Do your steers make the cut?

[True Grit Farms]

http://beef.caes.uga.edu/programs/georgia-beef-challenge.html
We're blessed to have a lot of different cattle programs through UGA. Raven, I think marble quality is good on Simmental, but when fed out the same way Angus comes out ahead.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

http://beef.caes.uga.edu/programs/georgia-beef-challenge.html
We're blessed to have a lot of different cattle programs through UGA. Raven, I think marble quality is good on Simmental, but when fed out the same way Angus comes out ahead.

Thank you. Interesting program.

 

[Silver]

Whenever I'm in a restaurant looking for a good steak and they tell me they have Certified Angus I always ask just loud enough for those at the nearby tables to hear, if they have and non Angus beef, because I prefer a better eating experience. It's just a little game I like to play, and I enjoy the uncomfortable look of the server who never knows how to deal with this.

 

[CattleMan1920]

You may have a point in some cases about owners and managers and long term visions, but I think that you are not realizing the history and knowledge of Angus cattle of that family of Solid Rock Angus has. The manager happens to be an uncle of one of the owners. The manager and his family as well as his nephew have been in the cattle/Angus business quite a while. I bought my first Angus bull from the manager back in 97 or 98 and they had been in business for quite a while at that point. I also went to the Solid Rock farm and purchased a bull a few years ago. At that time I was told that they had several hundred commercial cows in addition to their sizeable registered herd. I have no idea what their breeding philosophy is but am confident that it is sound and well thought out. The manager is in my opinion one of the nicest people one could ever do business with. I was through commenting on this subject but when those folks program was questioned, I felt since knowing a little about it I should speak up on their behalf as others have for other programs.

Im glad you explained this on the thread. I did not say anything disparaging about Solid Rock Angus. What you posted was very informative. I get their sales catalogue and they seem to offer high CED, low BW genetics, which are in demand for sure in Kentucky. Their cattle look to be high quality.

I may have come off the wrong way, but I have a strong opinion on certain things, and I like to see owners who are heaviily involved in every aspect of their operation, the good, the bad, and the ugly. It makes a difference to see everything going on with the herd.

I wouldn't have much to say here if I had someone manage my operation and I stayed away other than random visits and sale day. If someone wants to do that it's their business, but I learn something every day, I'm in with the herd for everything that happens, we bale most of our own hay, fence to the best of our ability, we do as much as we can within reason, the vet is called only when absolutely necessary.

Does that make for better cattle? Who knows, it sure seems however to allow you to observe a lot more in my opinion.

It's said that mastery of nearly any subject can be had in 10 years of intensive immersion. When I see someone like Charles Cannon, who has been deeply involved with his herd for 67 years and is still going strong, I can only be in awe of what that man knows and what he sees when he looks at an animal. I'm a long ways from ever having his experience, I might never attain it, in fact I seriously doubt I will. That experience was gleaned by being hands on, and that can never be bought.

On a side note, he has always personally delivered all cattle that we have purchased, they come out of the trailer calmly and walk into the pasture as if they had been here all along. That docility is important to me and it happens when cattle are handled well.

 

[Ebenezer]

As for the exclusivity of SAV, absolutely they are rare cattle. Out of the entire Angus breed and the overall cattle herd in America, their sale is a DROP IN THE BUCKET! If you have one of the top 10 SAV bulls in any of their recent sales, you can officially call yourself a top dog in the cattle business.

About 40 SAV bulls in Bull Barn, one at Origen,, four at ABS, one at Select Sires, more at Genex, individuals selling semen, ... They are absolutely not rare. They are merely your preferred source. I have decades of AJs that seem to have a revolving door of preferred sources. Some come and some go. Part of the breeds interest in fads and how the genetics sort out.

I promise you that if I told you I had a homegrown bull and he was the best bull in the Angus breed, you would criticize him. It does not matter if one has an AI son or homegrown, nothing will ever meet your self established standards.

I totally disagree with your promise. My "standards" are: will the cattle work for commercial folks in our area.

Who the heck would ever have a reference point?

The bigger discriminator is the environment. Nobody really has a truly comparative basis in different environments. Been there, done that.

I can shoot a gun, but I'm no Wild Bill Hickok.

Go with a shotgun to get a wider pattern.

 

[Ky hills]

Im glad you explained this on the thread. I did not say anything disparaging about Solid Rock Angus. What you posted was very informative. I get their sales catalogue and they seem to offer high CED, low BW genetics, which are in demand for sure in Kentucky. Their cattle look to be high quality.

I may have come off the wrong way, but I have a strong opinion on certain things, and I like to see owners who are heaviily involved in every aspect of their operation, the good, the bad, and the ugly. It makes a difference to see everything going on with the herd.

I wouldn't have much to say here if I had someone manage my operation and I stayed away other than random visits and sale day. If someone wants to do that it's their business, but I learn something every day, I'm in with the herd for everything that happens, we bale most of our own hay, fence to the best of our ability, we do as much as we can within reason, the vet is called only when absolutely necessary.

Does that make for better cattle? Who knows, it sure seems however to allow you to observe a lot more in my opinion.

It's said that mastery of nearly any subject can be had in 10 years of intensive immersion. When I see someone like Charles Cannon, who has been deeply involved with his herd for 67 years and is still going strong, I can only be in awe of what that man knows and what he sees when he looks at an animal. I'm a long ways from ever having his experience, I might never attain it, in fact I seriously doubt I will. That experience was gleaned by being hands on, and that can never be bought.

On a side note, he has always personally delivered all cattle that we have purchased, they come out of the trailer calmly and walk into the pasture as if they had been here all along. That docility is important to me and it happens when cattle are handled well.

Branded, thank you for clarifying your position. I am in agreement that overall I like to see owners involved with the day to day operation of the farm, I also think that I'm most cases minute details are taken more to heart. That being said there are lots of seed stock operations that is n which owners are involved in other work and have to rely on managers to care for their herds. Cases in point would be Express Ranch, and Deer Valley Ranch to name a couple of successful ones. I can assure you that as far as Solid Rock Angus the manager puts his heart into his work, and does it as if it were his own. He is an uncle of one of the owners so it is in a sense a family outfit. I am confident that decisions are well discussed. The manager has been in the Angus business for many years not just since the advent of Solid Rock. Like I mentioned I have purchased two Bulls from him one of which was recent and from Solid Rock. He personally delivers the Bulls. N fact the last bull I purchased he loaded the bull as we were leaving and was at our farm minutes after we left theirs. Both of those Bulls were dog gentle. I kept one until over 4 yrs old he weighed 2080 lbs in good pasture condition when sold. The manager knows his cattle and can tell you the history of their cattle. They are raised in real world conditions, with having several hundred cows. The Bulls were gentle and came to feed but were in what I would call good pasture condition not thin and not over conditioned.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Branded, thank you for clarifying your position. I am in agreement that overall I like to see owners involved with the day to day operation of the farm, I also think that I'm most cases minute details are taken more to heart. That being said there are lots of seed stock operations that is n which owners are involved in other work and have to rely on managers to care for their herds. Cases in point would be Express Ranch, and Deer Valley Ranch to name a couple of successful ones. I can assure you that as far as Solid Rock Angus the manager puts his heart into his work, and does it as if it were his own. He is an uncle of one of the owners so it is in a sense a family outfit. I am confident that decisions are well discussed. The manager has been in the Angus business for many years not just since the advent of Solid Rock. Like I mentioned I have purchased two Bulls from him one of which was recent and from Solid Rock. He personally delivers the Bulls. N fact the last bull I purchased he loaded the bull as we were leaving and was at our farm minutes after we left theirs. Both of those Bulls were dog gentle. I kept one until over 4 yrs old he weighed 2080 lbs in good pasture condition when sold. The manager knows his cattle and can tell you the history of their cattle. They are raised in real world conditions, with having several hundred cows. The Bulls were gentle and came to feed but were in what I would call good pasture condition not thin and not over conditioned.

Thumbs up from me, for what it's worth. Again, thank you for explaining their operation.

 

[Lucky]

Branded, I haven't read everything you have posted but have read enough to have a few questions for you.

1. If you truly believe in the Angus genetics why in the world aren't you in the yearling business? Those angus sired calves out of top bulls should put on weight like you wouldn't believe and would definitely get the value added tag.

2. You talked about buying land earlier to spread your operation, but you can't figure a way to make it pay. At the prices you've talked about you can get for Heifers and Bulls I wouldn't be affraid to go a couple mil in debt on land. I know you say commercial banks won't lend but Ag Credit Banks will and they are in every state. Don't use the 20% down excuse, I would like a real answer.

3. Why should I use Angus bulls in my operation? I've bought some good ones and still don't understand the hype. I've honestly had my best luck crossing good Hereford bulls with crossbred Angus/Brangus type cows.

I'm not knocking anything you say but for the life of me can't understand how a man can tell a commercial cattleman to use his bulls when he doesn't run yearlings himself. As they say the proof is in the puddin'. Please convince me, I've travled to buy good bulls before.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Branded, I haven't read everything you have posted but have read enough to have a few questions for you.

Fair enough

1. If you truly believe in the Angus genetics why in the world aren't you in the yearling business? Those angus sired calves out of top bulls should put on weight like you wouldn't believe and would definitely get the value added tag.

I think what is somewhat of an issue is that we are not a large enough operation yet to where an annual production sale would make sense, as far as bulls. We are using a lot of sexed semen and building females at the moment. As I said on an earlier post, we will probably have a production sale with yearlings, but we want it to be strictly sons of AI bulls, everyone tested fully for recessives, and all scoring high on BSE. The sale would be in the 30-40 head range, no grandsons, or great grandsons allowed, just direct AI sons. That might be a possibility in 2020. If we do that, it would be sons out of sires that don't usually show up if ever show up in the sale ring, at least in Kentucky. We have a VERY NICE SAV Harvestor son that we are going to put to use at 12 months of age, which for him is in March of this year. We will of course have sons from him I assume, and they will probably not have a CED that makes many producers happy around here. They will be sold privately, and not at a production sale or possibly steered. Daughters will be kept and AI'd with sexed female semen

2. You talked about buying land earlier to spread your operation, but you can't figure a way to make it pay. At the prices you've talked about you can get for Heifers and Bulls I wouldn't be affraid to go a couple mil in debt on land. I know you say commercial banks won't lend but Ag Credit Banks will and they are in every state. Don't use the 20% down excuse, I would like a real answer.

Banks aren't interested in asset-based lending. They fear if they loan against your herd or your property that they might end up owning it and having to sell it. Farm Credit does not view the future of the cattle business in the same eyes that I do, their conservatism in lending is a sign of where they see the overall agricultural complex headed. They know hard times are coming. A cow is a cow to Farm Credit and the banks. they do not differentiate between a cow you would pound out and a $250k Rita cow out of top operation

3. Why should I use Angus bulls in my operation? I've bought some good ones and still don't understand the hype. I've honestly had my best luck crossing good Hereford bulls with crossbred Angus/Brangus type cows.

Why not?, Angus is a brand, tell me one sale in the state of Kentucky that will bring in as much money as the top Registered Angus sales. Fancy black steers always top the market. What if you produced Fancy Black that weaned off at 205 at 750-800 pounds and had a couple of semi truck loads. Do you think you would be crying the blues when you got your check? Angus is big business, no offense at all with the other breeds you mentioned, but they are barely in the running. Boyd's switched to Angus for a reason. Angus has a massive database of data, and if you know how to use it, then you have money in the bank

I'm not knocking anything you say but for the life of me can't understand how a man can tell a commercial cattleman to use his bulls when he doesn't run yearlings himself. As they say the proof is in the puddin'. Please convince me, I've travled to buy good bulls before.

I have yearlings in the pipeline from SAV Harvestor, SAV International, and SAV President. That's a dream team. I also have Unmistakable bulls from McCumber. I will probably use them on older cows that we have, 10 year old plus cows. The "puddin" I prefer is direct sons, not a business of grandsons and great grandsons. Nothing against that business model, but the further you get away from the AI sire, the more surprises you can encounter. Would you rather own a son of Hoover Dam or a great, great grandson? Lots can happen in the fog of war. A lot of people fool themselves into thinking that they can breed their own SAV President, or Hoover Dam, or Baldridge Colonel, that's delusional in my opinion, and a waste of effort. If you are a busy commercial producer and you buy a Colonel son or a President son, then you are putting some serious genetics into your commercial herd for a fraction of the price of the AI sire, and you are only one generation out. If the AI son has been Angus Source or HD50K tested and had the genetic bundle testing completed and is free of recessives which our sons are, then that is icing on the cake. You can put that bull to work, knowing he is not bringing surprises into your herd, or at least the bull part of the equation is handled. On top of that there is a far better market for your heifers if you can tell someone. "These 30 heifers were sired by a direct son of SAV President" That's quality right there, versus "These are great, great granddaughters of some no name bull that has never been tested". It seems like common sense but it's glossed over by many producers, to their peril. Offer up a registered Angus granddaughter of Hoover Dam versus a homegrown special from unknown origin and see which one brings more money. That's basic economics.

 

[Silver]

Why not?, Angus is a brand, tell me one sale in the state of Kentucky that will bring in as much money as the top Registered Angus sales. Fancy black steers always top the market. What if you produced Fancy Black that weaned off at 205 at 750-800 pounds and had a couple of semi truck loads. Do you think you would be crying the blues when you got your check? Angus is big business, no offense at all with the other breeds you mentioned, but they are barely in the running. Boyd's switched to Angus for a reason. Angus has a massive database of data, and if you know how to use it, then you have money in the bank

Well, what comes around tends to go around. I would certainly argue your point about fancy black steers topping the market. In these parts anyway. They had a few seasons in the sun, but it appears to be waning now. Personally, I've never seen straight angus steers top the market, mostly because in these parts they are never the heaviest.
I asked two buyers last year what the problem was with the straight bred angus steers. Both guys told me pretty much the same story. Angus feed well enough, but when an angus steer is fat you have to slaughter, every day you don't is money down the drain. All you get is a steer the same size with more fat on it. But an exotic or exotic cross you can continue to feed after the steer is finished, and even though the steer is finished it will continue to grow and be profitable for a time. So in an uncertain market they tend to shy away from straight bred angus.
I like a little angus in my cow herd, I can definitely see some benefits. I figure 1/2 angus in a cow is plenty, that will give me a calf that will be 3/8 angus on the higher end and that's plenty for me.
I spent way too many years watching the black angus cattle taking a beating on sale day to jump on that wagon.

 

[Lucky]

Branded, I haven't read everything you have posted but have read enough to have a few questions for you.

Fair enough

1. If you truly believe in the Angus genetics why in the world aren't you in the yearling business? Those angus sired calves out of top bulls should put on weight like you wouldn't believe and would definitely get the value added tag.

I think what is somewhat of an issue is that we are not a large enough operation yet to where an annual production sale would make sense, as far as bulls. We are using a lot of sexed semen and building females at the moment. As I said on an earlier post, we will probably have a production sale with yearlings, but we want it to be strictly sons of AI bulls, everyone tested fully for recessives, and all scoring high on BSE. The sale would be in the 30-40 head range, no grandsons, or great grandsons allowed, just direct AI sons. That might be a possibility in 2020. If we do that, it would be sons out of sires that don't usually show up if ever show up in the sale ring, at least in Kentucky. We have a VERY NICE SAV Harvestor son that we are going to put to use at 12 months of age, which for him is in March of this year. We will of course have sons from him I assume, and they will probably not have a CED that makes many producers happy around here. They will be sold privately, and not at a production sale or possibly steered. Daughters will be kept and AI'd with sexed female semen

2. You talked about buying land earlier to spread your operation, but you can't figure a way to make it pay. At the prices you've talked about you can get for Heifers and Bulls I wouldn't be affraid to go a couple mil in debt on land. I know you say commercial banks won't lend but Ag Credit Banks will and they are in every state. Don't use the 20% down excuse, I would like a real answer.

Banks aren't interested in asset-based lending. They fear if they loan against your herd or your property that they might end up owning it and having to sell it. Farm Credit does not view the future of the cattle business in the same eyes that I do, their conservatism in lending is a sign of where they see the overall agricultural complex headed. They know hard times are coming. A cow is a cow to Farm Credit and the banks. they do not differentiate between a cow you would pound out and a $250k Rita cow out of top operation

3. Why should I use Angus bulls in my operation? I've bought some good ones and still don't understand the hype. I've honestly had my best luck crossing good Hereford bulls with crossbred Angus/Brangus type cows.

Why not?, Angus is a brand, tell me one sale in the state of Kentucky that will bring in as much money as the top Registered Angus sales. Fancy black steers always top the market. What if you produced Fancy Black that weaned off at 205 at 750-800 pounds and had a couple of semi truck loads. Do you think you would be crying the blues when you got your check? Angus is big business, no offense at all with the other breeds you mentioned, but they are barely in the running. Boyd's switched to Angus for a reason. Angus has a massive database of data, and if you know how to use it, then you have money in the bank

I'm not knocking anything you say but for the life of me can't understand how a man can tell a commercial cattleman to use his bulls when he doesn't run yearlings himself. As they say the proof is in the puddin'. Please convince me, I've travled to buy good bulls before.

I have yearlings in the pipeline from SAV Harvestor, SAV International, and SAV President. That's a dream team. I also have Unmistakable bulls from McCumber. I will probably use them on older cows that we have, 10 year old plus cows. The "puddin" I prefer is direct sons, not a business of grandsons and great grandsons. Nothing against that business model, but the further you get away from the AI sire, the more surprises you can encounter. Would you rather own a son of Hoover Dam or a great, great grandson? Lots can happen in the fog of war. A lot of people fool themselves into thinking that they can breed their own SAV President, or Hoover Dam, or Baldridge Colonel, that's delusional in my opinion, and a waste of effort. If you are a busy commercial producer and you buy a Colonel son or a President son, then you are putting some serious genetics into your commercial herd for a fraction of the price of the AI sire, and you are only one generation out. If the AI son has been Angus Source or HD50K tested and had the genetic bundle testing completed and is free of recessives which our sons are, then that is icing on the cake. You can put that bull to work, knowing he is not bringing surprises into your herd, or at least the bull part of the equation is handled. On top of that there is a far better market for your heifers if you can tell someone. "These 30 heifers were sired by a direct son of SAV President" That's quality right there, versus "These are great, great granddaughters of some no name bull that has never been tested". It seems like common sense but it's glossed over by many producers, to their peril. Offer up a registered Angus granddaughter of Hoover Dam versus a homegrown special from unknown origin and see which one brings more money. That's basic economics.

I don't know how to answer below the quotes so here we go.

1. I'm talking about running yearlings not a bull sale. You know the kind of cattle that don't have nuts and get fed everyday to gain weight and be sent to a feed yard. That's what commercial cattleman are interested in. If you have such a great pen of bulls you should be doing this as a sideline for easy cash. Plus your customers could see the results of what a high powered bull would do.

2. I'm calling BS on your answer. I've bought land and am looking at a couple hundred more acres now. Banks loan money it's what they do. Besides that if you're as profitable as you say give them a business plan. It's not hard at all.

3. 205 days 750-800# calves. This is where the yearlings come into play. Go buy you some good crossbred blacks breed them to your bulls and let us know the results. You don't have to buy a 1,000 head 75 or so will do. No supplements or creep feeding these cattle they live off what the ranch has to offer. If it works you'll be a wealthy man in no time.

I really don't care about all the hype and name dropping of high powered bulls and neither do 90% of commercial operators, we care about pounds on the ground at 205 days and feed conversion for the next 60-150 based on your operation.

I had a SAV net worth son out of a $7,000 angus cow several years ago. Paid way too much for him as a 16 month old. He was a dud. Never grew off right and had calves that just weren't all that. He was the going thing at the time though. Now the two homegrown Hereford bulls I bought a couple years ago and the Angus bull I bought from my neighbor as a 2 yr old they are men. Big stout bulls that don't fall apart when taken off feed and can handle the heat. Calves are looking good too.

Stop the name dropping and prove to me that your bulls or any angus bulls will add 200 pounds to the 550 pound stattic weaning weight. It's been stuck at 550# for years.

We buy a case of CAB steaks (ribeyes) about every month. They are good and I prefer them over most grocery store beef. I can get better at the butcher though.

 

[Bright Raven]

LUCKY

You ask another User a question - nay, 3 questions. They provide you a detailed response and you don't show any appreciation for their effort!!!!!!

Your response is a RUDE critique of their response???? To a point of telling them how they should run their operation.

Well, you sure ain't no "Cowboy". My advice to James is to totally ignore you.

 

[Lucky]

LUCKY

You ask another User a question - nay, 3 questions. They provide you a detailed response and you don't show any appreciation for their effort!!!!!!

Your response is a RUDE critique of their response???? To a point of telling them how they should run their operation.

Well, you sure ain't no "Cowboy". My advice to James is to totally ignore you.

You are probably right Raven.

Branded I apologize if I was a little rough with my questions I do appreciate yout input and you seem like a knowledgeable guy. The seedstock guys constantly pimping what they sell but not doing anything themselves but running 20-40 head gets old. It's my opinion as well as many others on this board it seems that the Angus Assocation has done the commercial cattleman a huge disservice. All you have to say to my line of questions is simple answers though.

1. Not interested yearlings/ stockers are too risky.

2. I would like to expand but not interested in going into a ton of debt at this stage.

3. Refer to #1

Instead a got the run around and Angus pimping talk.

Raven I "definitely ain't no cowboy". Thinking about trying a Simbrah Bull though so might outta tune up my skills. At least the rope won't give me blisters.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Why not?, Angus is a brand, tell me one sale in the state of Kentucky that will bring in as much money as the top Registered Angus sales. Fancy black steers always top the market. What if you produced Fancy Black that weaned off at 205 at 750-800 pounds and had a couple of semi truck loads. Do you think you would be crying the blues when you got your check? Angus is big business, no offense at all with the other breeds you mentioned, but they are barely in the running. Boyd's switched to Angus for a reason. Angus has a massive database of data, and if you know how to use it, then you have money in the bank

Well, what comes around tends to go around. I would certainly argue your point about fancy black steers topping the market. In these parts anyway. They had a few seasons in the sun, but it appears to be waning now. Personally, I've never seen straight angus steers top the market, mostly because in these parts they are never the heaviest.
I asked two buyers last year what the problem was with the straight bred angus steers. Both guys told me pretty much the same story. Angus feed well enough, but when an angus steer is fat you have to slaughter, every day you don't is money down the drain. All you get is a steer the same size with more fat on it. But an exotic or exotic cross you can continue to feed after the steer is finished, and even though the steer is finished it will continue to grow and be profitable for a time. So in an uncertain market they tend to shy away from straight bred angus.
I like a little angus in my cow herd, I can definitely see some benefits. I figure 1/2 angus in a cow is plenty, that will give me a calf that will be 3/8 angus on the higher end and that's plenty for me.
I spent way too many years watching the black angus cattle taking a beating on sale day to jump on that wagon.

Our markets are worlds apart is seems. Here anything that is not black or at least BWF brings less at the stockyard.

 

[Lazy M]

Lucky does make a good point that it would be valuable for Branded or any seedstock producer to have real world commercial data to support their bulls performance in commercial herds. They wouldn't need to buy land and create their own test though as I think they could just reach out to their bull customers to capture testimonials and sale barn weights and prices of their bull's calves. To take it another step, they could even follow the lead of some of the larger operations and offer a buyback program to their customer's steer calves and then retain ownership of the calves at a feed yard.. then they'd have carcass data too.
Another solution would be if any fellow CT members that offer seed stock want to lend me your very best bulls, I'll use the bulls on my herd and provide you as much data as you want.. :welcome:

 

[Bright Raven]

Lucky does make a good point that it would be valuable for Branded or any seedstock producer to have real world commercial data to support their bulls performance in commercial herds. They wouldn't need to buy land and create their own test though as I think they could just reach out to their bull customers to capture testimonials and sale barn weights and prices of their bull's calves. To take it another step, they could even follow the lead of some of the larger operations and offer a buyback program of their customers steer calves and then retain ownership of the calves at a feed yard.. then they'd have carcass data too.
Another solution would be if any fellow CT members that offer seed stock want to lend me your very best bulls, I'll use the bulls on my herd and provide you as much data as you want.. :welcome:

I would have rented Gimli to you, but no, you wanted him for FREE. :hide:

 

[True Grit Farms]

LUCKY

You ask another User a question - nay, 3 questions. They provide you a detailed response and you don't show any appreciation for their effort!!!!!!

Your response is a RUDE critique of their response???? To a point of telling them how they should run their operation.

Well, you sure ain't no "Cowboy". My advice to James is to totally ignore you.

You are probably right Raven.

Branded I apologize if I was a little rough with my questions I do appreciate yout input and you seem like a knowledgeable guy. The seedstock guys constantly pimping what they sell but not doing anything themselves but running 20-40 head gets old. It's my opinion as well as many others on this board it seems that the Angus Assocation has done the commercial cattleman a huge disservice. All you have to say to my line of questions is simple answers though.

1. Not interested yearlings/ stockers are too risky.

2. I would like to expand but not interested in going into a ton of debt at this stage.

3. Refer to #1

Instead a got the run around and Angus pimping talk.

Raven I "definitely ain't no cowboy". Thinking about trying a Simbrah Bull though so might outta tune up my skills. At least the rope won't give me blisters.

I think your answers and questions were fine myself. It's called walking the talk. If someone could produce a bull that would add 200 lbs to your calves on the same nutrition he'd be rich overnight. But in all fairness any terminal bull including Angus will add growth. Angus has gone down on birthweights and it's affected the terminal side. Simmental is following right along like a good puppy dog. Brahman anything for terminal is had to beat as long as you don't retain ownership.

 

[Lazy M]

Lucky does make a good point that it would be valuable for Branded or any seedstock producer to have real world commercial data to support their bulls performance in commercial herds. They wouldn't need to buy land and create their own test though as I think they could just reach out to their bull customers to capture testimonials and sale barn weights and prices of their bull's calves. To take it another step, they could even follow the lead of some of the larger operations and offer a buyback program of their customers steer calves and then retain ownership of the calves at a feed yard.. then they'd have carcass data too.
Another solution would be if any fellow CT members that offer seed stock want to lend me your very best bulls, I'll use the bulls on my herd and provide you as much data as you want.. :welcome:

I would have rented Gimli to you, but no, you wanted him for FREE. :hide:

Just trying to raise your operation to the next level..

 

[Bright Raven]

Lucky does make a good point that it would be valuable for Branded or any seedstock producer to have real world commercial data to support their bulls performance in commercial herds. They wouldn't need to buy land and create their own test though as I think they could just reach out to their bull customers to capture testimonials and sale barn weights and prices of their bull's calves. To take it another step, they could even follow the lead of some of the larger operations and offer a buyback program of their customers steer calves and then retain ownership of the calves at a feed yard.. then they'd have carcass data too.
Another solution would be if any fellow CT members that offer seed stock want to lend me your very best bulls, I'll use the bulls on my herd and provide you as much data as you want.. :welcome:

I would have rented Gimli to you, but no, you wanted him for FREE. :hide:

Just trying to raise your operation to the next level..

I appreciate that. :cboy:

 

[Lazy M]

I would have rented Gimli to you, but no, you wanted him for FREE. :hide:

Just trying to raise your operation to the next level..

I appreciate that. :cboy:

Together we could have made Gimli into the hottest young bull in the Sim breed.. but, alas, you lacked foresight and had to demand payment. :roll: