Diesel prices - Campground

[dieselbeef]

okay thats agiven...build one somewhere else. then why aint they? why is refinery capacity always the crock theyre brewin us. now theyve got someone shootin up oil rigs offa the coast of africa or somehwre i ferget but THAT might drive the cost of gas over the 3.07 avg now....gimme a break.
clueless i might be...gullible i aint....gimme a break. its all about the money...period

 

[Campground Cattle]

okay thats agiven...build one somewhere else. then why aint they? why is refinery capacity always the crock theyre brewin us. now theyve got someone shootin up oil rigs offa the coast of africa or somehwre i ferget but THAT might drive the cost of gas over the 3.07 avg now....gimme a break.
clueless i might be...gullible i aint....gimme a break. its all about the money...period

They are in China right now ,as well China is drilling in the Gulf off Cuba. Do you think you go to Wal Mart and pick up the stuff to make a refinery some of the towers compressors etc. have to be ordered years out. Born Heaters in Tulsa has a two year delivery date if you order a furnace today.

 

[WORANCH]

Gas is a bargain . The first time I saw gas for a buck a gal. was in 1978 . I had just bought a new truck for $6000 . The last truck I bought was in 2001 for $34000. With the same inflation rate gas should be over $5 gal. Stop crying over the price of gas .


I see alot of trucks pulling boats to the lake ever weekend , maybe if gas was $6 gal they would stay at home .

 

[GMN]

Gas is a bargain . The first time I saw gas for a buck a gal. was in 1978 . I had just bought a new truck for $6000 . The last truck I bought was in 2001 for $34000. With the same inflation rate gas should be over $5 gal. Stop crying over the price of gas .


I see alot of trucks pulling boats to the lake ever weekend , maybe if gas was $6 gal they would stay at home .

Gas is hardly a bargain. With the high cost of everything, health insurance, groceries, gas, diesel, the one thing that has not gone up, is peoples' wages. If there isn't a change soon, alot of people are gonna be in a whole lot of hurt. Asfor the people you see pulling RVs with boats going to the lake, I doubt they care what the price of gas is, because they probably have money to burn. I'd say most people do not have money to burn, and instead of having an attitude where we shouldn't be complaining about gas, I think we should be complaining more, I think as a society everyone should be saying this is not acceptable, instead of just saying oh thats the way it goes, change doesn't happen when people conform, only when they act.

GMN

 

[aplusmnt]

Gas is a bargain . The first time I saw gas for a buck a gal. was in 1978 . I had just bought a new truck for $6000 . The last truck I bought was in 2001 for $34000. With the same inflation rate gas should be over $5 gal. Stop crying over the price of gas .


I see alot of trucks pulling boats to the lake ever weekend , maybe if gas was $6 gal they would stay at home .

Gas is hardly a bargain. With the high cost of everything, health insurance, groceries, gas, diesel, the one thing that has not gone up, is peoples' wages. If there isn't a change soon, alot of people are gonna be in a whole lot of hurt. Asfor the people you see pulling RVs with boats going to the lake, I doubt they care what the price of gas is, because they probably have money to burn. I'd say most people do not have money to burn, and instead of having an attitude where we shouldn't be complaining about gas, I think we should be complaining more, I think as a society everyone should be saying this is not acceptable, instead of just saying oh thats the way it goes, change doesn't happen when people conform, only when they act.

GMN

People should act, they should drive less or drive cars that get better gas mileage. But I think you are talking about the Government doing something and that is not what this country was founded on. The reason America is great is because companies and individuals can thrive for greatness.

If we cap the oil companies then what is next? Limits on Beef? Steaks are pretty high last time I looked in the meat market. What is then next? Doctors make less money?

If you look at the Oil industry it seems like a very good business to me. They meet there objective, they make money, they make money for stock holders. And people that work for them make top wages. Who should they be more like? Should they lower prices like wal-mart and then pay there employees $5.50 an hour? Seems a business that pays top pay, and makes the owners top money is what this Country was founded on!

Facts are facts, gas is no more expensive now than it was in the 80's wages have went up since then and so has good and services. People are just more in debt and want more than they did in the 80's. When I was a kid we had one TV with an antenna. Now people have TVs in every room with Satellite and Tivo. Get rid of these luxuries that people did not have in the 80's and gas would not seem so high.

Here are a few things that most people have that my parents did not have in 1980 when I was in High school and we never complained about gas prices.

Multiple TVs (Big, flat and plasma)
Satellite Service
Computers (some time multiple)
Cell phone (some time multiple)
Microwave
Central Air and heat
VCR
DVD
Ipod
Multiple Vehicles
Dishwasher

Get rid of some of these things and Gas will be more affordable. or make more money! I make more money now, my parents make more money most every friend I know makes more now than they use to.

 

[aplusmnt]

okay thats agiven...build one somewhere else. then why aint they? why is refinery capacity always the crock theyre brewin us. now theyve got someone shootin up oil rigs offa the coast of africa or somehwre i ferget but THAT might drive the cost of gas over the 3.07 avg now....gimme a break.
clueless i might be...gullible i aint....gimme a break. its all about the money...period

Some of you act like the oil companies are some sort of public service. Like a public school, police department or fire department.

They are a business! There objective is to make as much money as they can. Why can you not put big numbers into perspective. They invest Billions so they make Billions. I invested thousands in my business and I make thousands. If I invested Millions or billions I would want to make millions or billions.

Most oil companies do not even make double digit profit margin. I wonder if you guy know what a profit margin is, vs gross profit?

Lets put it in cow terms if Farmer A goes to sale and buys 100 cows at $1,000.00 each. He has invested $100,000 and he sells their calves at $500.00 each he brings in $50,000 in gross revenue.

But farmer B goes to the sale and buys 10 cows at $1,000.00 each he has $10,000.00 total investment. And sells the calves for total gross revenue of $5,000.00

Should the farmer A have to give up some of his revenue or profit just because he chose to buy 100 cows vs the Hobby guy that bought 10?

If oil companies invest Billions it only makes since they would have big total gross profits.

You want to go after someone go after Microsoft, Coca Cola, Credit cars companies that make 3 times or more the profit margin than the oil companies.

 

[dieselbeef]

are you really kiddin yerself into thinking that if we all stopped driving or got cars getting 100 mpg that the price would come down. i surely hope not.

this thread has gone places im sure it wasnt intended to but it makes a good point on different theorys.
myself...the oil cos are gouging us because they can. if they wanted to make more refineries they would..a long time ago. lemme guess... they never though we would keep using gas right....a suppose next youll stand up for the ins cos that ream ya for it after a hurricane...or maybe home depot for charging 1000 bucks for a 450 dollar generator. supply and demand right.....those of you backing the policy and operataives of big oil are in the minority..like it or not.
i buy a lot of fuel and it has seriously impacted my budget...not my wages..so inflate that...im outta here

 

[GMN]

Gas is a bargain . The first time I saw gas for a buck a gal. was in 1978 . I had just bought a new truck for $6000 . The last truck I bought was in 2001 for $34000. With the same inflation rate gas should be over $5 gal. Stop crying over the price of gas .


I see alot of trucks pulling boats to the lake ever weekend , maybe if gas was $6 gal they would stay at home .

Gas is hardly a bargain. With the high cost of everything, health insurance, groceries, gas, diesel, the one thing that has not gone up, is peoples' wages. If there isn't a change soon, alot of people are gonna be in a whole lot of hurt. Asfor the people you see pulling RVs with boats going to the lake, I doubt they care what the price of gas is, because they probably have money to burn. I'd say most people do not have money to burn, and instead of having an attitude where we shouldn't be complaining about gas, I think we should be complaining more, I think as a society everyone should be saying this is not acceptable, instead of just saying oh thats the way it goes, change doesn't happen when people conform, only when they act.

GMN

People should act, they should drive less or drive cars that get better gas mileage. But I think you are talking about the Government doing something and that is not what this country was founded on. The reason America is great is because companies and individuals can thrive for greatness.

If we cap the oil companies then what is next? Limits on Beef? Steaks are pretty high last time I looked in the meat market. What is then next? Doctors make less money?

If you look at the Oil industry it seems like a very good business to me. They meet there objective, they make money, they make money for stock holders. And people that work for them make top wages. Who should they be more like? Should they lower prices like wal-mart and then pay there employees $5.50 an hour? Seems a business that pays top pay, and makes the owners top money is what this Country was founded on!

Facts are facts, gas is no more expensive now than it was in the 80's wages have went up since then and so has good and services. People are just more in debt and want more than they did in the 80's. When I was a kid we had one TV with an antenna. Now people have TVs in every room with Satellite and Tivo. Get rid of these luxuries that people did not have in the 80's and gas would not seem so high.

Here are a few things that most people have that my parents did not have in 1980 when I was in High school and we never complained about gas prices.

Multiple TVs (Big, flat and plasma)
Satellite Service
Computers (some time multiple)
Cell phone (some time multiple)
Microwave
Central Air and heat
VCR
DVD
Ipod
Multiple Vehicles
Dishwasher

Get rid of some of these things and Gas will be more affordable. or make more money! I make more money now, my parents make more money most every friend I know makes more now than they use to.

Thats the point, the wages for middle class have not gone up in ration to the high cost of everything.

As for the oil companies, funny how the prices go up during the summer, holidays, etc... I think they do it on purpose, not out of necessity, to line their pockets more. Same product as 5 years ago, when we were only paying 1.39 a gallon, but now its 3.09 a gallon. You can't compare farming with the oil business, no comparison.

I wasn't talking about the govt doing anything, I was talking about individuals doing something, what that something is, not sure. I think the govt has done enough, they are partially to blame already for these high fuel prices, but this isn't about that.

Enough said.

GMN

 

[Campground Cattle]

are you really kiddin yerself into thinking that if we all stopped driving or got cars getting 100 mpg that the price would come down. i surely hope not.

this thread has gone places im sure it wasnt intended to but it makes a good point on different theorys.
myself...the oil cos are gouging us because they can. if they wanted to make more refineries they would..a long time ago. lemme guess... they never though we would keep using gas right....a suppose next youll stand up for the ins cos that ream ya for it after a hurricane...or maybe home depot for charging 1000 bucks for a 450 dollar generator. supply and demand right.....those of you backing the policy and operataives of big oil are in the minority..like it or not.
i buy a lot of fuel and it has seriously impacted my budget...not my wages..so inflate that...im outta here

You are truely lost it takes over five years to get the government permits to build a new unit on an exsisting site, and a lot longer on a new facility.
Talk about a a business gamble if you went to planing a new unit today it would take five years to get the permits to operate then another three years for the equipment to be built and another two in construction to bring your new process unit on line. By this time the government will have changed the regs ten times and your new unit want make on spec product.
The industry is regulated to death thats why there have been no new refineries built since the mid seventies. A lot of operating units were built in WWII for the war and we had excess capacity in this country. Surprise its been used up. The last unit we built in the late seventies cost 3 billion.

 

[aplusmnt]

Thats the point, the wages for middle class have not gone up in ration to the high cost of everything.

As for the oil companies, funny how the prices go up during the summer, holidays, etc... I think they do it on purpose, not out of necessity, to line their pockets more. Same product as 5 years ago, when we were only paying 1.39 a gallon, but now its 3.09 a gallon. You can't compare farming with the oil business, no comparison.

I wasn't talking about the govt doing anything, I was talking about individuals doing something, what that something is, not sure. I think the govt has done enough, they are partially to blame already for these high fuel prices, but this isn't about that.

Enough said.

GMN

There is nothing we the consumer can do except use less and lower the demand.

The problem is that $3.00 a gallon gas is not High gasoline. The problem is $1.39 a gallon 5 years ago was to cheap! It spoiled everyone. Gasoline had not kept up with inflation, and we got spoiled. Now as the markets make adjustments and put gas prices at where they probably should have been all along to keep up with value of the dollar.

A comparable example is Minimum wage. Wages need to increase by say 2%-3% a year to keep up with inflation. If 7 years ago bussinesses would have increased wages by 2% or 10 cents and then did so every single year afterwards everything would work out. But instead minimum wage stayed at $5.15 and now in near future it is going to make a $2.00 per hour jump in just a years time. That is making up for inflation in one big jump. Kind of like gasoline is doing now.

The pencil does not lie. This is a fact that can be proved beyond doubt. If you made adjustments for inflation gas back in 1981 would have been $3.11 per gallon. These are just pure hard facts!

[/img]

 

[aplusmnt]

"In 1995 American drivers burned about 17 million more gallons of gasoline a day than the country produced, according to the government's Energy Information Administration. The difference was made up for by imports.

By 2005, the latest figures available, the gap had widened considerably to about 36 million."


That is per day, not per year! How can there not be a crunch on pricing with those type of figures? Any market would have big swings in this situation.

 

[Horse Guy]

honestly though...theyre makin billions per qtr profit.

too bad were all assumed to be so stupid that we would believe that spew from the oil cos.
refinery issues..shrtages...hurricanes..blah,blah,blah..all BS!!!

almost as bad as taxes and insurance now....

It just easier to be ignorant isn't it? We haven't built a refinery in this country in nearly 40 years. Of course we have less cars on the road today. We won't even get into EPA regs. for different blends for different parts of the country.

it seems proclaimed shortages areonly to control supplys. if i could sell waaaayy more than i could produce wouldnt i make it possible so i could produce more?? i cant imagine anyone not making more product for a product so in demand...except to keep profits high by making shortages.
if i could sell twice as many cows it would enable me to buy more land to sell more cows to buy more land....or am i being ignorant agian. sounds kinda like the bs they fed us about antifreeze and only one u.s. plant making glycol..what a load of crap!

Why would they build a refinery? It would just put the price down at the pumps.
Look I used to work on the oil [patch. When oil prices go down the oil companies just keep on drilling. They cap the wells and its like money in the bank for them. They can actually use the caped wells as colateral. Its just like cash in the bank for them. Then when the price goes up they pump out the oil and sell it.

 

[Horse Guy]

comon now. if they wanted another refinery there would be one whenever theyre ready. theyre still building nuclear plants arent they?? :

Interesting that you bring this up. Remember how the hippies 30 years ago hated nuclear plants? Remember the protests? Now these baby booming enviromental wackos are all into the global warming religeon. Now these same idiots see nuclear energy as a great thing that will save us from global climate change. Follow the money! Everybody is getting rich now a days except regular people who are not in the energy business.

 

[aplusmnt]

honestly though...theyre makin billions per qtr profit.

too bad were all assumed to be so stupid that we would believe that spew from the oil cos.
refinery issues..shrtages...hurricanes..blah,blah,blah..all BS!!!

almost as bad as taxes and insurance now....

It just easier to be ignorant isn't it? We haven't built a refinery in this country in nearly 40 years. Of course we have less cars on the road today. We won't even get into EPA regs. for different blends for different parts of the country.

it seems proclaimed shortages areonly to control supplys. if i could sell waaaayy more than i could produce wouldnt i make it possible so i could produce more?? i cant imagine anyone not making more product for a product so in demand...except to keep profits high by making shortages.
if i could sell twice as many cows it would enable me to buy more land to sell more cows to buy more land....or am i being ignorant agian. sounds kinda like the bs they fed us about antifreeze and only one u.s. plant making glycol..what a load of crap!

Why would they build a refinery? It would just put the price down at the pumps.
Look I used to work on the oil [patch. When oil prices go down the oil companies just keep on drilling. They cap the wells and its like money in the bank for them. They can actually use the caped wells as colateral. Its just like cash in the bank for them. Then when the price goes up they pump out the oil and sell it.

If they do not want to build refineries then why have proposals been denied to build them?

And if they really do not want to build more refineries I would not blame them, the EPA and enviro crazies have it so hard to operate one maybe they do not want the added headache?

 

[mnmtranching]

How much of our gasoline/oil is being shipped overseas?

This is just a question...not a comment.

Alice

Most of the crude coming out of Alaska, now goes to the Pacific Rim Country's. Why? The US does not have refinery capacity on the West Coast, so, it goes to the highest bidder. and less cost shipping to the Pacific Rim country's.

 

[Campground Cattle]

honestly though...theyre makin billions per qtr profit.

too bad were all assumed to be so stupid that we would believe that spew from the oil cos.
refinery issues..shrtages...hurricanes..blah,blah,blah..all BS!!!

almost as bad as taxes and insurance now....

It just easier to be ignorant isn't it? We haven't built a refinery in this country in nearly 40 years. Of course we have less cars on the road today. We won't even get into EPA regs. for different blends for different parts of the country.

it seems proclaimed shortages areonly to control supplys. if i could sell waaaayy more than i could produce wouldnt i make it possible so i could produce more?? i cant imagine anyone not making more product for a product so in demand...except to keep profits high by making shortages.
if i could sell twice as many cows it would enable me to buy more land to sell more cows to buy more land....or am i being ignorant agian. sounds kinda like the bs they fed us about antifreeze and only one u.s. plant making glycol..what a load of crap!

Why would they build a refinery? It would just put the price down at the pumps.
Look I used to work on the oil [patch. When oil prices go down the oil companies just keep on drilling. They cap the wells and its like money in the bank for them. They can actually use the caped wells as colateral. Its just like cash in the bank for them. Then when the price goes up they pump out the oil and sell it.

There is no oil shortage, there is a refining shortage. You can pump all you want out the ground if you can't refine, it is virtually worthless.
We are not keeping up with the technology that is available that refines more of the barrel to gasoline.
Are you driving a 35 year old car? Thats our newest refinery.
The latest major upgrade we went through was in the late 1960's. As our infrastucture ages cost to maintain goes up.

 

[Horse Guy]

Well its the same deal in Canada. No new refineries in years and years. I dont know if its because of EPA type crap or not. But gosh almighty something has to be done. We are at $5 a gallon!!!
Irving is talking about building a refinery in NB but this is a decade away.
Plus up here its like in the States as far as the people who actually have the power to change things. Example one side is pro oil profits and the other side is pro enviromental. But neither side is even talking about anything that will get the cost down to consumers.
Yet every normal working person that I know of is hurting over high fuel prices.
Man everything is going to heck up here. All the good stuff in life like trucks, guns, tobbacco, beer, etc is just getting to expensive/regulated out of the reach of the average guy. Gosh what kind of life will future generations have?
Whats left to live for?
Ive got the Red Neck Blues<grin>

 

[aplusmnt]

honestly though...theyre makin billions per qtr profit.

too bad were all assumed to be so stupid that we would believe that spew from the oil cos.
refinery issues..shrtages...hurricanes..blah,blah,blah..all BS!!!

almost as bad as taxes and insurance now....

It just easier to be ignorant isn't it? We haven't built a refinery in this country in nearly 40 years. Of course we have less cars on the road today. We won't even get into EPA regs. for different blends for different parts of the country.

it seems proclaimed shortages areonly to control supplys. if i could sell waaaayy more than i could produce wouldnt i make it possible so i could produce more?? i cant imagine anyone not making more product for a product so in demand...except to keep profits high by making shortages.
if i could sell twice as many cows it would enable me to buy more land to sell more cows to buy more land....or am i being ignorant agian. sounds kinda like the bs they fed us about antifreeze and only one u.s. plant making glycol..what a load of crap!

Why would they build a refinery? It would just put the price down at the pumps.
Look I used to work on the oil [patch. When oil prices go down the oil companies just keep on drilling. They cap the wells and its like money in the bank for them. They can actually use the caped wells as colateral. Its just like cash in the bank for them. Then when the price goes up they pump out the oil and sell it.

There is no oil shortage, there is a refining shortage. You can pump all you want out the ground if you can't refine, it is virtually worthless.
We are not keeping up with the technology that is available that refines more of the barrel to gasoline.
Are you driving a 35 year old car? Thats our newest refinery.
The latest major upgrade we went through was in the late 1960's. As our infrastucture ages cost to maintain goes up.

Camp can you tell us anymore about the attempt to build or expand refineries? Have they been completely denied or are they going through so much red tape they are years away? Or have the oil companies gave up on trying to obtain new ones?

Is it a logistics problem, do we need them on the coast for transportation ease but not allowed in places like California? Is desolate places like Nevada desert to far away to build them?

 

[aplusmnt]

Man everything is going to heck up here. All the good stuff in life like trucks, guns, tobbacco, beer, etc is just getting to expensive/regulated out of the reach of the average guy. Gosh what kind of life will future generations have?
Whats left to live for?
Ive got the Red Neck Blues<grin>

:lol: Sorry to laugh but that is funny.

 

[Campground Cattle]

honestly though...theyre makin billions per qtr profit.

too bad were all assumed to be so stupid that we would believe that spew from the oil cos.
refinery issues..shrtages...hurricanes..blah,blah,blah..all BS!!!

almost as bad as taxes and insurance now....

It just easier to be ignorant isn't it? We haven't built a refinery in this country in nearly 40 years. Of course we have less cars on the road today. We won't even get into EPA regs. for different blends for different parts of the country.

it seems proclaimed shortages areonly to control supplys. if i could sell waaaayy more than i could produce wouldnt i make it possible so i could produce more?? i cant imagine anyone not making more product for a product so in demand...except to keep profits high by making shortages.
if i could sell twice as many cows it would enable me to buy more land to sell more cows to buy more land....or am i being ignorant agian. sounds kinda like the bs they fed us about antifreeze and only one u.s. plant making glycol..what a load of crap!

Why would they build a refinery? It would just put the price down at the pumps.
Look I used to work on the oil [patch. When oil prices go down the oil companies just keep on drilling. They cap the wells and its like money in the bank for them. They can actually use the caped wells as colateral. Its just like cash in the bank for them. Then when the price goes up they pump out the oil and sell it.

There is no oil shortage, there is a refining shortage. You can pump all you want out the ground if you can't refine, it is virtually worthless.
We are not keeping up with the technology that is available that refines more of the barrel to gasoline.
Are you driving a 35 year old car? Thats our newest refinery.
The latest major upgrade we went through was in the late 1960's. As our infrastucture ages cost to maintain goes up.

Camp can you tell us anymore about the attempt to build or expand refineries? Have they been completely denied or are they going through so much red tape they are years away? Or have the oil companies gave up on trying to obtain new ones?

Is it a logistics problem, do we need them on the coast for transportation ease but not allowed in places like California? Is desolate places like Nevada desert to far away to build them?

We are starting to plan a few new units predicted start up dates are 2012. These will replace old process units, not really adding any capacity. It takes lots of energy to produce energy here is where it gets sticky due to EPA regs you are only allowed so much CO and CO2 emissions from furnaces required in the process to make fuel. So in a nutshell you can't put more units on site.
We do not have a logistical problem on moving product as the country is divided into five defense districts for products.
Logistics problems come's on crude the cheapest way to move the volumes needed is waterborne or pipeline.