Deworming.

[ksmit454]

Vet is coming tomorrow so I'm going to ask him also. But you all here are so knowledgable so I wanted to ask! I usually deworm once a year, in the spring. I have done ivermectin pour on, then last year I did safeguard oral, and this year I was thinking of using Eprinex pour on (because I found 2 bottles at 35% off at my work!). Anyway, thoughts? Some say deworming is a waste of time, some say you can overdo deworming too. Thoughts on using Eprinex pour on this round? Not really sure what to look for as far as treatment goes if you don't really know what you're treating, ya know?

 

[bird dog]

Any of three will work. Some say you should switch around, some say that makes them resistant to all of the wormers and you should stick with one until it quits working.
If you are going to do them once a year, I would do them in the late fall so they don't keep the worms all winter and give the worms a fresh start in the spring when they exit in the manure. Also try to give them a injection type wormer or both.
For me, I don't worry much about cows 5 years old and older unless they look like they need it. If they come into the chute, I worm them, if not, they don't get it. For the rest, the calves get generic (noromectin) ivermectin. The cows get Cydectin. I also worm any cow that comes onto the property from elsewhere regardless of what time of year it is.
The calves get wormed at first work if they are a couple months old and for sure at weaning if I am keeping them a while longer.

Let us know what the vet says.

 

[Ebenezer]

Not going to say yea or nay. But I do FECs and most calves here did not need worming. Now if liver flukes are an issue - you'd better worm with the correct meds regularly. At least you will get the lice off this time of year. Nothing over 3 YO has been wormed in 15+/- years. Even run sheep without needing to worm but I have the right sheep and do FECs.

 

[ksmit454]

Not going to say yea or nay. But I do FECs and most calves here did not need worming. Now if liver flukes are an issue - you'd better worm with the correct meds regularly. At least you will get the lice off this time of year. Nothing over 3 YO has been wormed in 15+/- years. Even run sheep without needing to worm but I have the right sheep and do FECs.

How do you do the FECs? I mean I can go around and pick up samples from patties but not sure how I would do fecal since the whole herd is out on pasture. Is it kind of the idea that if you test a few they are all probably, ok? I am going to ask my vet this question too.

 

[Ebenezer]

How do you do the FECs? I mean I can go around and pick up samples from patties but not sure how I would do fecal since the whole herd is out on pasture. Is it kind of the idea that if you test a few they are all probably, ok? I am going to ask my vet this question too.

I use a glove and scoop out a sample from inside the animal via a finger or two. Flip the glove inside out, tie a knot and put a number with a sharpie. Drop it in a cooler with an ice pack. I bought a used microscope and taught myself via YouTube and asking smart people.

 

[TCRanch]

I would definitely rely on what your vet has to say tomorrow. Geography means a lot. But FWIW, I don't worm any cows older than 3 unless they're looking a little too thin, don't have a glossy coat. I've been using Cydectin but I also discuss with my vet every year to see if it's time to change/switch things up, not worm at all, etc.

 

[ksmit454]

I use a glove and scoop out a sample from inside the animal via a finger or two. Flip the glove inside out, tie a knot and put a number with a sharpie. Drop it in a cooler with an ice pack. I bought a used microscope and taught myself via YouTube and asking smart people.

Wow that's really neat you learned how to do it yourself! And I never thought about actually going in to grab the manure. Makes sense though!

 

[ksmit454]

I would definitely rely on what your vet has to say tomorrow. Geography means a lot. But FWIW, I don't worm any cows older than 3 unless they're looking a little too thin, don't have a glossy coat. I've been using Cydectin but I also discuss with my vet every year to see if it's time to change/switch things up, not worm at all, etc.

Will let you know what my vet says tomorrow

 

[ksmit454]

I'm also trying to put together a list of questions since our local 2 vets that come to see cattle are very difficult to get ahold of

 

[Ebenezer]

Wow that's really neat you learned how to do it yourself! And I never thought about actually going in to grab the manure. Makes sense though!

Just don't discuss at a social or church meal.

 

[kenny thomas]

I use a glove and scoop out a sample from inside the animal via a finger or two. Flip the glove inside out, tie a knot and put a number with a sharpie. Drop it in a cooler with an ice pack. I bought a used microscope and taught myself via YouTube and asking smart people.

I have considered doing this also. Give me some pointers on what microscope to get

 

[faster horses]

Even most vets don't have the proper equipment to diagnose internal parasites. They need what is known as a Wisconsin spinner to find the parasites and eggs. Most vets use a machine for dogs. Using your own microscope is not going to do the job.

Strategic deworming is what is recommended. It's a different time in different areas. We are in the north so strategic deworming is done 6 weeks after turn out. That cleans up the worms in both cows and calves and cleans up your pastures too.
We've run a lot of fecals on customers cattle and they do have parasites. Even in dry country. We recommend deworming in the fall when their is no chance of the ground warming up. Temperature and moisture propagate worms.
What we have found ,without exception, that the YOUNGER cattle tend to be more parasite infected than the older cows. When you do deworm, deworm them ALL or the ones you didn't deworm will re-infect the ones that were.
I did a quick search and found this:

How often and when do I need to deworm my cattle? – Beef Cattle

I hope this helps.

Hope this helps.

 

[ksmit454]

Even most vets don't have the proper equipment to diagnose internal parasites. They need what is known as a Wisconsin spinner to find the parasites and eggs. Most vets use a machine for dogs. Using your own microscope is not going to do the job.

Strategic deworming is what is recommended. It's a different time in different areas. We are in the north so strategic deworming is done 6 weeks after turn out. That cleans up the worms in both cows and calves and cleans up your pastures too.
We've run a lot of fecals on customers cattle and they do have parasites. Even in dry country. We recommend deworming in the fall when their is no chance of the ground warming up. Temperature and moisture propagate worms.
What we have found ,without exception, that the YOUNGER cattle tend to be more parasite infected than the older cows. When you do deworm, deworm them ALL or the ones you didn't deworm will re-infect the ones that were.
I did a quick search and found this:

How often and when do I need to deworm my cattle? – Beef Cattle

I hope this helps.

Hope this helps.

Interesting! That info was very helpful thank you. I'm going to talk to my vet tomorrow but I like the approach of deworming in the fall.

 

[sstterry]

I use a glove and scoop out a sample from inside the animal via a finger or two. Flip the glove inside out, tie a knot and put a number with a sharpie. Drop it in a cooler with an ice pack. I bought a used microscope and taught myself via YouTube and asking smart people.

Can I mail you mine to test?

 

[Ebenezer]

I have considered doing this also. Give me some pointers on what microscope to get

I'll look again but I think it is a 100X lense that I use and you want a mechanical platform so that you can use the knobs to move the McMaster slides side to side and up and down smoothly to count. I got a used one that has a light to illuminate the slide from the bottom and that has been good. The other choice is monocular or binocular. That is a personal choice. I got binocular but I surveyed for so many years it has been a challenge to train both eyes to "look"!

 

[Ebenezer]

Even most vets don't have the proper equipment to diagnose internal parasites. They need what is known as a Wisconsin spinner to find the parasites and eggs. Most vets use a machine for dogs. Using your own microscope is not going to do the job.

Strategic deworming is what is recommended. It's a different time in different areas. We are in the north so strategic deworming is done 6 weeks after turn out. That cleans up the worms in both cows and calves and cleans up your pastures too.
We've run a lot of fecals on customers cattle and they do have parasites. Even in dry country. We recommend deworming in the fall when their is no chance of the ground warming up. Temperature and moisture propagate worms.
What we have found ,without exception, that the YOUNGER cattle tend to be more parasite infected than the older cows. When you do deworm, deworm them ALL or the ones you didn't deworm will re-infect the ones that were.
I did a quick search and found this:

How often and when do I need to deworm my cattle? – Beef Cattle

I hope this helps.

Hope this helps.

A lot of problems here. FECs work well. They do represent only a part of a day in a cows life via the sample but I have never heard a large animal Vet require a centrifuged sample. Take a look at extension information and you will see that. In dogs and pet, there are some disconnects between reality and the cost of care. Not so much in commercially managed herds.

The goal is not to worm any more than need worming. Refugia in untreated (didn't need worming) will protect the worming products from becoming ineffective. In other words, the least used on the fewest animals - the better. The remaining population of parasites will have the least exposure to dewormers so that when worming is needed, the dewormer is effective.

Deworming is not eliminating internal parasites but controlling them. Over use, extra amounts, doubling up, worming all and whatever else we think might help actually hurts: the parasites become immune to the dewormers. A good example for cattle folks, like it or not, are sheep and goats. Almost all dewormers are now ineffective or only partially effective in most flocks in the US. Research in beef cattle has signaled the same growing issue. Same deal on flies: they grow immune. We can see that. We generally cannot see the worms.

 

[chaded]

Probably not the most popular opinion but here if you can't handle your worms you can't handle being here.

 

[faster horses]

A lot of problems here. FECs work well. They do represent only a part of a day in a cows life via the sample but I have never heard a large animal Vet require a centrifuged sample. Take a look at extension information and you will see that. In dogs and pet, there are some disconnects between reality and the cost of care. Not so much in commercially managed herds.

The goal is not to worm any more than need worming. Refugia in untreated (didn't need worming) will protect the worming products from becoming ineffective. In other words, the least used on the fewest animals - the better. The remaining population of parasites will have the least exposure to dewormers so that when worming is needed, the dewormer is effective.

Deworming is not eliminating internal parasites but controlling them. Over use, extra amounts, doubling up, worming all and whatever else we think might help actually hurts: the parasites become immune to the dewormers. A good example for cattle folks, like it or not, are sheep and goats. Almost all dewormers are now ineffective or only partially effective in most flocks in the US. Research in beef cattle has signaled the same growing issue. Same deal on flies: they grow immune. We can see that. We generally cannot see the worms.

What I was referring to as a Wisconsin spinner, is this:
Modified Wisconsin Sugar Fecal Worm Egg Flotation Method
We have run many fecals for customers which were read by Dr. Don Bliss, Mid-America Labs and Dr. Gene White at Lincoln Ne. They both advise using Safeguard as a dewormer since the avermectin products have lost their efficacy; or to use both. Dr. Bliss says the best way to deworm is through the gums, meaning orally.
Ebenezer said, "the parasites become immune to the dewormers". Not so with Safe-guard dewormers. What happened with the avermectin products is that it must pass through the hair, the hide and into the internals. Much of the dewormer is lost in that process and that weakened it internally. So that's why the cattle became immune to those products. The companies shave the backs of the cattle so they can get the best results to show their customers.

MidAmerica Agricultural Research

 

[simme]

Safe-Guard label states "Parasite resistance may develop to any dewormer, and has been reported for most classes of dewormers."

 

[wbvs58]

The only worming my cows see in their lifetime is a shot of Cydectin injectible at about 3 months of age, usually in the middle of spring with all the new growth and calves are starting to forage a lot. Cows, replacement heifers, nothing.

Ken