Diesel prices - Campground

[TXBobcat]

Since Camp is our resident expert on fuel and its refining I thought I would ask his opinion on this subject, but anyone else feel free to chime in on the matter.

A few months ago I traded in my gas guzzling 318 Dodge 1500 for a Dodge Cummins 2500. The gasser got about 14-15 mpg and I am getting 17-18 out of the Cummins. I have noticed that diesel is recently started to fall below the price of unleaded around here (Waco area). I just paid 2.58 for diesel, and the 87 unleaded was 2.77 at Flying J. I couldn't be happier, that is unless it keeps falling.

Are diesel prices going to continue to fall? Have the refineries ironed out all the wringles in meeting gov standards for diesel?

I am thinking that the refineries are producing more diesel than the consumers are using so that is why it has fallen below unleaded.

Also, would you recommend running a lubricant in a diesel because I understand that the process that removes the sulphur also removes the lubricity of the diesel. I just picked up some Howe's meaner cleaner additive, and I am on my second tank with it.

 

[cattleluvr18]

i dont know, but i also noticed that diesel is about 10 cents cheapin then unleaded. do you think this excuse would get my dad to finally buy me that ford i got my eye on unstead of my suburban? :lol:

 

[dieselbeef]

the word is that the lost lubricity your talking about is the sulfur content. the truck technically should be finne as the additive has been replaced in the refining process. added that is. depending on the yr of the trucl. 07 or newer will run new fuel fine but no old, bad for the particulate filters and the afterburn systems. older than that...previous 06 will burn anything.
additives are good. stanadyne..marvel mystery oil,diesel kleen are all good. not in a newer truck though. previous 06.
technically what is in the pumps at the flyin j is ulsd fuel and is supposed to be good to run in anything.
my 02 gets diesel kleen and marvel mystery oil. my 95 will burn anything. including a 50% used mtr oil after straining and settling.
pump pressure and tolerances are the primary reason fo the diff.

 

[TXBobcat]

I found the following from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_low_sulphur_diesel

Sulfur is not a lubricant, however the process used to reduce the Sulfur also reduces the fuel's lubricating properties. Lubricity is a measure of the fuel's ability to lubricate and protect the various parts of the engine's fuel injection system from wear. The processing required to reduce sulfur to 15 ppm also removes naturally-occurring lubricity agents in diesel fuel. To manage this change ASTM International (formerly the American Society for Testing and Materials) adopted the lubricity specification defined in ASTM D975 for all diesel fuels and this standard went into effect January 1, 2005

 

[Campground Cattle]

Since Camp is our resident expert on fuel and its refining I thought I would ask his opinion on this subject, but anyone else feel free to chime in on the matter.

A few months ago I traded in my gas guzzling 318 Dodge 1500 for a Dodge Cummins 2500. The gasser got about 14-15 mpg and I am getting 17-18 out of the Cummins. I have noticed that diesel is recently started to fall below the price of unleaded around here (Waco area). I just paid 2.58 for diesel, and the 87 unleaded was 2.77 at Flying J. I couldn't be happier, that is unless it keeps falling.

Are diesel prices going to continue to fall? Have the refineries ironed out all the wringles in meeting gov standards for diesel?

I am thinking that the refineries are producing more diesel than the consumers are using so that is why it has fallen below unleaded.

Also, would you recommend running a lubricant in a diesel because I understand that the process that removes the sulphur also removes the lubricity of the diesel. I just picked up some Howe's meaner cleaner additive, and I am on my second tank with it.

There are more process units coming on line that have been down since Rita. This is going to ease diesel somewhat for fuel oil and such. It still doesn't ease highway diesel until refiners build new units to produce ULSD if they opt in.
We are now producing 30,000 BPD of ULSD we used to produce 140,000 BPD of highway diesel. We just don't have the desulferation capacity. The EPA specs went from 450 PPM to 15 PPM we can not produce the volume we used to and meet EPA specs.

 

[dieselbeef]

honestly though...theyre makin billions per qtr profit.

too bad were all assumed to be so stupid that we would believe that spew from the oil cos.
refinery issues..shrtages...hurricanes..blah,blah,blah..all BS!!!

almost as bad as taxes and insurance now....

 

[mnmtranching]

I think the main reason fuel prices are so high, is the world market.
And it's only begun. China will soon be the worlds largest user of petroleum.

 

[aplusmnt]

honestly though...theyre makin billions per qtr profit.

too bad were all assumed to be so stupid that we would believe that spew from the oil cos.
refinery issues..shrtages...hurricanes..blah,blah,blah..all BS!!!

almost as bad as taxes and insurance now....

You want to talk crazy profits?

In 2004 America was buying about 382 million gallons of gasoline per day. The average tax per gallon of gas nationwide is 42 cents per gallon. That means the State and Federal government collected 160 million dollars per day in gas taxes.

Figure that for the whole year and state and federal governments received around 58 Billion Dollars for just one year. I wonder what there profit margin was on this? Bet it was a lot higher than the oil companies!

That is $58,000,000,000 the government gets a year off of the gas we buy. And that does not count the income taxes that they also collect from oil companies and their employees. The Government is making 100's of billions of dollars off of the oil industry every year!

 

[Campground Cattle]

honestly though...theyre makin billions per qtr profit.

too bad were all assumed to be so stupid that we would believe that spew from the oil cos.
refinery issues..shrtages...hurricanes..blah,blah,blah..all BS!!!

almost as bad as taxes and insurance now....

It just easier to be ignorant isn't it? We haven't built a refinery in this country in nearly 40 years. Of course we have less cars on the road today. We won't even get into EPA regs. for different blends for different parts of the country.

 

[TXBobcat]

Thanks for replying Camp. I always enjoy reading your insight on these matters.

As far as the lubricity of this new ULSD, would you recommend running an additive with each tank, or does it already have enough in the diesel? I am running an '04.5 Dodge Cummins.

 

[dieselbeef]

honestly though...theyre makin billions per qtr profit.

too bad were all assumed to be so stupid that we would believe that spew from the oil cos.
refinery issues..shrtages...hurricanes..blah,blah,blah..all BS!!!

almost as bad as taxes and insurance now....

It just easier to be ignorant isn't it? We haven't built a refinery in this country in nearly 40 years. Of course we have less cars on the road today. We won't even get into EPA regs. for different blends for different parts of the country.

it seems proclaimed shortages areonly to control supplys. if i could sell waaaayy more than i could produce wouldnt i make it possible so i could produce more?? i cant imagine anyone not making more product for a product so in demand...except to keep profits high by making shortages.
if i could sell twice as many cows it would enable me to buy more land to sell more cows to buy more land....or am i being ignorant agian. sounds kinda like the bs they fed us about antifreeze and only one u.s. plant making glycol..what a load of crap!

 

[MikeC]

if i could sell twice as many cows it would enable me to buy more land to sell more cows to buy more land

You could make more money by doubling/tripling the price of your cows and still sell the same number each year.

If this was the case, you wouldn't need to buy more land and have the added expenses.

 

[dieselbeef]

yeah but then id be just like big oil and everyone thinks theyre s++tbags

mayeb we could stockpile thousands of cows for a yr and then triple the price to drive our profits up....or better yet just stop farming til the price of beef equals gas (well just tell em we aint growin any more) and then well all be rich!!!
oh yeah..thats what the oil comp does and everyone thinks theyre scum.
dang..just cant figure it out??? me either....

 

[aplusmnt]

honestly though...theyre makin billions per qtr profit.

too bad were all assumed to be so stupid that we would believe that spew from the oil cos.
refinery issues..shrtages...hurricanes..blah,blah,blah..all BS!!!

almost as bad as taxes and insurance now....

It just easier to be ignorant isn't it? We haven't built a refinery in this country in nearly 40 years. Of course we have less cars on the road today. We won't even get into EPA regs. for different blends for different parts of the country.

it seems proclaimed shortages areonly to control supplys. if i could sell waaaayy more than i could produce wouldnt i make it possible so i could produce more?? i cant imagine anyone not making more product for a product so in demand...except to keep profits high by making shortages.
if i could sell twice as many cows it would enable me to buy more land to sell more cows to buy more land....or am i being ignorant agian. sounds kinda like the bs they fed us about antifreeze and only one u.s. plant making glycol..what a load of crap!

Little simpler with cows than refineries. If you want to compare apples to apples then go try to buy some land in downtown Las Angeles with the intent on raising cattle on it. You will then find some of the same difficulties that arise when new refineries are proposed.

Do you have any idea all the red tape and near impossible regulations that confront any new drilling, transporting or refineries? Have you ever heard of the EPA? Have you ever heard of the Global Warming nuts that are against almost any logical plan to help ease the gas crunch?

Do you know how many more people drive in America, China or India now than did in say the 1980's?

Do you have any idea how much more gallons of gas world wide are being used today than say 20 years ago?

Understanding the gas crunch, take lots of time and effort to research and understand all the pieces of the puzzle. It is a lot more complicated than just pointing fingers and whining about it.

Personally I am more worried about the price of Steel, I need fence post, wire and some metal buildings built. I can afford the gas I use but these farm projects numbers are not looking good if I intend on making a profit in near future. I bet you did not realize the price of steel, lumber and Gas all have a common denominator did you?

 

[Alice]

How much of our gasoline/oil is being shipped overseas?

This is just a question...not a comment.

Alice

 

[aplusmnt]

How much of our gasoline/oil is being shipped overseas?

This is just a question...not a comment.

Alice

I believe we export around 20,000 barrels a day. A lot of it goes to Canada and then comes back as gasoline. I think a part of that goes to Mexico but not sure if it comes back as gas.

I might be wrong so camp or anyone who knows but I think most gets exported because of lack of refineries. And most of it we end up buying back through products such as gasoline.

20,000 barrels sounds like a lot but compared to like 10,000,000 we import daily it is just a fraction.

 

[Campground Cattle]

How much of our gasoline/oil is being shipped overseas?

This is just a question...not a comment.

Alice

I believe we export around 20,000 barrels a day. A lot of it goes to Canada and then comes back as gasoline. I think a part of that goes to Mexico but not sure if it comes back as gas.

I might be wrong so camp or anyone who knows but I think most gets exported because of lack of refineries. And most of it we end up buying back through products such as gasoline.

20,000 barrels sounds like a lot but compared to like 10,000,000 we import daily it is just a fraction.

A lot of fuel oils like diesel and kerosene leave. It's a commodities market going to the highest bidder. EPA regs make it tough on importing gasoline. Todays gasoline has almost a dollar in taxes and ethanol cost with is required by government regulations at least 10% volume. Not all of a barrel of oil goes to gasoline we have the technology to convert gas oils, diesel to gasoline and have been doing so since WWII. Gasoline is driven by refining being super tight with no room for shutdowns of operating units which are required under law for perodic inspections and repairs, this is required as a license to operate. The terminal in Atlanta can be running over and the one in Dallas dry and we can not move the product under EPA regs. as each region has to be formulated to EPA specs for that region. We no longer make three grades of gasoline we make a hundred varitions of those three grades.

 

[backhoeboogie]

I just paid 2.58 for diesel, and the 87 unleaded was 2.77 at Flying J. I couldn't be happier, that is unless it keeps falling.

I looked on the way home. Diesel is still right around $2.95 or higher at the stations in town here. I'm ready for it to get to $2.58

 

[dieselbeef]

no way anyone can make excuses or justify the price of gas when they can post qtry..QRTLY NOW!!!...profits in the billions....BILLIONS.
after the hurricanes here the insurance companys that were not paying cliams cuz they had no money???? posted huge gains for the year.

if your gonna be crying poverty and how hard things are its pretty hard for me to swallow how bad things are for ya when your stockholders are making record dividends in what you profess to be your worst year....

comon now. if they wanted another refinery there would be one whenever theyre ready. theyre still building nuclear plants arent they?? and guess what just went up now...the price of uranium. from 10$ to 120$. since 5 new plants are on the table nationaly. the mines right down the road havent mined it for 30 yrs. but now they will cuz the price is right...cuz the demand is high......supply and demand.....y

you want it.... they got it.... youll pay for it....ask yer wife!!! :lol:

 

[Campground Cattle]

no way anyone can make excuses or justify the price of gas when they can post qtry..QRTLY NOW!!!...profits in the billions....BILLIONS.
after the hurricanes here the insurance companys that were not paying cliams cuz they had no money???? posted huge gains for the year.

if your gonna be crying poverty and how hard things are its pretty hard for me to swallow how bad things are for ya when your stockholders are making record dividends in what you profess to be your worst year....

comon now. if they wanted another refinery there would be one whenever theyre ready. theyre still building nuclear plants arent they?? and guess what just went up now...the price of uranium. from 10$ to 120$. since 5 new plants are on the table nationaly. the mines right down the road havent mined it for 30 yrs. but now they will cuz the price is right...cuz the demand is high......supply and demand.....y

you want it.... they got it.... youll pay for it....ask yer wife!!! :lol:

You are truely clueless, why would you build a refinery in this country when you could build one anywhere else in the world without all the government regs. Why would you refine products to meet the regs in this country when you can sell them all oer the world again.
By the way oil companies make a lot of those billions from people buying water.