Do your steers make the cut?

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************* said:
I would think that when buying a bull that you would want to keep that in mind. I rarely hear anyone mention the "daughters", you are right, they always talk about "steers". Well if you never advance the maternal side of your herd, you are filling a bucket with a hole in it.
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Now you are making sense. That's how I chase weaning weights. Retain good heifers to make good cows, and you'll see the results in the weaning weights.
 
I make more money buying and selling bred cows than raising heifers. It takes a long time to put a heifer into production, and even longer to see a profit off of her. Raising your own heifers is the best way to get cows that work for you. We pulled out of the GCA heifer sale this year because we just don't have the quality heifers to sell this year.
 
When you raise your own heifers, and they come from a top AI sire or really good herd bull, then you have a pretty good idea of what you are working with. I agree that it takes a long time to get that going, but buying replacement heifers is a very expensive part of the cattle business.

One option for those that are able to do it, is to use sexed semen. We use SAV Raindance sexed semen frequently. It's good stuff, I assure you. Anyway, if you have 20-30 cows/heifers and you AI them all to Raindance and assuming you successfully get them settled and calved out, then you essentially have replaced all your females in one breeding cycle. We have done this, and it works.

I had an old farmer out on the place a year ago and I told him about sexed semen, and his face curled up. I told him "I'm going to take those 20 heifers you see right there and produce 20 more females with them in one season" He told me "that can't be done, I don't believe it" Well I have almost pulled it off, and have invited him to come back and see the results.

By doing that, there are suddenly in a short amount of time roughly 40 females. do it one more time, breed the 20 original females again to SAV Raindance, and then breed the 20 new females to say a Connealy bull that is sexed from ST Genetics and in a few short years you have almost 70-80 females barring any big disasters, and assuming you are HIGHLY DISCIPLINED in not using a clean up bull. They are all young, high quality, and you obtained them for a fraction, a tiny fraction of the cost of buying them. However there is one VERY BIG problem with this idea, most people think 3-4 years is an eternity and they will not stick to doing this. Like I said, there is some discipline involved.
 
************* said:
When you raise your own heifers, and they come from a top AI sire or really good herd bull, then you have a pretty good idea of what you are working with. I agree that it takes a long time to get that going, but buying replacement heifers is a very expensive part of the cattle business.

One option for those that are able to do it, is to use sexed semen. We use SAV Raindance sexed semen frequently. It's good stuff, I assure you. Anyway, if you have 20-30 cows/heifers and you AI them all to Raindance and assuming you successfully get them settled and calved out, then you essentially have replaced all your females in one breeding cycle. We have done this, and it works.

I had an old farmer out on the place a year ago and I told him about sexed semen, and his face curled up. I told him "I'm going to take those 20 heifers you see right there and produce 20 more females with them in one season" He told me "that can't be done, I don't believe it" Well I have almost pulled it off, and have invited him to come back and see the results.

By doing that, there are suddenly in a short amount of time roughly 40 females. do it one more time, breed the 20 original females again to SAV Raindance, and then breed the 20 new females to say a Connealy bull that is sexed from ST Genetics and in a few short years you have almost 70-80 females barring any big disasters, and assuming you are HIGHLY DISCIPLINED in not using a clean up bull. They are all young, high quality, and you obtained them for a fraction, a tiny fraction of the cost of buying them. However there is one VERY BIG problem with this idea, most people think 3-4 years is an eternity and they will not stick to doing this. Like I said, there is some discipline involved.
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I don't understand the fraction of the cost of buying them. Sounds almost to good to be true to me, nothing is 100% or cheap. When you buy heifers you can pick and choose the heifers that you think are keepers. EPD'S don't always come out like what you think once the HD50K is done.
 
The original question was do your steers make the grade? I had an interesting conversation with my neighbor the other day. Some cattle drug dealer was trying to sell him something, saying it would improve how his calves graded. His reply was that his steers had won the local carcass contest 5 out of the last 8 years. Now some might say big deal you won that at the county fair. The thing is there are some of the big boys locally. Thomas Angus and Harrell Herefords come to mind. They support the 4H and FFA. And you know they would like one of their calves to win. Thomas runs over 1,000 register cows. And Harrell has something like 700. My neighbor runs good bulls on assorted range cows. But apparently they work. I helped sort through 350 of his calves. We sorted off replacement heifers, dink steers to be held over, and fair steers. The first sort we had 8 fair steers. He needed 5 out of this bunch. The only black hided steer that made the first cut didn't make the second cut. All 5 that he kept were Char cross steers. Three looked like they were out of black cows, one probably a Red Angus, and one I wouldn't bet on his linage. Would they make CAB? No, wrong color. But other than color I would be willing to bet they meet every other requirement to be CAB.
 
Dave said:
The original question was do your steers make the grade? I had an interesting conversation with my neighbor the other day. Some cattle drug dealer was trying to sell him something, saying it would improve how his calves graded. His reply was that his steers had won the local carcass contest 5 out of the last 8 years. Now some might say big deal you won that at the county fair. The thing is there are some of the big boys locally. Thomas Angus and Harrell Herefords come to mind. They support the 4H and FFA. And you know they would like one of their calves to win. Thomas runs over 1,000 register cows. And Harrell has something like 700. My neighbor runs good bulls on assorted range cows. But apparently they work. I helped sort through 350 of his calves. We sorted off replacement heifers, dink steers to be held over, and fair steers. The first sort we had 8 fair steers. He needed 5 out of this bunch. The only black hided steer that made the first cut didn't make the second cut. All 5 that he kept were Char cross steers. Three looked like they were out of black cows, one probably a Red Angus, and one I wouldn't bet on his linage. Would they make CAB? No, wrong color. But other than color I would be willing to bet they meet every other requirement to be CAB.
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Never heard of a Char with much marbling? That is not their strength.
 
Ok fellas now we are getting somewhere. Good Bulls, Good Cows, Good Grass, and Good Management is what it takes to make it in the cattle biz. I'm definitely not a BTO not even a plip in my area but I am trying to do my best to build a herd. There's no such thing as a magic bull that will solve all your problems, bottom line is it takes years to build a top cow herd. The main thing I'm interested in is weaning good size calves that once weaned convert feed to pounds. I could care less if a bull even has a name (grandkids love to name them though). I'm finally to the point were I need to start keeping reslly good heifers as replacements. I've always kept some but never reslly bred for them. I used to eat lunch pretty regularly with a man that AI'd cows for a living and talked with him quite a bit about using sexed semen. He said to give him a call when I was ready. He retired last year but told me hollar anytime so we'll see.
 
True Grit Farms said:
Dave said:
The original question was do your steers make the grade? I had an interesting conversation with my neighbor the other day. Some cattle drug dealer was trying to sell him something, saying it would improve how his calves graded. His reply was that his steers had won the local carcass contest 5 out of the last 8 years. Now some might say big deal you won that at the county fair. The thing is there are some of the big boys locally. Thomas Angus and Harrell Herefords come to mind. They support the 4H and FFA. And you know they would like one of their calves to win. Thomas runs over 1,000 register cows. And Harrell has something like 700. My neighbor runs good bulls on assorted range cows. But apparently they work. I helped sort through 350 of his calves. We sorted off replacement heifers, dink steers to be held over, and fair steers. The first sort we had 8 fair steers. He needed 5 out of this bunch. The only black hided steer that made the first cut didn't make the second cut. All 5 that he kept were Char cross steers. Three looked like they were out of black cows, one probably a Red Angus, and one I wouldn't bet on his linage. Would they make CAB? No, wrong color. But other than color I would be willing to bet they meet every other requirement to be CAB.
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Never heard of a Char with much marbling? That is not their strength.
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Not pure bred Charolais. These are cross bred calves. I see that Harrell Hereford and McKenzie Hereford (using Harrell bulls) won carcass of the year for Country Natural Beef. And on Thomas Angus website they list the AI bulls they use. It is something like 17 different bulls. And I will attest that they raise absolutely top drawer cattle. But it is still interesting that some raised in the hills cross bred calves won the carcass contest in their front yard 5 of the last 8 years. Feedlots should be lined up to buy his calves.
 
Crossbreeding is a wonderful thing. I sold a couple of mutts two years ago for 4H steers. One won the rate of gain award and the other won grand champion carcass. And no black hide, if you can imagine that.

edit: They were also out of heifers.
 
I'm not surprised at all about Charolais cross calves doing well. There is a large and long time Charolais outfit in Montana that has been feeding out quite a few of their calves for a long time.
Years ago I had a yearling Charolais bull that got his shoulder broke, he was a fairly expensive bull for the time period, so we kept him for a while to see if he would heal up and be anywhere normal with mobility again. he didn't so a neighbor took him for a beef. I remember him saying at the time that was the best beef he had eaten. The bull was still young and had been kept up and fed for several months.
Have a friend that has been in the Charolais business for probably over 50 years, they have always used their own beef. If it didn't turn out well I doubt they would have kept up doing it.
 
Manage for females and the steers will look after themselves. We know the best end of our April born calves left here as a load of 110, 542 lb steer calves Nov 2, 2013. They were sold private treaty to a feedlot 16 hours away. The manager called me on June 1 the following spring to let me know that e last 45 of those calves had left for the plant in mid May weighing 1458 lbs shrunk weight. I guess they did ok once something other than swamp grass was in front of them.
We have 2 loads of our own heifers in a backgrounding lot at present. They have been on feed there since Nov. 1 and Monday next they are going to weigh them. Plan on forward contracting these later next week for delivery in March. Will post what they are gaining when I know.
 
gcreekrch said:
Manage for females and the steers will look after themselves. We know the best end of our April born calves left here as a load of 110, 542 lb steer calves Nov 2, 2013. They were sold private treaty to a feedlot 16 hours away. The manager called me on June 1 the following spring to let me know that e last 45 of those calves had left for the plant in mid May weighing 1458 lbs shrunk weight. I guess they did ok once something other than swamp grass was in front of them.
We have 2 loads of our own heifers in a backgrounding lot at present. They have been on feed there since Nov. 1 and Monday next they are going to weigh them. Plan on forward contracting these later next week for delivery in March. Will post what they are gaining when I know.
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Wow sounds like you are raising some good calves with that kind of gain in the feedlot. Be interested to hear how the second group do. Any idea what they weighed when they went to the lot or what they are being fed?
 
Lucky said:
gcreekrch said:
Manage for females and the steers will look after themselves. We know the best end of our April born calves left here as a load of 110, 542 lb steer calves Nov 2, 2013. They were sold private treaty to a feedlot 16 hours away. The manager called me on June 1 the following spring to let me know that e last 45 of those calves had left for the plant in mid May weighing 1458 lbs shrunk weight. I guess they did ok once something other than swamp grass was in front of them.
We have 2 loads of our own heifers in a backgrounding lot at present. They have been on feed there since Nov. 1 and Monday next they are going to weigh them. Plan on forward contracting these later next week for delivery in March. Will post what they are gaining when I know.
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Wow sounds like you are raising some good calves with that kind of gain in the feedlot. Be interested to hear how the second group do. Any idea what they weighed when they went to the lot or what they are being fed?
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The heifer calves this year went in at 440 and are being fed a ration to gain 2 lbs per day. It has been mild and relatively dry at the lot this year so gains on other cattle there have been good. There are another 235 heifer calves with them that we bought weighing 496 on Nov 1

I have reports back from several bunches of our calves that have gone out over the years. Most guys that buy don't want to tell you how well they have done so we are happy with the usual, "They did fine and stayed healthy."

The light load of steer calves in 2015 went to a guy who backgrounds them and then goes to grass until Sept. The bunch he got were 130, 430 weight calves. They were hauled to a feedlot in Alberta and were limit fed there to gain 1.5 lbs per day. He sold 2/3 of them in Feb. because they got to 800 lbs in 110 days and were to heavy to go to grass with. The light end came back to BC in late April and were sold off good, hard grass in early Sept. weighing 1035 lbs.

Makes me happy to know our calves do their jobs well when they go to their next owners.
 
Average 30 to 40 head herds in this area will never have access to the information you have gcreek they just don't have and never will have the numbers or the market access to get that information.
 
gcreekrnch, this is good real world info. Your weaning weights seem on track as do your gains. Mind me asking what breed of cattle you run and what breed of bulls you are using? Sounds like you are doing the right things.
 
Lucky said:
gcreekrnch, this is good real world info. Your weaning weights seem on track as do your gains. Mind me asking what breed of cattle you run and what breed of bulls you are using? Sounds like you are doing the right things.
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Our cows are multi-cultural..... Red or Black Angus base but crossed up with Hereford, Gelbvieh or Simmental, There are 4 greys and a couple Char cross cows in the mix. The straight black coloured cows are managed separately and are bred Black Angus or Horned Hereford. The heifers are bred to sleep at night, low BW Angus bulls. This doesn't mean that we don't get up at night. We do, every two hours. First calf heifers go to a pasture together and are bred to moderate bulls for their second calf. The balance of reds and baldies go on another range with black or red bulls.

Our purchased bulls have been mostly sourced from one breeder for 25 years who has been very successful in linebreeding his cattle. The across breed uniformity in their 4 breed herd is almost unbelievable! We have purchased bulls elsewhere but have never been as happy with others. Only 18 of our 50 bulls were purchased at present, the balance were raised here out of what we consider our best cows and who knows what sire. My choice of bulls gets pretty expensive so we use those genetics to produce some here.

We are changing direction a bit and are adding some Charolais bulls into the mix this year. Hoping to find bulls that will calve relatively easy and add a few pounds to about 30% of the calf crop.
 
Red Bull Breeder said:
Average 30 to 40 head herds in this area will never have access to the information you have gcreek they just don't have and never will have the numbers or the market access to get that information.
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Sometimes a simple thank you and asking for follow up info goes a long way. I have thanked every purchaser of every animal for 40 years. If I know where they ended up, I phone the feedlot owner or manager and thank them. Contrary to belief, some of them are human too!!!

I was told once by a couple of buyers that if a group of calves is presented right, proper castration, proper dehorning, legible brands, not lousy, thrifty doing, uniform.... It is generally assumed that the genetics and vaccination programs are likely better than average also.
My son runs his 35 cow herd very similar to ours, is on his own and sells his calves separately from ours. His steers and heifers both sold in two groups this fall. They were all sired by one bull mind you but his cows are a bit multi cultural also. I think they calved last spring in 29 days. Can't get much more uniform than that on a small operation.
 
Gcreek most here won't even know who the buyer was. Half of them won't be at the sale when there calves sell. I sell to some people that buy at there farm. They are licensed bonded buys and brokers. We always visit a bit while the calve are sorted and weighed. They never fail to thank you for your business. They don't charge a commission only charge the check off dollars. Get you weigh tickets walk to the office and get your check.
 
Red Bull Breeder said:
Gcreek most here won't even know who the buyer was. Half of them won't be at the sale when there calves sell. I sell to some people that buy at there farm. They are licensed bonded buys and brokers. We always visit a bit while the calve are sorted and weighed. They never fail to thank you for your business. They don't charge a commission only charge the check off dollars. Get you weigh tickets walk to the office and get your check.
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We have sold cattle privately more times than otherwise. I still maintain that if you raised them, you should follow them to the auction and watch them sell. Thank the buyer, even if the derelict you brought in was the poorest animal at the sale. The buyer was still the highest bidder!
 

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