Does Calf Size Matter?

[MikeC]

A friend of mine had 3 bull calves in the last two days. He's in the purebred business. One calf weighed 74, one weighed 83, and one weighed 118. They all have similiar epd's and were fairly close to the correct gestation.

Would the heavier calf's BW deter you from buying him?


Just want some opinions......................

 

[Workinonit Farm]

Would the heavier calf's BW deter you from buying him?

Not necessarily, especially if I were going to be using him on proven cows.

But, if I had any 'proven' cows with historically high birthweight calves, I may not be inclined to use him on those particular cows. I learned that lesson the hard way.

Katherine

 

[Brandonm2]

First of all I would really be impressed that the breeder was honest enough too tell me that the big calf actually weighed 118 pounds. He wins brownie points for that revelation. That said I would never purchase the 118 lb calf. I would really have too think on purchasing a 95 lb calf; but there is no way I purchase a bull who's actual birth weight is 118 lbs. Not for heifers and not for cows.

 

[Frankie]

First of all I would really be impressed that the breeder was honest enough too tell me that the big calf actually weighed 118 pounds. He wins brownie points for that revelation. That said I would never purchase the 118 lb calf. I would really have too think on purchasing a 95 lb calf; but there is no way I purchase a bull who's actual birth weight is 118 lbs. Not for heifers and not for cows.

I don't think you're alone in your feeling about buying a bull with an actual BW of 100+ pounds. I've seen at least one high performing bull sell for at least $500, maybe $1,000 less than similar aged bulls with lower birth weights and lower performance numbers.

 

[Brandonm2]

I don't think you're alone in your feeling about buying a bull with an actual BW of 100+ pounds. I've seen at least one high performing bull sell for at least $500, maybe $1,000 less than similar aged bulls with lower birth weights and lower performance numbers.

I view a 100++ lb birth weight calf like I do a less than 500 lb adjusted weaning weight bull calf. He simply did not perform well enough to be a breeding bull for me. I can't speak for everyone; but both should be castrated. They are simply not good enough too be allowed to promulgate their DNA. That may not be their fault. It COULD be a management issue; but why take unnecessary chances?

 

[LaneFarms]

I would never purchase a bull with a 100lb + birth weight no matter the price. I don't think my 900-1000 lb. cows could handle having that big a calf.

 

[blk mule]

I certainly would NOT breed any cow to a bull with a BW like
that. Leave those for the cattlemen with the crank type calf pullers. (they will need them)

blk mule

 

[MikeC]

I don't think you're alone in your feeling about buying a bull with an actual BW of 100+ pounds. I've seen at least one high performing bull sell for at least $500, maybe $1,000 less than similar aged bulls with lower birth weights and lower performance numbers.

I view a 100++ lb birth weight calf like I do a less than 500 lb adjusted weaning weight bull calf. He simply did not perform well enough to be a breeding bull for me. I can't speak for everyone; but both should be castrated. They are simply not good enough too be allowed to promulgate their DNA. That may not be their fault. It COULD be a management issue; but why take unnecessary chances?

What if I told you the cow spit this calf out in about 5 minutes after her water bag broke? Totally unassisted.

 

[Wewild]

I quess this one must be worthless for AI.

http://www.limigene.com/lg/sire/sire.asp?rn=968249&bull=6

 

[OK Jeanne]

Any bull calf born in our herd that is over 80 lbs goes
into the beef program...no exceptions.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

What if I told you the cow spit this calf out in about 5 minutes after her water bag broke? Totally unassisted

I don't care if she delivered a calf that weighed 125# in two minutes - I would breed the cow to a LOW BW bull and 'feedlot' the calf. Anything that weighs over 100#s is too big for a breeding herd. We have just discussed, on the Forum in the last week or so, the problems of brood cows getting too big, and this is an example of it. The old argument that "we sell POUNDS" is true, but keeping cows that produce calves that weigh over 100# is NOT the way to manage a successful Beef operation! What goes around - comes around, and sooner or later the Genetics of TOO LARGE seedstock will COME AROUND and your Mortality rate will soar, and your $Profit will drop like a lead balloon!

DOC HARRIS

 

[randiliana]

118 is a bit big for us. I would be a bit leery of him. Having said that, our bulls at the moment are :

Hereford - 92 (77-115 lb range on 37 calves last year)
Hereford - 94 (new bull)
Shorthorn - 95 (first calves this spring)
Black Angus - 100 (first calves this spring)
Black Angus - 100 (first calves this spring)
Black Angus - 80 (new heifer bull)

And we have used 2 Gelbveih bulls in the past with 107 and 109 BW with no exceptionally large calves out of them. The ones BW ranged form 70-112 on 44 calves over 2 years. The other wasn't far off that.

On the other hand, we WON'T us a bull with a really light BW. We rarely look at a bull that was under 80# unless he has exceptional growth.

 

[Brandonm2]

I don't think you're alone in your feeling about buying a bull with an actual BW of 100+ pounds. I've seen at least one high performing bull sell for at least $500, maybe $1,000 less than similar aged bulls with lower birth weights and lower performance numbers.

I view a 100++ lb birth weight calf like I do a less than 500 lb adjusted weaning weight bull calf. He simply did not perform well enough to be a breeding bull for me. I can't speak for everyone; but both should be castrated. They are simply not good enough too be allowed to promulgate their DNA. That may not be their fault. It COULD be a management issue; but why take unnecessary chances?

What if I told you the cow spit this calf out in about 5 minutes after her water bag broke? Totally unassisted.

Wouldn't matter a bit. I wouldn't be breeding him to his mama. He needs to be served on a plate.

 

[cfpinz]

I wouldn't touch him. Like Brandon said, respect is due to the breeder for not sweeping him under the rug. How many breeders would own up to having a calf that big? Freak or not, why play Russian Roulette with your four-legged employees?

cfpinz

 

[manaftergodsheart413]

I personally don't think it really matters how much he weighed at birth because no one really knows if he fed or not or the conditions those cattle were in I will say this all of the calves were slightly bigger than average so it sounds like their sire just throws big calves but if you wanted to purchase the calf wait until he is weaned and see what his actual weaning weights are and stuff like that and if you then choose to buy the young bull just breed him to cows but it's to early to tell what he will be like

 

[Aero]

They all have similiar epd's and were fairly close to the correct gestation..

if the breeder turns in the birth weights in contemporary groups, the BW EPDs will reflect the differences.

 

[MikeC]

They all have similiar epd's and were fairly close to the correct gestation..

if the breeder turns in the birth weights in contemporary groups, the BW EPDs will reflect the differences.

There won't be any BW EPD differences between any of the calves.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

I like high birthweights, but 118 is getting a little high for me. I may have missed this, what what frame score were the sire/dam? If both are monsters, then 118 is nothing. If you bred that calf to some 13-1400 lb cows, you'd likely end up with 90 - 100 lb calves, unless the cows were already prone to large calves.

As well, you don't mention the shape. You said the cow pretty much spit the calf out, so I'm assuming its got those nice front shoulders that we both know are a true indicator of calving ease?

Rod

 

[preston39]

A friend of mine had 3 bull calves in the last two days. He's in the purebred business. One calf weighed 74, one weighed 83, and one weighed 118. They all have similiar epd's and were fairly close to the correct gestation.

Would the heavier calf's BW deter you from buying him?


Just want some opinions......................

==============
MikeC,

Your hypothetical is a loaded question.

Is the progency from the same sire?

From the same dam EPD grouping?

Was the gestation period management the same?

Were there health issues involved"

Was the gestation feed the same?

Were the calves born the same time of the year?

etc.

Not knowing some details makes an opinion difficult and probably inaccurate.

 

[MikeC]

A friend of mine had 3 bull calves in the last two days. He's in the purebred business. One calf weighed 74, one weighed 83, and one weighed 118. They all have similiar epd's and were fairly close to the correct gestation.

Would the heavier calf's BW deter you from buying him?


Just want some opinions......................

==============
MikeC,

Your hypothetical is a loaded question.
Is the progency from the same sire?
From the same dam EPD grouping?
Was the gestation period management the same?
Were there health issues involved"
Was the gestation feed the same?
Were the calves born the same time of the year?

etc.

Not knowing some details makes an opinion difficult and probably inaccurate.

0-yes
1-yes
2-yes?
3-yes
4-no
5-yes
6-yes (last 2 days)