DNA genetic question

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TxSimbrahShower

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We had this question proposed to us and we were wondering if it's possible or not.

If cow A and cow B are full sibs, both embryos, for some reason cow B doesn't have a calf, so cow A's calf is registered to cow B, would it dna to cow B since they are full sibs and from the same flush?


:shock: (Even though as long as the rancher has both cows, they would just have to pull hairs out of cow A when the dna is done.)
 

MO_cows

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It might get a qualification but it would still be a poor practice. It would be committing fraud on the breed association and would mess up the cow's production records, wouldn't it? Embryo flushmates are still not identical twins and could have some differences in their markers even though they have the same pedigree.
 

Keren

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Hang on a minute ... taking a while to wrap my head round this.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, there's a good chance I am lol this is just my muddled brain mulling things over

Now, with people, identical twins have the same DNA because they were one fertilised egg that split. Fraternal twins or even different age siblings, have different DNA because they each had their own fertilised egg.

With flushing a cow, you superovulate her, so that you get many many eggs ... each ET calf is the result of its own egg.

Does that all make sense?

So full flush sisters, would not have the same DNA ...
 

hillsdown

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I agree as well Keren unless A and B were from a split fertilized egg they will not have the same DNA. But it will still DNA somewhat to cow B as they will share the same DNA as Aunt and niece.
 
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TxSimbrahShower

TxSimbrahShower

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1st, I am not condoning(sp?) this and we have not and will not do this. We play by the rules. Be it we end up at the top or at the bottom. However, as everyone knows, alot don't play by the rules. This was just a question that someone asked us and we have not had a lot of dealing with dna'ing so we were all kinda like hmmmmmmmmmmm.


So the cows would have to have been twin embryo calves from the same egg for the calf to match both.



But like I said as long as the rancher has both cows in their possession, then all they would have to do is to pull the hairs from the actual dam of the calf to send for the dna test.

Thanks everyone.
 

hillsdown

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Holstein Canada is very strict with embryos and DNA on file because of this exact thing. Avery well known breeder sold very very expensive embryos that were not out of said cow but a sister, they thought that the DNA would be close enough to pass. WRONG..
Now it is mandatory to have DNA on file from the dam before you can sell any embryos. And some wonder why I question or challenge a lot of breeders ,,,,one bad apple and it spoils them all. Cover your @ss, be honest from the start and in the end you will always come out ahead. Also no matter what great reputation a breeder has get all of the info that you can ,just because they haven't been caught yet does not mean that they aren't doing it.
 

Red Bull Breeder

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Sounds like somebody is trying to pump cow B up for some reason. If they are full sibs why not just reg. the calf to cow A like they should.
 
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TxSimbrahShower

TxSimbrahShower

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Like I said it was just a question asked during a conversation, I didn't really go into the details on the why or who. In a way wanted to know who it was, but then in another way didn't. However, supposedly wasn't anyone that we do business with, so that made us feel better.

Could be several different reasons.

Maybe both cows are partnership cattle and maybe cow B they own a bigger percentage in, maybe 1/2 interest and in cow A maybe only a 1/4 interest, or maybe cow A is a partnership cow and cow B they own 100%, may just be greedy.

Maybe they owe more to the partners in cow B, then cow A, and since for some reason cow B didn't have a calf or lost her calf they want to replace it with cow A's calf.

Who knows with some of these folks.

My red flag goes up when a rancher explains in detail just how to cheat, reg. a 1/2 percentage or different breed totally, as long as it has enough of the breed characteristic, as a purebred, by saying it's out of a cow or bull that you don't ever plan on reg. anything else out of and if dna is requested, then oops, sold bull/cow or bull/cow died so can't get dna samples.

or when you go to look at show heifer's and you ask the birth date on one and the answer is "what birth date do you want it to be." Well I want to know what day it hit the ground, not that it was born in Nov., but, a Jan. birth date is put on the reg. papers.
 

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