Do your steers make the cut?

[True Grit Farms]

If you knew anything about shorthorn cattle here in the states you would know that there is very few breeding for anything but the show ring. Your not in Australia.

https://cattlerange.com/listings/smallwoode900/1-reg-shorthorn-bull-central-ga/
Had to pull 12 out of 14 calves. But they do excellent in the show ring.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Big birth weights and just a few defects to check for. But as long as it has a chance to win a show its all good.

 

[littletom]

I'm with bigfoot how do you have a relationship with cab or sell to cab? You can't be friends with prime either

 

[Lazy M]

We have managed to have a herd completely free of recessives, I would be concerned about reintroducing a potential carrier that has not been tested. This is not a vote of no confidence in our clients, but none that I know of DNA test their progeny, not even with a basic Genemax test.

Maybe I could be considered too strict, but I don't want animals with the chance for birth defects. I have not had anything born for many years that was deformed. I've had a stillborn freemartin pair out of a Baldridge Colonel AI, but that's it.

I had someone tell me this recently "people think that steers should be your lower quality animals, but that doesn't make sense to me, I think steers should be as high of quality as you can possibly produce if that is what you are offering" I obviously would not want to steer a perfectly good Hoover Dam son that could be registered, because he would sell in a minute, but I once spoke with an out of state auctioneer and he told me "if you had 25 Hoover Dam steers out of Angus cows, I could get you absolute top dollar for them, and they would sell in a heartbeat"

If you figure that you wean them at 205 and finish them off for 30 days, then you could probably sell them for $1200 a piece, that is $30k for about 8 months work. But if you had 25 Hoover Dam sons and auctioned them at Bluegrass in a sale as yearlings to 14 months, you would probably average at least $2750 on the low end. That's about $70K for keeping them intact and holding them for about another 6 months or so. That's a sizable difference in profits and hence the reason it's hard to justify cutting them.

I'm serious when I say this, please tell me if my reasoning above is incorrect?

Your estimates are too high in this market for both scenarios: you'd receive around $1000/hd with the steers and maybe average $2200/hd with the bulls in a special sales auction.

I'm getting my data from the Bluegrass Stockyards sales results and as far as Kentucky is concerned around 800 registered Angus bulls sold last year, ones that were recorded by AAA at least, and they brought on average of around $2750. Many sold above that amount. You wouldn't buy much if any at Boyd's under $3k.

I wouldn't have much confidence in a Angus bull that sells at $2k or below.

I can back up my data with actual sales, where are you getting your numbers?

You're right; cheapest bull I bought from Boyd's was $3100. Most have been around $4.5-5k. No offense, but you ain't Boyd's. Went to a pretty big sale at CKAA auction this past weekend. Nice yearling bulls averaged $2100.

 

[Lazy M]

Your estimates are too high in this market for both scenarios: you'd receive around $1000/hd with the steers and maybe average $2200/hd with the bulls in a special sales auction.

I'm getting my data from the Bluegrass Stockyards sales results and as far as Kentucky is concerned around 800 registered Angus bulls sold last year, ones that were recorded by AAA at least, and they brought on average of around $2750. Many sold above that amount. You wouldn't buy much if any at Boyd's under $3k.

I wouldn't have much confidence in a Angus bull that sells at $2k or below.

I can back up my data with actual sales, where are you getting your numbers?

You're right; cheapest bull I bought from Boyd's was $3100. Most have been around $4.5-5k. No offense, but you ain't Boyd's. Went to a pretty big sale at CKAA auction this past weekend. Nice yearling bulls averaged $2100.

To clarify: if Boyd sold 25 bulls in a special sale at Bluegrass, they'd probably avg $3k+ but you must realize that Boyd's name will add considerable name value to the bulls

 

[Lazy M]

I'm getting my data from the Bluegrass Stockyards sales results and as far as Kentucky is concerned around 800 registered Angus bulls sold last year, ones that were recorded by AAA at least, and they brought on average of around $2750. Many sold above that amount. You wouldn't buy much if any at Boyd's under $3k.

I wouldn't have much confidence in a Angus bull that sells at $2k or below.

I can back up my data with actual sales, where are you getting your numbers?

You're right; cheapest bull I bought from Boyd's was $3100. Most have been around $4.5-5k. No offense, but you ain't Boyd's. Went to a pretty big sale at CKAA auction this past weekend. Nice yearling bulls averaged $2100.

To clarify: if Boyd sold 25 bulls in a special sale at Bluegrass, they'd probably avg $3k+ but you must realize that Boyd's name will add considerable name value to the bulls and draw a bigger crowd

 

[Silver]

I'm just a little commercial guy, but I have to say I'm a little mystified as to why AI is necessarily so much better than natural service. After all, that straw came from someones bull. There are plenty of top notch bulls out there being bred by folks that know what they are doing whose semen will never be in a catalog but will be every bit as good or better than what comes in a straw. Dad did the AI thing years ago, and also bought high dollar bulls and kept a registered herd to sell bulls from and for his own use. In the end he realized that what he was producing himself was at least as good as what he was paying top dollar for so gave up on it. I know I'm talking commercial cattle here, but from what I've seen commercial cattle have the opportunity to be far better performers than their registered counterparts.

 

[Ky hills]

You're right; cheapest bull I bought from Boyd's was $3100. Most have been around $4.5-5k. No offense, but you ain't Boyd's. Went to a pretty big sale at CKAA auction this past weekend. Nice yearling bulls averaged $2100.

To clarify: if Boyd sold 25 bulls in a special sale at Bluegrass, they'd probably avg $3k+ but you must realize that Boyd's name will add considerable name value to the bulls and draw a bigger crowd

Lazy M, I wasn't at that sale, but have been to quite a few there, and have observed similar scenarios. I have always thought that you could get some pretty good bulls there for a fair price. I agree with you about Boyd, He is in on a level all his own, as far as registered cattle breeders in KY. There are several other folks that have built up some good names in the business, and have some good sales but no other that I can think of are as Nationally known as Boyd or have as many bulls in AI studs. Name means so much in the registered business, you can take two very similar animals bred the same way, and the one with the best known prefix in front of its name will always outsell the other by a wide margin.
The most recent bull I have bought was an AI sired bull by Boyd Ft. Knox, I did not buy him from Boyds nor did I pay what he would have brought at one of Boyd's sales. Nothing against Boyd at all, in fact I have always wanted to go to one of his sales at the farm. Did go to one years ago one evening at the Maysville stockyards.

 

[CattleMan1920]

You're right; cheapest bull I bought from Boyd's was $3100. Most have been around $4.5-5k. No offense, but you ain't Boyd's. Went to a pretty big sale at CKAA auction this past weekend. Nice yearling bulls averaged $2100.

To clarify: if Boyd sold 25 bulls in a special sale at Bluegrass, they'd probably avg $3k+ but you must realize that Boyd's name will add considerable name value to the bulls and draw a bigger crowd

No offense taken, but you have no clue what we have on the ground, or what is yet to calve this spring. We had the very first SAV President calves on the ground in Kentucky, we had the first SAV Raindance calves on the ground in Kentucky. We have SAV Elation calves coming soon, they will absolutely be the first on the ground in Kentucky. That's not exactly slumming it.

Our cows are from the following cow families, Miss Burgess, Queen Mother, Blueblood Lady, Pride, Evergreen, Eurotia, Edella, Joy Erica, and Elba.

We have almost 10 percent of the DNA proven SAV Raindance calves, daughters at that, in the AAA registry with more coming in the next couple of months.

We have owned registered Angus for a much, much longer time than the majority of Angus operations in Kentucky. Not to mention our number of registered animals puts us in the top 10% of the registered Angus herds in the state of Kentucky . Don't trust me? check with Angus who recognized us with the Historic Angus Award last year. That's something that takes documentation to prove. The majority of our herd was built from the ground up, not bought.

Charlie Boyd has been an absolute gentlemen and friend to us, and has offered advice several times, he is not competition to us at all, nor is Charles Cannon of Stone Gate, who is also a good friend of ours. Neither operation breed to the sires we use, they have their thing we have ours.

The only people we compete with is ourselves. We like rare Angus cattle, and have plenty of them. Answer this for me, we will have a couple of SAV President sons available for service by this fall, how many are floating around for sale? How many SAV Raindance daughters are at the sales, yes, there are a few and they aren't exactly cheap. We also have SAV President daughters. Those names might not mean jack squat to you, but to others they do. Our sons from a Stone Gate bull have brought $3k-3500, and we are consistent with that. Our AI sons are more expensive.

Right now we have a really nice Connealy Capitalist daughter settled to SAV President. Again, that may not mean anything to you, but if that calf successfully hits the ground, how many of those will exist? We aren't trying to sell big volume, never have. If we do decide to have a production sale soon it would be only AI sons, no grandsons or mystery bulls from the cleanup sire. Nothing wrong with that, but we want to have a more unique sale, if the demand is there we will do it. Selling privately is a better experience in my opinion. I saw where Spur Angus had an ad in the Angus Journal recently doing the same thing.

If you want to get together soon I would be happy to show you what we have available for sale.

 

[True Grit Farms]

To clarify: if Boyd sold 25 bulls in a special sale at Bluegrass, they'd probably avg $3k+ but you must realize that Boyd's name will add considerable name value to the bulls and draw a bigger crowd

No offense taken, but you have no clue what we have on the ground, or what is yet to calve this spring. We had the very first SAV President calves on the ground in Kentucky, we had the first SAV Raindance calves on the ground in Kentucky. We have SAV Elation calves coming soon, they will absolutely be the first on the ground in Kentucky. That's not exactly slumming it.

Our cows are from the following cow families, Miss Burgess, Queen Mother, Blueblood Lady, Pride, Evergreen, Eurotia, Edella, Joy Erica, and Elba.

We have almost 10 percent of the DNA proven SAV Raindance calves, daughters at that, in the AAA registry with more coming in the next couple of months.

We have owned registered Angus for a much, much longer time than the majority of Angus operations in Kentucky. Not to mention our number of registered animals puts us in the top 10% of the registered Angus herds in the state of Kentucky . Don't trust me? check with Angus who recognized us with the Historic Angus Award last year. That's something that takes documentation to prove. The majority of our herd was built from the ground up, not bought.

Charlie Boyd has been an absolute gentlemen and friend to us, and has offered advice several times, he is not competition to us at all, nor is Charles Cannon of Stone Gate, who is also a good friend of ours. Neither operation breed to the sires we use, they have their thing we have ours.

The only people we compete with is ourselves. We like rare Angus cattle, and have plenty of them. Answer this for me, we will have a couple of SAV President sons available for service by this fall, how many are floating around for sale? How many SAV Raindance daughters are at the sales, yes, there are a few and they aren't exactly cheap. We also have SAV President daughters. Those names might not mean jack squat to you, but to others they do. Our sons from a Stone Gate bull have brought $3k-3500, and we are consistent with that. Our AI sons are more expensive.

Right now we have a really nice Connealy Capitalist daughter settled to SAV President. Again, that may not mean anything to you, but if that calf successfully hits the ground, how many of those will exist? We aren't trying to sell big volume, never have. If we do decide to have a production sale soon it would be only AI sons, no grandsons or mystery bulls from the cleanup sire. Nothing wrong with that, but we want to have a more unique sale, if the demand is there we will do it. Selling privately is a better experience in my opinion. I saw where Spur Angus had an ad in the Angus Journal recently doing the same thing.

If you want to get together soon I would be happy to show you what we have available for sale.

Here's a good UGA bull sale coming up next month. Should be the kind you'd be interested in. I've never been a big numbers or names guy, but a lot of folks breed that way. Branded, I assume your trying to hit a home run with a couple of these up and coming matings to get some embryos out of?
http://beef.caes.uga.edu/programs/focus-on-epds-sale.html

 

[Ebenezer]

Our sons from a Stone Gate bull have brought $3k-3500, and we are consistent with that. Our AI sons are more expensive.

Why were your bulls for sale on the internet in Oct for $2500?

Anyone who sells bulls within your range of customers is a competitor including all that you mention for name recognition. You're just promoting here and anywhere else, a different or more shiny widget. The actual truth, is that anytime you mention your competition as your sources you are telling folks where to go to get the real seed stock. Promotion is a double edged sword to constantly mention other operations unless you can point out faults for a negative type of advertising.

 

[Lazy M]

To clarify: if Boyd sold 25 bulls in a special sale at Bluegrass, they'd probably avg $3k+ but you must realize that Boyd's name will add considerable name value to the bulls and draw a bigger crowd

Lazy M, I wasn't at that sale, but have been to quite a few there, and have observed similar scenarios. I have always thought that you could get some pretty good bulls there for a fair price. I agree with you about Boyd, He is in on a level all his own, as far as registered cattle breeders in KY. There are several other folks that have built up some good names in the business, and have some good sales but no other that I can think of are as Nationally known as Boyd or have as many bulls in AI studs. Name means so much in the registered business, you can take two very similar animals bred the same way, and the one with the best known prefix in front of its name will always outsell the other by a wide margin.
The most recent bull I have bought was an AI sired bull by Boyd Ft. Knox, I did not buy him from Boyds nor did I pay what he would have brought at one of Boyd's sales. Nothing against Boyd at all, in fact I have always wanted to go to one of his sales at the farm. Did go to one years ago one evening at the Maysville stockyards.

I like the Boyd's and think they have good stock. Having said that I think that you probably pay at least 3-500 extra at one of their sales due to their name value.

 

[Lazy M]

To clarify: if Boyd sold 25 bulls in a special sale at Bluegrass, they'd probably avg $3k+ but you must realize that Boyd's name will add considerable name value to the bulls and draw a bigger crowd

No offense taken, but you have no clue what we have on the ground, or what is yet to calve this spring. We had the very first SAV President calves on the ground in Kentucky, we had the first SAV Raindance calves on the ground in Kentucky. We have SAV Elation calves coming soon, they will absolutely be the first on the ground in Kentucky. That's not exactly slumming it.

Our cows are from the following cow families, Miss Burgess, Queen Mother, Blueblood Lady, Pride, Evergreen, Eurotia, Edella, Joy Erica, and Elba.

We have almost 10 percent of the DNA proven SAV Raindance calves, daughters at that, in the AAA registry with more coming in the next couple of months.

We have owned registered Angus for a much, much longer time than the majority of Angus operations in Kentucky. Not to mention our number of registered animals puts us in the top 10% of the registered Angus herds in the state of Kentucky . Don't trust me? check with Angus who recognized us with the Historic Angus Award last year. That's something that takes documentation to prove. The majority of our herd was built from the ground up, not bought.

Charlie Boyd has been an absolute gentlemen and friend to us, and has offered advice several times, he is not competition to us at all, nor is Charles Cannon of Stone Gate, who is also a good friend of ours. Neither operation breed to the sires we use, they have their thing we have ours.

The only people we compete with is ourselves. We like rare Angus cattle, and have plenty of them. Answer this for me, we will have a couple of SAV President sons available for service by this fall, how many are floating around for sale? How many SAV Raindance daughters are at the sales, yes, there are a few and they aren't exactly cheap. We also have SAV President daughters. Those names might not mean jack squat to you, but to others they do. Our sons from a Stone Gate bull have brought $3k-3500, and we are consistent with that. Our AI sons are more expensive.

Right now we have a really nice Connealy Capitalist daughter settled to SAV President. Again, that may not mean anything to you, but if that calf successfully hits the ground, how many of those will exist? We aren't trying to sell big volume, never have. If we do decide to have a production sale soon it would be only AI sons, no grandsons or mystery bulls from the cleanup sire. Nothing wrong with that, but we want to have a more unique sale, if the demand is there we will do it. Selling privately is a better experience in my opinion. I saw where Spur Angus had an ad in the Angus Journal recently doing the same thing.

If you want to get together soon I would be happy to show you what we have available for sale.

I wasn't intending that as a slam to you. Boyd is the "name brand" in our part of the world and commands a higher price. I'm friends with some of the folks at Solid Rock Angus they have been around for probably 6-8 yrs. They have started having production sales over the last few years and their bulls and donors appear on par with Boyd, but haven't reached the Boyd prices yet. I think they're on their up, though, as they have part ownership (with Boyd and Deer Valley) of a pretty good looking bull on select sires line up now (old hickory; https://selectsiresbeef.com/bull/angus/deer-valley-old-hickory/)
Building a name takes a LONG time. One thing that concerns me about your operation is that you've indicated that you leave all your bulls in tact. While I can understand that this may make sense from a fiscal perspective, I think that this could ultimately be damaging to you operation's reputation. No matter how good your cattle are, there are always ones that don't niche and develop well. If you sell someone a sorry looking bull, and he tells folks where he got it, everyone he tells will have you black balled in their minds.
By the way: "no" all those names mean nothing to me. My cows could care less whose prefix is in the name of the bull that mounts them, and I don't either. :lol:

 

[Bigfoot]

This is a tad bit forward of me, but what is your current age Branded? If you chose to answer, or choose not to answer either way you will wonder why did he ask that. I will be honest.......You are very knowledgeable. That is to be commended. Where that knowledge came from is important as well.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Our sons from a Stone Gate bull have brought $3k-3500, and we are consistent with that. Our AI sons are more expensive.

Why were your bulls for sale on the internet in Oct for $2500?

Anyone who sells bulls within your range of customers is a competitor including all that you mention for name recognition. You're just promoting here and anywhere else, a different or more shiny widget. The actual truth, is that anytime you mention your competition as your sources you are telling folks where to go to get the real seed stock. Promotion is a double edged sword to constantly mention other operations unless you can point out faults for a negative type of advertising.

Those were out of Crook Mt Black Cedar and McCumber Unmistakable. We did not breed them, they were Stone Gate bulls. The price was to move them out ahead of winter. They were under 12 months. Sons out of Stone Gate Kingston are over $3000 and every son we have offered out of him has sold at that price or above.

Ebenezer, do you seem to think that only YOU can breed a top animal? I have not been on here long but it appears to me that you think that using AI, working hard to improve, and caring for your cattle is a fools errand. The real plan is to follow your advice to the letter, and only after many years if ever will we reach the level of the master, kinda like "Karate Kid" right? I've complimented fellow board members on their cattle and what they are doing, but you....it's nothing but critical analysis, as if you are cutting and pasting from a university textbook. I've seen cattle on CT that I think leave much to be desired but I don't put down the owner and the animal directly. Others on here have ripped on me, but you have a far deeper criticism, not just of me but others. Walk the walk, don't just talk the talk. Everything doesn't go right out here, not everything is a win. We do try really hard, work full time on our operation, and offer high quality animals to our clients, if that's shameless promotion so be it. Do you complain when people advertise in Angus Journal or Angus Bulletin? Is it too low rent for you? Should cattle be discussed over drinks at the 19th hole or during a fox hunt?

I've seen your cattle, at least what you have posted on here and I have reserved comment for the most part, I do believe I said something, and it was positive. You on the other hand, it pains you to offer a complement. I meet people like you around here. I could have VAR Power Play sitting out in the field and they would say, not knowing who the bull is, "I've seen much better, in fact I've bred much better, his legs are wrong, his feet are bad etc." Yet unbeknownst to them it's a million dollar plus bull.

I'm not losing any business by mentioning other Angus producers that sell around here. I don't care if a buyer heads over to Boyd's or Stone Gate, in fact we send buyers there. We don't lose when they make a sale. There is plenty of room for improvement in Kentucky cattle and MANY Angus bulls are needed to do the job. Lots of business for everyone, you have a scarcity mentality though, and think that if someone gains, then someone else had to have lost. Recently someone was getting started in Angus and we didn't have any females for sale so we gave them Boyd's number and Stone Gate's number and offered to help them. If what you are selling is garbage then I guess you should worry about your competition, that's not the case with us. If someone wants a Baldridge Colonel daughter or several of them and they can't get it at Stone Gate or Boyd's, then we have them. Simple as that. If we were breeding to Rampage or KCF Bennett Fortress (two fine bulls, but we don't use them) then yes, there might be some competition of some sort because so many producers have sons or daughters out of those bulls for sale in Kentucky, but Boyd's, Stone Gate, and Solid Rock Angus don't breed for the most part to the sires we do. They all have a different plan. I guarantee you that a SAV Raindance heifer or SAV President son will not be offered at Stone Gate in 2019, nor probably ever for that matter. We will soon be breeding some combinations using VAR Explorer 6293, AAA 18417046 and our SAV President daughters, tell me who will have those calves available? That takes years of work to achieve and you act as if it's nothing, as if the effort was a joke.

I mentioned a Connealy Capitalist/SAV President cross, tell me, do you think one snaps a finger and that suddenly happens, it takes years, you know that. We have a Hoover Dam daughter out of a Eurotia cow who is settled to Bubs Southern Charm, do you think that progeny will be easy to obtain? There are a lot of other combinations in the works right now, that I won't share yet, but they aren't something that came about lickety split.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Here's a good UGA bull sale coming up next month. Should be the kind you'd be interested in. I've never been a big numbers or names guy, but a lot of folks breed that way. Branded, I assume your trying to hit a home run with a couple of these up and coming matings to get some embryos out of?
http://beef.caes.uga.edu/programs/focus-on-epds-sale.html

Yes, we will be selling embryos in time. There is more work to do on the genetics I have in mind before that happens however.

Home run? That would be nice, but not banking on it. I just want to have a good time with this and see what develops. I saw an Angus heifer sell last year for in Kentucky for $97,500, I think she was 10 months old. That would be nice to pull that off, but I realize it's a long shot. The embryos are more for the advancement of our herd.

Glad to hear that you have a Joy Erica cow, I really like that cow family, we have a few. One is almost 2000 pounds and is like a statue. Really good cow.

I'm not breeding just because of a prefix or what is currently hot. I want the years and years of work that an operation like SAV or Baldridge has produced, and buying a straw of semen is the best way to do it at the lowest cost.

I've seen cheap bulls and I've seen really good ones from AI, I will take the AI all day long. No one will ever convince me that an old bull from the stockyards will produce great cattle. If that were the case everyone would get their bulls at the stockyards, and prices for them wouldn't be rock bottom.

 

[Ky hills]

Branded, I understand your enthusiasm, I used to love thinking of breeding combinations when deciding which AI sires to use both in Charolais and Angus. I sincerely wish you success in your endeavors. It sounds as though you are well on your way. If it seems I have been a little antagonistic it is because I have been in probably a similar spot and things did not turn out as well for me as I hope that they do for you. You seem to have a well thought out plan and are implementing it, you seem to have all of the answers, at one time I did too, until the questions changed and no amount of spin or hype could change it back. I will admit that you are probably in a better place in your journey than I was, and that may very well be a difference maker.
I had a lot of the same theories and said a lot of the same type marketing strategies that you are saying now. I actually tried those through two different breeds. At one time I was proud as peacock over an ET son of a then fairly current son of a National Champion bull and Reserve National Champion Female, Charolais bull purchased from Roy Canada. Really liked the bull, have a picture of the old boy on our wall. I thought he was going to be our breakout bull, didn't happen. Then purchased a bull from a very well hyped program in another state, that bull was supposed to moderate frame add milk and calving ease. It was a calving nightmare, that ended my run with Charolais. I then over time attempted to get back into registered cattle Angus in particular. I found a couple groups of registered heifers, they were decent but lacked the overall quality I thought registered stock should have including good disposition on some. The culling process took its toll and I started buying young heifers from cow/calf splits at sales. You mentioned Connealy Capitalist, one of my pride and joys for a while was a heifer by SAV Final Answer that was 3/4 of the same genetics as Capitalist. She grew into a really nice looking cow, but like many others was culled due to not being a consistent calver. Those names and prefixes that once meant something to me now mean very little. I am moving forward with commercial black cows and Hereford cows, I still care about good quality as we sell replacement heifers, and try to use good bulls both Angus and Hereford. The only registered Angus females that I have left are 2 Hoover Dam daughters and a CC&7 daughter. It was my dream goal to achieve some of the high selling cattle and have a recognized herd name, but the goal post keeps moving, and I realized that that goal was never going to attained by me, so the quest ended. Hopefully your goals will be achieved.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Here's a good UGA bull sale coming up next month. Should be the kind you'd be interested in. I've never been a big numbers or names guy, but a lot of folks breed that way. Branded, I assume your trying to hit a home run with a couple of these up and coming matings to get some embryos out of?
http://beef.caes.uga.edu/programs/focus-on-epds-sale.html

Yes, we will be selling embryos in time. There is more work to do on the genetics I have in mind before that happens however.

Home run? That would be nice, but not banking on it. I just want to have a good time with this and see what develops. I saw an Angus heifer sell last year for in Kentucky for $97,500, I think she was 10 months old. That would be nice to pull that off, but I realize it's a long shot. The embryos are more for the advancement of our herd.

Glad to hear that you have a Joy Erica cow, I really like that cow family, we have a few. One is almost 2000 pounds and is like a statue. Really good cow.

I'm not breeding just because of a prefix or what is currently hot. I want the years and years of work that an operation like SAV or Baldridge has produced, and buying a straw of semen is the best way to do it at the lowest cost.

I've seen cheap bulls and I've seen really good ones from AI, I will take the AI all day long. No one will ever convince me that an old bull from the stockyards will produce great cattle. If that were the case everyone would get their bulls at the stockyards, and prices for them wouldn't be rock bottom.

Most of our cattle are Donna, Erica or Blackbird influenced. I've never bought bulls at the stockyard. But I've seen some of the best kind of bulls come through the sale ring. A lot of folks trade bulls every couple of years and very few people have a market for a 4 year old bull. We take ours to central Florida to sell and adverage probably $500 more than hamburger prices. Once a bull gets up around a ton he needs to find another home.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Once a bull gets up around a ton he needs to find another home.

I don't go by weight as much as age, but I do agree with you. I personally prefer to use a yearling that is in top condition on a smaller number of cows, when we are not doing AI. Many people I speak with want an older bull because they think the size is to their advantage, and as silly as it seems, they think a big masculine bull is more manly, I actually had someone say that to me. I've found that older bulls get lazy, just like humans. Would you rather place your bet on the 50-year-old weekend warrior or the 18-year-old with raging hormones? You get the picture.

A healthy, well developed 12-14-month-old bull is going to be in his prime, studies have shown they are much more effective than older bulls.

As for the Donna cow family, I want to use some Coleman Donna embryos in the future.

 

[Chocolate Cow2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZxQ_jWEHeE&fbclid=IwAR21ZWp84_Qb515Ru67Qy8rI9XLXvGhF1lo3hv4o5TAeaXIkCp5k0tX4Zm4