Do your steers make the cut?

[CattleMan1920]

I've heard numerous times on this forum that CAB is a total joke. There is usually little to no facts to back up those statements. After watching this video below, I think they hold producer's feet to the fire, and that a lot of "black hided" cattle get shown the door, probably a lot of them are not purebred Angus. I found it interesting that most don't make it because of marbling. I also found it interesting that they said some producers want the feedlot to fix problems with their animals.

I would like to hear from those of you on the forum that have a "successful" relationship with CAB and how it's turned out for you. We sell bulls to people who routinely ask about alternatives to selling to the stockyards and having their clocked cleaned. I've told them to take a closer look at CAB.

http://bit.ly/2G3YARP

 

[Bigfoot]

I don't have a "successful" relationship. Not sure how one would achieve a "successful" relationship. The only way to hit the mark is to reach the criteria. Sure, any meat that meets the criteria is going to be top quality. It's going to be moist and juicy. The average person has no idea what they are talking about when they say that want a moist juicy steak. They are really saying give me a well marbeled steak. The "criteria" insures they get that. A choice plus carcass gives you the same thing without all the extra smoke and haze marketing.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Not that hard to find out just find you a feedlot to take them and feed them. Retain ownership and get the data back. Just remember quality grade is one side Yield grade is the other. Might need at least enough to make a pot load.

 

[Bigfoot]

I was in a little choke and puke restaurant one time. Might have been Shoney's. Menu said we serve on select cuts of beef to our valued customers. Great marketing scheme, and definitely truth in the advertising. Under the fluff, what are they putting on the plate? About the lowest quality steak they can find. The angus association through marketing, claimed a spot high on the hog. Said it was theirs, and in the public's total oblivious state of the packing industry jumped on the train. Toot toot.

 

[Ebenezer]

I've heard numerous times on this forum that CAB is a total joke

Maybe from using the word Angus when the beef might not really be Angus. The Angus in the breed name is supposed to be pure. The Angus in the CAB is a marketing term. Folks get discouraged because the two do not match.

 

[Bigfoot]

I just keep going for some reason........Any animal from almost any breed has the same opportunity to achieve the highly coveted certified Angus beef stamp. IMHO, it's set the entire industry back, not forward. Producers chasing the stamp. Come on now. Chasing single trait selection, when the whole thing is sorted out after the animal is dead, and skint. The same producer could pursue a high choice, if they wanted to. Problem is, that wouldn't pay now would it? Not to the cow calf man. Nothing to back up this statement, but my opinion. An Angus bull brings almost nothing to the party for a commercial cattleman. A straight Angus cow brings even less. Almost any logical cross you want to name, is going to bring more pounds to the weaning pen when fall comes. All these low birth weight angus bulls floating around the great commonwealth of Ky, might as well be low line bulls, for the size of calf they are producing at 8 months of age.

 

[Bright Raven]

I just keep going for some reason........Any animal from almost any breed has the same opportunity to achieve the highly coveted certified Angus beef stamp. IMHO, it's set the entire industry back, not forward. Producers chasing the stamp. Come on now. Chasing single trait selection, when the whole thing is sorted out after the animal is dead, and skint. The same producer could pursue a high choice, if they wanted to. Problem is, that wouldn't pay now would it? Not to the cow calf man. Nothing to back up this statement, but my opinion. An Angus bull brings almost nothing to the party for a commercial cattleman. A straight Angus cow brings even less. Almost any logical cross you want to name, is going to bring more pounds to the weaning pen when fall comes. All these low birth weight angus bulls floating around the great commonwealth of Ky, might as well be low line bulls, for the size of calf they are producing at 8 months of age.

Set the industry back, maybe, I see your point. But it has promoted black hided cattle. Furthermore, it has been a cash cow (funny), for both the Angus Breed and the CAB brand which don't forget, are two entirely different enterprises. The CAB Brand is basically "rented" to beef packers. The packers don't give a cup of cold water what breed is in the package as long as it meets the CAB established criteria.

 

[Bigfoot]

I just keep going for some reason........Any animal from almost any breed has the same opportunity to achieve the highly coveted certified Angus beef stamp. IMHO, it's set the entire industry back, not forward. Producers chasing the stamp. Come on now. Chasing single trait selection, when the whole thing is sorted out after the animal is dead, and skint. The same producer could pursue a high choice, if they wanted to. Problem is, that wouldn't pay now would it? Not to the cow calf man. Nothing to back up this statement, but my opinion. An Angus bull brings almost nothing to the party for a commercial cattleman. A straight Angus cow brings even less. Almost any logical cross you want to name, is going to bring more pounds to the weaning pen when fall comes. All these low birth weight angus bulls floating around the great commonwealth of Ky, might as well be low line bulls, for the size of calf they are producing at 8 months of age.

Set the industry back, maybe, I see your point. But it has promoted black hided cattle. Furthermore, it has been a cash cow (funny), for both the Angus Breed and the CAB brand which don't forget, are two entirely different enterprises. The CAB Brand is basically "rented" to beef packers. The packers don't give a cup of cold water what breed is in the package as long as it meets the CAB established criteria.

I honestly do think it set the industry back. Especially in our area. Cattle are commingled, and graded. The 2 blacks bring what the 1 offs bring. You can bring a lower quality calf to the yard, and leave with same check. That can't be good all the way down the chain.

 

[True Grit Farms]

To large of ribeye area culls 11%, and cattle over1050 make up another 9% of the culls so that leaves 72% that get culled because of the lack of marbling. So that my friends is why the majority of the CAB beef is produced from moderate size Angus cows.

 

[Ky hills]

Can't say anything about marketing to CAB, though we do use Angus Bulls some. I figure some of our graded CPH sale calves may eventually be marketed by somebody down the line to CAB.
We do sell Hereford and BWF calves in sale that supposedly qualifies for CHB. In a regular sale our Hereford feeders would get docked significantly but in those Hereford influence sales they usually sell right with or above the highest sellers for that day of the regular sale.
As for what I think of the CAB product, it's been inconsistent in my experience, but I do like the quality of the ground beef. If we didn't have our own beef, CAB would be what I would prefer as an alternative, it's USA origin.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I don't have a "successful" relationship. Not sure how one would achieve a "successful" relationship. The only way to hit the mark is to reach the criteria. Sure, any meat that meets the criteria is going to be top quality. It's going to be moist and juicy. The average person has no idea what they are talking about when they say that want a moist juicy steak. They are really saying give me a well marbeled steak. The "criteria" insures they get that. A choice plus carcass gives you the same thing without all the extra smoke and haze marketing.

Let me word things differently. Has anyone developed steers that meet the standards of CAB? Worked with CAB, and sold to CAB on an ongoing basis?

 

[CattleMan1920]

I just keep going for some reason........Any animal from almost any breed has the same opportunity to achieve the highly coveted certified Angus beef stamp. IMHO, it's set the entire industry back, not forward. Producers chasing the stamp. Come on now. Chasing single trait selection, when the whole thing is sorted out after the animal is dead, and skint. The same producer could pursue a high choice, if they wanted to. Problem is, that wouldn't pay now would it? Not to the cow calf man. Nothing to back up this statement, but my opinion. An Angus bull brings almost nothing to the party for a commercial cattleman. A straight Angus cow brings even less. Almost any logical cross you want to name, is going to bring more pounds to the weaning pen when fall comes. All these low birth weight angus bulls floating around the great commonwealth of Ky, might as well be low line bulls, for the size of calf they are producing at 8 months of age.

I had a prime Angus recently at a restaurant in Lexington, KY. It was from Creekstone. I can tell you that it was way above average in taste compared to some shoe leather I've had at lower priced restaurants.

I wonder what you would say about Shorthorns, do they produce horrible beef as well? What about Hereford, overhyped? I feel that you think that the only reason, and the absolute only reason, Angus is where it is today is hype.

As for low birthweight, calving ease bulls. I agree with you. I have no use for small framed bulls. Our average birthweight is in the 80-100 range, which scares off most people. We have available bulls for you that were over 100 pounds at birth and are terminal CED. They won't be delivering puny cattle, unless one's cows aren't up to snuff.

What breed combinations would produce superior marbling? Excluding Wagyu. Would you approve of purebred Angus crossed with purebred Shorthorn?

 

[plumber_greg]

I don't have a "successful" relationship. Not sure how one would achieve a "successful" relationship. The only way to hit the mark is to reach the criteria. Sure, any meat that meets the criteria is going to be top quality. It's going to be moist and juicy. The average person has no idea what they are talking about when they say that want a moist juicy steak. They are really saying give me a well marbeled steak. The "criteria" insures they get that. A choice plus carcass gives you the same thing without all the extra smoke and haze marketing.

Let me word things differently. Has anyone developed steers that meet the standards of CAB? Worked with CAB, and sold to CAB on an ongoing basis?

I've sent calves my calves to the feedlot, one pen once had 29% CAB. So ,yes I have met the standards.
I'm confused, how do you think someone "sells to CAB"?
How do you "work with CAB"?
How so you "sell to CAB on an ongoing basis"?
I think you need to find out what CAB is and retain ownership of some calves. Then talk about how easy it is to develop the right kind of cattle.
JMHO. GS

 

[mwj]

The good thing about CAB is the grading standards not the hide color. We never raise ALL good cattle even though we try our best. A lot of people would be very surprised if all there cattle were sold on the ''rail''.

The program gives the consumer a chance at buying a decent cut of beef on a regular basis, which is a good thing. Our end users as a whole do not have the skill to visually identify that choice steak we are proud of producing. At the price in the meat counter they will not come back for numerous poor guesses.

Greg it is good to see you back.

 

[TCRanch]

I just keep going for some reason........Any animal from almost any breed has the same opportunity to achieve the highly coveted certified Angus beef stamp. IMHO, it's set the entire industry back, not forward. Producers chasing the stamp. Come on now. Chasing single trait selection, when the whole thing is sorted out after the animal is dead, and skint. The same producer could pursue a high choice, if they wanted to. Problem is, that wouldn't pay now would it? Not to the cow calf man. Nothing to back up this statement, but my opinion. An Angus bull brings almost nothing to the party for a commercial cattleman. A straight Angus cow brings even less. Almost any logical cross you want to name, is going to bring more pounds to the weaning pen when fall comes. All these low birth weight angus bulls floating around the great commonwealth of Ky, might as well be low line bulls, for the size of calf they are producing at 8 months of age.

I had a prime Angus recently at a restaurant in Lexington, KY. It was from Creekstone. I can tell you that it was way above average in taste compared to some shoe leather I've had at lower priced restaurants.

I wonder what you would say about Shorthorns, do they produce horrible beef as well? What about Hereford, overhyped? I feel that you think that the only reason, and the absolute only reason, Angus is where it is today is hype.

As for low birthweight, calving ease bulls. I agree with you. I have no use for small framed bulls. Our average birthweight is in the 80-100 range, which scares off most people. We have available bulls for you that were over 100 pounds at birth and are terminal CED. They won't be delivering puny cattle, unless one's cows aren't up to snuff.

What breed combinations would produce superior marbling? Excluding Wagyu. Would you approve of purebred Angus crossed with purebred Shorthorn?

Shameless self promotion:
https://tupelohoneycafe.com/blog/creekstone-farms-bringing-out-the-best-in-beef/?fbclid=IwAR2fRUMmAp-G2F0yHUXVvMl3ZnhSR5GzdU7X4oLTCfOUJpLiEEyn_A_23Xg

 

[True Grit Farms]

https://brasstownbeef.com
We've sold our steers and a bull with GAR genetics to these folks.

 

[Dave]

A good friend I was helping last year while waiting for our move said anyone who raises cattle should have to feed them out at least once. Doing that will teach a person pretty quick what works. It is also the only way you will know if your calves make it as far as CAB goes. Too many yield grade 4's, low efficiency calves, and over or under sized carcasses will be a painful painful lesson to learn.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I just keep going for some reason........Any animal from almost any breed has the same opportunity to achieve the highly coveted certified Angus beef stamp. IMHO, it's set the entire industry back, not forward. Producers chasing the stamp. Come on now. Chasing single trait selection, when the whole thing is sorted out after the animal is dead, and skint. The same producer could pursue a high choice, if they wanted to. Problem is, that wouldn't pay now would it? Not to the cow calf man. Nothing to back up this statement, but my opinion. An Angus bull brings almost nothing to the party for a commercial cattleman. A straight Angus cow brings even less. Almost any logical cross you want to name, is going to bring more pounds to the weaning pen when fall comes. All these low birth weight angus bulls floating around the great commonwealth of Ky, might as well be low line bulls, for the size of calf they are producing at 8 months of age.

I had a prime Angus recently at a restaurant in Lexington, KY. It was from Creekstone. I can tell you that it was way above average in taste compared to some shoe leather I've had at lower priced restaurants.

I wonder what you would say about Shorthorns, do they produce horrible beef as well? What about Hereford, overhyped? I feel that you think that the only reason, and the absolute only reason, Angus is where it is today is hype.

As for low birthweight, calving ease bulls. I agree with you. I have no use for small framed bulls. Our average birthweight is in the 80-100 range, which scares off most people. We have available bulls for you that were over 100 pounds at birth and are terminal CED. They won't be delivering puny cattle, unless one's cows aren't up to snuff.

What breed combinations would produce superior marbling? Excluding Wagyu. Would you approve of purebred Angus crossed with purebred Shorthorn?

Shameless self promotion:
https://tupelohoneycafe.com/blog/creekstone-farms-bringing-out-the-best-in-beef/?fbclid=IwAR2fRUMmAp-G2F0yHUXVvMl3ZnhSR5GzdU7X4oLTCfOUJpLiEEyn_A_23Xg

Very interesting! Nice to see articles like this...Good job!

 

[CattleMan1920]

I don't have a "successful" relationship. Not sure how one would achieve a "successful" relationship. The only way to hit the mark is to reach the criteria. Sure, any meat that meets the criteria is going to be top quality. It's going to be moist and juicy. The average person has no idea what they are talking about when they say that want a moist juicy steak. They are really saying give me a well marbeled steak. The "criteria" insures they get that. A choice plus carcass gives you the same thing without all the extra smoke and haze marketing.

Let me word things differently. Has anyone developed steers that meet the standards of CAB? Worked with CAB, and sold to CAB on an ongoing basis?

I've sent calves my calves to the feedlot, one pen once had 29% CAB. So ,yes I have met the standards.
I'm confused, how do you think someone "sells to CAB"?
How do you "work with CAB"?
How so you "sell to CAB on an ongoing basis"?
I think you need to find out what CAB is and retain ownership of some calves. Then talk about how easy it is to develop the right kind of cattle.
JMHO. GS

I don't sell steers because the demand for our bulls and the ability to sell them makes it more profitable for us to not cut them. However, I am tossing around the idea of cutting all non-AI bull calves in the future. Not a definite because if I can get $3-4k for a bull, even if it's a grandson of a top AI sires like SAV Harvestor, SAV International, Hoover Dam, etc. why would I cut him and sell that animal for $1k, unless of course, something was wrong with the animal that would not make him suitable for service. This is not just my opinion, several people I know have said "don't cut any bulls if they can be registered and they are of quality, you are throwing money away" I watch the sales closely in Kentucky and very few if any are comprised COMPLETELY of AI sons, most have AI sons at the beginning and then it's all grandsons or great-grandsons of top AI sires. Those sales produce some big profits on grandsons and great grandsons, which is why I mention this above.

WIth that said I still want to build a steer operation, because you guys and gals are right, I do believe if you can prove what you are producing is very high quality, via the information on the steers, then you have another feather in your cap when selling seed stock. We have sold a few steers it's been years ago, and they ran through the stockyards, but we of course did not get any info on them. I've debated on using registered cows and bulls to start a steer business, versus buying outside animals and developing them out with our bulls, but then I get back to the issue of cutting bulls that can be registered and would work fine for most commercial producers. I also like the idea of a cross of registered Angus and purebred Shorthorns, but I've been told that I would get absolutely killed selling those, even though the carcass merits would probably be very good if not excellent.

On a side note, why do people look down on the Shorthorn? In my research they were held in pretty high esteem in the 1800's and into the early 1900's. They have excellent marbling and they are great milkers. They were definitely not low rent cattle.

I apologize for not wording things correctly with CAB. I've called CAB a couple of times now, was asked to leave a voicemail, and did not receive a call back. Which was a little surprising? I've spoken to Creekstone and they were definitely interested in our cattle, and even more so if I would cross them with Wagyu, which after more research, I'm not ready to do.

 

[Bright Raven]

I don't sell steers because the demand for our bulls and the ability to sell them makes it more profitable for us to not cut them. However, I am tossing around the idea of cutting all non-AI bull calves in the future. Not a definite because if I can get $3-4k for a bull, even if it's a grandson of a top AI sires like SAV Harvestor, SAV International, Hoover Dam, etc. why would I cut him and sell that animal for $1k, unless of course, something was wrong with the animal that would not make him suitable for service. This is not just my opinion, several people I know have said "don't cut any bulls if they can be registered and they are of quality, you are throwing money away" I watch the sales closely in Kentucky and very few if any are comprised COMPLETELY of AI sons, most have AI sons at the beginning and then it's all grandsons or great-grandsons of top AI sires. Those sales produce some big profits on grandsons and great grandsons, which is why I mention this above.

James you have opened the controversial topic of castrating bull calves in a seedstock operation!

Let the fun begin!!!