. Insofar as my stressing EPD's, it has always been with the understanding that when selecting stock on the basis of EPD's it should ALWAYS be in coordination with the Phenotype of the individual - not just EPD's only! By the same token, the selection process should always include a perusal of EPD's, and not just Phenotype only! I concede that a Breeder's good eye is imperative in the selection process, but that is not the ONLY criteria to utilize in order to be successful - particularly if the choice is a breeding bull.

I would rule out the use of an Ouija Board - however! :lol2: :nod:

DOC HARRIS

 

[ollie?]

I cut the big calf a few days ago. Not for his BW but because he was rough and ugly. End of story.

 

[MountainFarmChar]

I would never purchase a bull with a 100lb + birth weight no matter the price. I don't think my 900-1000 lb. cows could handle having that big a calf.

Just curious, what breed of cattle do you have?

A 900lb cow seems kinda small to me but I'm sure there are some pros to having this size cow.

MFC