Diesel shortage

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kenny thomas said:
Not sure what the reason but on road diesel was 5.70 and off road was 4.99 at
The terminal in Knoxville TN this afternoon. Add 5 cents to haul it here. We are still able to get several tractor trailer loads a day but some companies aren't able to get any.
We are being told it could get really bad next week.
Not trying to do anything but give some information. Draw your own conclusions.
Click to expand...


If you will notice in the post that: On Tuesday, headlines indicating that the U.S. is down to a 25-day supply of diesel proliferated. Fox News host Tucker Carlson last week tweeted that "this country is about to run out of diesel fuel." That is where the panic started.

www.cbsnews.com

No, the U.S. is not going to run out of diesel fuel in 25 days

The U.S. has a 25 day supply of diesel fuel, but refineries are continuing to add to that.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com
 
rocfarm said:
Anybody know how much more electricity it'd take to run all of the vehicles in the US? Kindda important to the discussion…
Click to expand...
Gasoline use in the US is 135 billion gallons per year. There are 120,000 BTU/gallon of gasoline. There are 3413 BTU's per kw-hr of electricity. Check my math, but I believe that comes out to about 4.75 trillion kw-hrs of electricity to equal the energy content of that gasoline. But, we need to look at efficiency of gasoline powered vehicles compared to electric powered. Gasoline powered vehicles run about 25% efficient (energy delivered to wheels as % of total available energy in that gallon of gas). Electric vehicles are about 75% efficient. So only need 1/3 the amount of energy for electric compared to gasoline. That 4.75 trillion kw-hrs then becomes 1.58 trillion kw-hrs every year.
Diesel use in the US is about 47 billion gallons per year with 137,000 BTU/gallon. About 1.9 trillion kw-hrs. Using the same efficiency values, maybe 630 billion kw-hrs per year of electricity to replace diesel vehicles.

Someone younger can check my math and values. My arthritic slide rule and brain do not work well this early in the morning.

Might need new electrical service to the farm to charge the tractors and trucks. That single phase 240 volt service from that pole mounted transformer may not be enough.
 
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greybeard said:
look up Dallas Trolley buses. Dallas Railway and Terminal. The streetcars were electric too and ran on tracks but the electric trolley buses had tires and no tracks, but.. They could only go where the wires allowed them to and they had to have a turnaround at the end of their route.


http://www.trolleybuses.net/dal/dal.htm

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr1203/dts1048.jpg
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they've had electric cars around sinec before 1900. they did some races and they got one to go 1,000 miles.

By 1900, there were 4,192 vehicles on the streets of the US. Steam cars accounted for 1,681 of these; 1,575 were electric, and 936 had internal combustion engines.
 
Probably for social posturing reasons but I don't know why more city buses don't go the CNG route like the ones at DFW airport. They are very efficient, burn clean and have low maintenance requirements. Cost about $530K a piece. (They have lately bought a few electric buses also for that social posturing BS)

A lot of the gas is of the "renewable" type and is piped in form local land fills so its even a green thing.
 
simme said:
There are many electric buses in this area. Proterra manufactures them in Greenville, SC (area is also home to the largest BMW factory in the world, Michelin US headquarters, and Clemson University's I-CAR campus. That is their International Center for Automotive Research).

Clemson Area Transit is the public transit provider for Clemson University and surrounding towns. My understanding is that they are the first transit company in the US to have electric buses account for more than 50% of their fleet. Been running them for several years now. Proterra is based in Silicon Valley with Greenville being their east coast manufacturing facility.

Proterra website is pretty interesting with battery technology and drive technology for heavy duty vehicles. Might be a stock to buy and hold.

Electric vehicles are much more energy efficient than combustion engines but will require way more electrical generation capacity than we have now. That amount of energy released from burning millions of barrels of fossil fuel will have to come from the power plug to the battery charger for electric vehicles. May also be time to look at investment in nuclear power as well. Takes a lot of energy to push a bus - whether it is corn fed to the mules, a guy shoveling coal, a big diesel tank, or a power cord. BTU's, joules, calories, HP, KW (however you measure energy) - Still takes the same amount of delivered energy to the wheels to move the bus regardless of the source. Find the lowest cost most acceptable source and maximize the efficiency.

How SC investors saved this electric bus company now going public - Hypepotamus

Back in 2010, Proterra was on the brink of financial ruin. “Greenville’s Gang of 13" was there to help with a new investment.
hypepotamus.com hypepotamus.com
www.proterra.com

Our Story | Proterra

Proterra is a leader in the design and manufacture of zero-emission transit vehicles, reducing costs and delivering clean, quiet transportation for all.
www.proterra.com www.proterra.com
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They park the buses over charging pads or some technology at some stops. But electricity has to come from somewhere. Just because the end user is efficient doesn't mean the whole system is efficient. Cheap bus rides will likely mean that all electric customers will face rate hikes. Sort of the robbing Peter to pay Paul deal. The thing that would make bus systems efficient is to study the passengers and ride #s. Most town to town lines could be canceled and no productivity would be lost or needs not met. I know a guy who rode for a while to study the riders. Some were going to outside cities and towns to hit soup kitchens that had food that they preferred or to stores that were already in their own town. In other words, a lot of the hoopla about regional bus systems is welfare, plain and simple.
 
hurleyjd said:
If you will notice in the post that: On Tuesday, headlines indicating that the U.S. is down to a 25-day supply of diesel proliferated. Fox News host Tucker Carlson last week tweeted that "this country is about to run out of diesel fuel." That is where the panic started.

www.cbsnews.com

No, the U.S. is not going to run out of diesel fuel in 25 days

The U.S. has a 25 day supply of diesel fuel, but refineries are continuing to add to that.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com
Click to expand...
Johnny Carson started the toilet paper shortage with a joke.
 
have you guys seen how environmentally friendly these lithium mines are?

just so GREEN. who cares we don't even have enough lithium to power all this crap.. keep destroying.. to stop from.. uh... destroying. yea.. thats it!! who cares.. more chinese muslim slave labor will do the trick!!!

iu


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b.duke said:
have you guys seen how environmentally friendly these lithium mines are?

just so GREEN. who cares we don't even have enough lithium to power all this crap.. keep destroying.. to stop from.. uh... destroying. yea.. thats it!! who cares.. more chinese muslim slave labor will do the trick!!!

iu


ATTACH]
Click to expand...
Don't tell the greenies. They like the smug feeling.
 
Solution to climate change and environmental issues. Roll back the calendar a few hundred years. People live on a small farm, raise most of their food, barely heated small houses, transportation is walking, horses, mules. Energy use low - light from an oil lamp at night, light and heat from the sun during daylight, burn something for heat and cooking. No air conditioning or refrigeration. Stay close to home. Very little government. Some would embrace that way of life. Many would starve which would get the population down to help save the planet.
Otherwise, look for technology to allow an easier way of life and preservation of resources for the future generations. Main issue is too many people.
 
b.duke said:
have you guys seen how environmentally friendly these lithium mines are?

just so GREEN. who cares we don't even have enough lithium to power all this crap.. keep destroying.. to stop from.. uh... destroying. yea.. thats it!! who cares.. more chinese muslim slave labor will do the trick!!!



ATTACH]
Click to expand...
The top pic is not a lithium mine. It is the Chuquicamata copper mine in Chile.
 
rocfarm said:
I live in the city. Would love for them to go all electric. Main reason is that it would be quieter and we'd have cleaner air. Noise pollution is not fun to be around.

Anybody know how much more electricity it'd take to run all of the vehicles in the US? Kindda important to the discussion…
Click to expand...
I know Hoover dam is going to quit generating electricity pretty soon if the water levels keep dropping. I think it's something like thirty more feet and they shut down. The lake will be a "dead pool".
 
Anyone else see the irony in some of the claims environmental groups use to Try to shut down coal power plants?
The big push lately has been that the ash produced contains neurotoxins ,toxic chemicals and cancer causing chemicals such as lithium and cobalt,molybdenum,selenium,boron.
Wait what? Why are these key components of electric batteries, solar panels ect. Horrible when a product of coal powered electrical generation, but are great when mined and used in "green energy " to save the environment?
Does this make sense to anyone else?
 
simme said:
Solution to climate change and environmental issues. Roll back the calendar a few hundred years. People live on a small farm, raise most of their food, barely heated small houses, transportation is walking, horses, mules. Energy use low - light from an oil lamp at night, light and heat from the sun during daylight, burn something for heat and cooking. No air conditioning or refrigeration. Stay close to home. Very little government. Some would embrace that way of life. Many would starve which would get the population down to help save the planet.
Otherwise, look for technology to allow an easier way of life and preservation of resources for the future generations. Main issue is too many people.
Click to expand...
You forgot to mention an average life span of 35 (?) years.
 
hurleyjd said:
If you will notice in the post that: On Tuesday, headlines indicating that the U.S. is down to a 25-day supply of diesel proliferated. Fox News host Tucker Carlson last week tweeted that "this country is about to run out of diesel fuel." That is where the panic started.
Click to expand...
Wait so let me get this straight. The looming diesel shortage has been reported in the press heavily since at least august. Us government statement on oct 17 that us only has 25 day supply of diesel left lowest amount since 1950's
Fuel companies begin to issue statements of up coming shortages.
But it is the fault of a political commentator report that is at fault for this?
Give me a break. Diesel supply issues have been discussed on this board as well as all across the us for over a year.
Oh and the fact that #2 heating fuel and diesel are basically the same product.why would anyone think that the supply would further shrink. It's not like the demand for heating fuel goes up when the temperature goes down.
Everything would have been fine if that damn Sean Hannity would have kept his mouth shut. 🙄
 
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Rmc said:
Anyone else see the irony in some of the claims environmental groups use to Try to shut down coal power plants?
The big push lately has been that the ash produced contains neurotoxins ,toxic chemicals and cancer causing chemicals such as lithium and cobalt,molybdenum,selenium,boron.
Wait what? Why are these key components of electric batteries, solar panels ect. Horrible when a product of coal powered electrical generation, but are great when mined and used in "green energy " to save the environment?
Does this make sense to anyone else?
Click to expand...
I don't have to draw a conclusion about everything. I'm not required to fight every fight. I can form opinions that are so weak that I can still learn and change my mind.
The hard part is recognizing true expertise so I'm not believing everything from only one side. Good information doesn't take sides. It speaks to the logic involved instead of soliciting an emotional response. It can offer information from all sides of an issue.
 
Travlr said:
I don't have to draw a conclusion about everything. I'm not required to fight every fight. I can form opinions that are so weak that I can still learn and change my mind.
The hard part is recognizing true expertise so I'm not believing everything from only one side. Good information doesn't take sides. It speaks to the logic involved instead of soliciting an emotional response. It can offer information from all sides of an issue.
Click to expand...
Well said @Travlr
 
bird dog said:
Probably for social posturing reasons but I don't know why more city buses don't go the CNG route like the ones at DFW airport. They are very efficient, burn clean and have low maintenance requirements. Cost about $530K a piece. (They have lately bought a few electric buses also for that social posturing BS)

A lot of the gas is of the "renewable" type and is piped in form local land fills so its even a green thing.
Click to expand...
Methane?????

Ken
 
Here are some quotes from the above Foothill Transit electric bus report. It reads like Clown News. In addition, all this was payed in advance by the tax payers as well as Bidenbucks printed out of thin air. Here's my solution- Drill Baby Drill

"Advanced technology demonstrations typically experience new and sometimes unique challenges that need to be resolved to continue advancing the state of the technology. This section summarizes the primary challenges experienced by Foothill Transit during the evaluation.

BEB range—Foothill Transit reports that it still has range limitations because the current extended-range BEB technology cannot meet all its service blocks. Some planned blocks include interlines between multiple routes, which are too long for the BEBs. The agency is exploring options for meeting these more demanding routes with zero-emission buses (ZEBs) in the future.

On-route chargers—Deploying on-route chargers can be complicated and expensive. An agency needs to find the optimal site for charger installation and may need more than one site to cover multiple routes.

On-route charger availability—For on-route charged buses, availability of the charger is paramount for operating BEBs. Foothill Transit installed two chargers at its Pomona Transit Center to help avoid schedule delays and downtime of the fast-charge BEBs. In May 2020, one of the chargers experienced a thermal event in which electrical arcing at the charging interface ignited a fire during a charging event, damaging the charger and taking it out of service. When a similar event in October 2020 damaged the remining charger, the agency was forced to park the fast-charge BEB fleet and service the route with CNG buses until the chargers could be repaired. The extensive downtime for the chargers highlights the critical role of charger availability in successfully operating BEBs.

Coordination with charger installation and bus delivery—One of the biggest challenges Foothill Transit experienced with deploying its BEB 40E2 fleet was planning and installation of the charging infrastructure at the Arcadia facility. Delays in planning and construction resulted in the buses being delivered before Foothill Transit had the means to consistently charge the entire BEB fleet. Although bus delivery began in 2017, the agency was not able to put the buses in full service until early 2020, after the charging infrastructure had been completed and commissioned.

Foothill Transit has gained valuable experience in deploying BEBs. The agency highlights the following key recommendations for other agencies when considering deployment of BEBs: • Conduct a full analysis of your routes to identify the energy requirements to meet service. Use the data collected to model the number of BEBs that would be required. Some routes will be well suited for the current capabilities of electric buses" etc.

In addition, here is a whole page of videos of EV fires
 

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