Do red hides get discounted?

[Rmc]

So, if you like colored cattle better, start conversations as often as possible suggesting that the coloreds are the ones that bring the premium... and if that mantra takes in the broad scale industry-wide, it too will have its influence!

Why would I do that when I can make more money with the status quo?
Cow calf part of operation is set up to produce black calves sell for the premium in the fall. Take some of that money in spring to buy otb calves at rock bottom prices , sell those calves in late fall early winter direct to consumer.
Don't like the black premium price , but I will use it to my advantage to make the most profit possible.

 

[Warren Allison]

Well, I am a PB Simmental breeder. I raise reds and blacks. In the PB market right now, red is HOT - in breeding stock. For bulls, most buyers want a black bull - if they sell their offspring at a sale barn. NONE of my calves go to a sale barn. I sell some steers freezer trade (they can be pink and polka dotted if they taste good) and I sell direct to a feedlot buyer. He doesn't care what color they are, because he smiles and says he makes money on my steers. Color does not affect quality - IF - you make your own market. If you have to sell your offspring at a sale barn, then just buy yourself a nice homozygous black Simmental bull. All your offspring will be black, heavy muscled and grow. My black steers that are finished out qualify for CAB program. The program is for black hided cattle - not "Angus" cattle. It was designed to make a market for their Angus bulls.

AMEN!!

 

[Warren Allison]

Why would I do that when I can make more money with the status quo?
Cow calf part of operation is set up to produce black calves sell for the premium in the fall. Take some of that money in spring to buy otb calves at rock bottom prices , sell those calves in late fall early winter direct to consumer.
Don't like the black premium price , but I will use it to my advantage to make the most profit possible.

AMEN!!

 

[Warren Allison]

Warren,

Yeah, I wasn't meaning necessarily saying it on CT will make it even more true... I meant just in general, in conversations with anyone about this topic.

But even in regard to a conversation on CT... if enough of us on here voice an opinion... and it tends then to appear to be a majority-supported opinion (which it has seemed to be here in this thread)... that "black hided cattle will bring more money"............ then those reading those words ARE weighing that conversation, and that "opinion" into their purchasing options. Why, after all, is it even a topic of conversation otherwise? So when I or someone else that took an interest in that topic and conversation goes to the barn to buy some feeders, which ones will they be more likely to bid more strongly on? Some may not let the conversation influence them, because they have their own strong opinions and biases... or they like to "go against the tide".... but if enough conversations in the industry continue to support that "black hided theory", it IS eventually going to have an influence broadly and industry-wide (rather than on EVERY SINGLE individual in the industry), and eventually even on those who otherwise are pretty steadfast in their desire to believe otherwise.

So, if you like colored cattle better, start conversations as often as possible suggesting that the coloreds are the ones that bring the premium... and if that mantra takes in the broad scale industry-wide, it too will have its influence!

No it won't, RDFF. Nothing will change until say, Charolais, spends millions of dollars, and hires Sam Elliot to do commercials, sitting at a campfire with his horse tied in the background, grilling a steak on an open campfire, talking about how Charolais beef is the BEST BEEF there is. And the Charolais Association developes a Certified Charolais program and gets the USDA to appprove and develope guidelines for. Then they pay $1million for a 30 second spot on the Superbowl, and sponsor Yellowstone, etc, and run this ad every night for years until people do start asking Wynn Dixie or whoever if they have Charolais beef. and enough of them to where the stores ask their packers for it, etc., and etc. and that would be perfectly FINE. Awesome even. and the other Continental breed will race tro chage their caattke into Charolais. and the red cattle breeder will bitch and moan , and claim it is foul, and criminal, even, that Chianina and White Park etc cattle can get the premium but their red cattle can't! Rather than just buy white cattle to raise for themselves! Sheesh!!!

 

[WFfarm]

then just buy yourself a nice homozygous black Simmental bull.

Santa brought us one last year!

 

[WFfarm]

You don't need Angus to get CAB premiums.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Santa brought us one last year!

Hope he is doing well!!

 

[mwj]

The consumer is the only force that makes CAB work. If you find a way to get the consumer to pay a premium for what they do not want, you will be rich beyond your dreams.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

@Travlr you have this notion that the Simmental breed is ruined by Angus blood. You are wrong.
Yes, we have black Simmentals and the black gene "most likely" came from Angus. But, if I DNA tested my cows, you would play heck finding Angus genetics in any of my herd or in most of the PB herds in the USA. I have NEVER used an Angus bull. I used commercial black cows and BWF cows back in 1970. I never even used a black Simmental bull until I used my bull I raised (an embryo). Homo black/Homo polled (my avatar - Simme Valley Macho As U)
That black gene is dominant without ever re-visiting anything "Angus" in our breeding program. You do not find the fine bones, deer feet of Angus in most PB Simmental cattle. Many people are using Simmental x Angus for commercial feedlot steers and great momma cows. The SimAngus steers have been topping the Superior Livestock Auction. "SimAngus steers earned more at sale time than all other calves in 2020"

 

[Travlr]

The consumer doesn't know enough to be discriminating and that makes CAB work. If you find a way to get the consumer to pay a premium for something they only think is higher value, you will be rich beyond your dreams.

FIFY

 

[coachg]

That there's more money to be made retired than by raising cattle?

No sir , my 2 sons bought a fenced cattle farm of roughly 240 acres. Since ole dad was retired he could help look after a few cows . A few cows now number about 200 head, cows , calves , bulls and open and bred heifers. Oldest son is a workaholic. Owns I know of 2 thriving businesses with about 50 employees between the two. I think he has more businesses but he's pretty tight lipped. The other son drills natural gas wells . Currently he's in Louisiana but he's worked in Arkansas and Pennsylvania. My daughter now has 8 head mixed in with Paw Paws and her brothers . I have a lawn care business that helps pay cattle expenses. I have retirement from the state of Alabama for teaching 30 years and I'm now drawing social security. . So the answer is probably not , on making money on cattle, but I love it !

 

[Travlr]

@Travlr you have this notion that the Simmental breed is ruined by Angus blood. You are wrong.
Yes, we have black Simmentals and the black gene "most likely" came from Angus. But, if I DNA tested my cows, you would play heck finding Angus genetics in any of my herd or in most of the PB herds in the USA. I have NEVER used an Angus bull. I used commercial black cows and BWF cows back in 1970. I never even used a black Simmental bull until I used my bull I raised (an embryo). Homo black/Homo polled (my avatar - Simme Valley Macho As U)
That black gene is dominant without ever re-visiting anything "Angus" in our breeding program. You do not find the fine bones, deer feet of Angus in most PB Simmental cattle. Many people are using Simmental x Angus for commercial feedlot steers and great momma cows. The SimAngus steers have been topping the Superior Livestock Auction. "SimAngus steers earned more at sale time than all other calves in 2020"

I dearly wish you would use the reply feature so everyone can see what you are taking exception to.

I said, "One thing I didn't anticipate was that Simmental and Limousin and others would pollute their gene pool with angus blood to compete, but who knows, it may have invigorated stagnant lines in the various breeds. At some point we'll see."

Correct me if I'm wrong... but where did Simmental get their black genetics (which you acknowledge)? And before there were black Simmental... was there something wrong with them regarding their color? And I congratulate the breeds using angus genetics to black their cattle. It's a harsh fact that this is the way we have to compete against a terrible but brilliant marketing strategy to sell angus bulls. And I agree that black Sims are superior cattle in their own ways, just as other black cattle are in theirs... including angus. And... I would buy a Simmental (or other homozygous black breed) before I'd buy an angus, and I've said this several times. So I'm not sure where your beef is coming from.

But just to be clear... angus were used and angus genetics are now in the breeds using them to be black. I'm not aware of any filter to get a dominant black gene from an angus without also getting a bunch of other genes to tag along. I'm pretty sure you and other breeders are doing a great job, but reality is. The pollution (I use that word, you may find it objectionable) of other breeds may be minimal and never be problematic, but angus have some issues that may not be filtered by good intentions. We'll see.

In the meantime I will promote the use of your bulls and other black-bulls-not-angus because I believe the CAB program is damaging to the industry as a whole. This is not a perfect solution, but in the real world the best solutions are not perfect and if you have a better solution to the CAB debacle please feel free to inform me.

Do you have any concerns about the DNA testing that black angus (and probably red, so combined) will soon be using to differentiate your product from theirs at the sale barn?

 

[mwj]

Some people are really proud of what they think they know.

 

[Dave]

As with most things where you live has a great deal to do with things. I hauled a kill cow to the sale. Looked to see if they had any bred cows that would work for me (they didn't have any). Bought a burger and watched feeder calves sell for a while. The top lot I saw sell was 18 head of Char cross steers. They were green, long time weaned, double round of shots, weighed 487, and they sold for $2.42. That is $1,178 a head. Man sitting beside me bought two lots of 15 head each of heavy 700+ pound black heifers. He paid $1.69. I didn't write down the exact weights but at 750 pounds that woudl be $1,267. There was red steers weighing 500 that sold for over $2.00. There was 10 BWF heifers that were really the kind. I thought about buying them but didn't know where to put them. 625 pounds sold for $1.64. That was $1,025 each. They would have made great cows.

 

[Brute 23]

Is money made on the buy or the sell?

 

[TCRanch]

I went to our local sale today to support my best friend & her dad (plus I enjoy going). Mixed group of calves: red, black, grey, black/white & red/white mutts and a few with horns, primarily Gelbvieh with a few Speckled Park and whatever else her dad picked up over the years. They sold appx 120 calves, and the largest group of steers were black, red and a couple of the grey just over 6 wt. Market is up but they did fairly well because the calves are backgrounded and long-term weaned. Horns and the mutts were pulled and docked - a lot.

 

[kenny thomas]

That there's more money to be made retired than by raising cattle?

That's a good point. I have a decent retirement and have Social security. No expenses to get those checks each month and no worries about market price. All I have to do is stay alive to make a profit.

 

[Travlr]

Is money made on the buy or the sell?

In real estate, if you're doing it right... both.

It's more difficult with cattle but it does work if you have the patience.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

Some people are really proud of what they think they know.

Is that your best work? Last I heard Will Rogers was resting comfortably,

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I said, "One thing I didn't anticipate was that Simmental and Limousin and others would pollute their gene pool with angus blood to compete, but who knows, it may have invigorated stagnant lines in the various breeds. At some point we'll see."

Correct me if I'm wrong... but where did Simmental get their black genetics (which you acknowledge)? And before there were black Simmental... was there something wrong with them regarding their color?

Do you have any concerns about the DNA testing that black angus (and probably red, so combined) will soon be using to differentiate your product from theirs at the sale barn?

My point is - we did not USE ANGUS to become black. We got black without wanting or trying to. Simply by using what everyone did back in the early 70's - commercial cows. Some were black. We got black calves. There was nothing wrong with our original color. I did and still do LOVE the reds & white. But, black gene came with the upgrading package. When you got that black heifer calf and bred her to a r&w Simmental each year, you had a 50/50 chance of getting a 3/4 % BLACK Simmental. Then, you bred that 3/4% black Simm to another Fullblood Simmental r&w bull - and guess what? You got a BLACK PB calf half the time. There is no POLUTION in our breed just because we continued to have black calves because of our upgrading program. I am not the only PB Simmental breeder that upgraded to PB status still in business - with BLACK SIMMENTALS - and never bred to an ANGUS BULL.
You are over the top concerned about Angus polluting all the breeds. Settle down. We are all right. Our cattle are not dwindling away with Angus genetics.
I'm not saying there are not a lot of people using Angus bulls to create black calves. Yup, lots of that going on. But, noone is using Angus bulls to create a Simmental herd.