Developing an Eye for Cattle and a ear for BS

Help Support CattleToday:

Status
Not open for further replies.

Caustic Burno

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Messages
29,370
Reaction score
6,721
Location
Big Thicket East Texas
I have said all this at one time or other but we seem to have an influx of newbies.
So you want to raise cattle and be profitable. First learn to farm grass.
Well lets start with the cow the best cow is a Hereford type(red cow) momma as your options are endless to follow the market. You want black calf's you have Angus, Brangus, Simm buckskin calves Char red Hereford etc change your color by changing the bull. You have more options with a red cow..
Now we need to find a reputable seed stock producer if they haven't been a producer at least 10 years drive on by as they are more than likely a flash in the pan breeder.
You want to search for cattle from a similar environment you don't want to shop for cows in Canada where they have strong grass and optimum growth temperatures and haul them to South Texas where there is weak grass and hot temps and expect them to perform.
Now when you get out and start talking to this seed stock producer if he is yakkity yak epd's get in the truck and leave this is not a breed by the number business.
The reputable produce will ask what are you looking for and if he can't fill that bill he will direct you to who can.
The best buy is a 3-an-1 now you want to see this girl in the pasture if she is a BCS of 4.5 to 5 this is ok she is converting grass to milk to cash while growing another one in the oven. You want to find out if these cows are on welfare and being fed if they are these are high maintenance cows. If they can't perform on grass drive on. Second choice is Heavies you are looking for cows 5 to 7 years old as these cows know how to work.
You are looking for a cow that will give you a 6 weight calf at 205 days. This should be a moderate frame cow as she will require less feed maximizing profit. Buying 3n1's or Heavies gives you more time to search for the best bull for your operation.
Now the bull you pull up to XYZ Angus ranch you you see a a 1400 pound bull a 2000 pounder both have a 205 6 weight growth average you want the 1400 pounder he is cheaper to maintain and actually has better growth rate than the 2000 behemoth. You will market the majority of you calf's through a sale barn so you look for the animal that achieves the weight with the least input on grass.
Now the bulls are going to be from anywhere on food stamps to full blown welfare. If the breeder tells you the young man is on 5-7 pounds of ration a day he is going to slip some when you put him to work, if he is on 10 pounds or more he is going to fall, this is expounded by terrain and temperature that he has to work in.
You need to look for calving ease low birth weight bulls you can't sell dead calves. If you can you need to see the bulls progeny in the pasture shortly after birth and check the calf's body type for calving ease.
 
First learn to farm grass.

I quoted one line so everybody doesn't blow by it since it's so short. That is the key. If you don't have grass, you can't make it with cattle. Green, healthy forage will make more money for a cattleman than the best pedigree on the planet.

The rest of it is about the best description of how to be successful at cattle I've ever heard. Too danged bad I learned most of it the hard way. You all notice he didn't say anything about a new Super-Duty and aluminum trailer.
 
Re:
First learn to farm grass.
That may be if you live in utopia. Unfortunately most of us do not.
So I would tell you to first determine if your location is conducive to "farming grass". If it is, fine, but if it is not, it may be cheaper to graze more acres per animal or use supplemental feeding and forget the grass farming.

SL
 
Sir Loin, without grass, you can't raise cows. Cows have an amazing ability to efficiently convert grass to energy = calves. If they can't do that, then you need different cows. Even west Texas farmers raise cows on grass. I think the ratio is like 1 cow per 200 acres.

CB I appauld you. This is by far the finest post I've ever seen you write. Short and too the point, not oogly googly nice, but not rude either.

Everyone should print this and keep it next to the check book.
 
CB, I like the way you talk like a real Cow Man. I don't have to sort out the Bull. Thanks!
 
You have to pay attention to who heeds really good advice and who doesn't. This post in a nutshell could be linked to a whole lot of questions.
 
CB, like you have taught me, a good Hereford (polled) bull and a moderate fraimed BRANGUS cow and you will ring the bell at the salebarn. I am working towards that and will be more than happy to take what I get at the barn. A grass farmer first and a cattleman or woman last.

Dick
 
jkwilson":2tjmxpba said:
First learn to farm grass.

I quoted one line so everybody doesn't blow by it since it's so short. That is the key. If you don't have grass, you can't make it with cattle. Green, healthy forage will make more money for a cattleman than the best pedigree on the planet.

The rest of it is about the best description of how to be successful at cattle I've ever heard. Too danged bad I learned most of it the hard way. You all notice he didn't say anything about a new Super-Duty and aluminum trailer.
Maybe you should drive over to Kansas and tell the feedlot boys they just as well shut up shop get a dozer in and rip up the cement in the yards and get a job in town because if they don't have grass they can't make it with cattle.
 
somn":lyyalruh said:
jkwilson":lyyalruh said:
First learn to farm grass.

I quoted one line so everybody doesn't blow by it since it's so short. That is the key. If you don't have grass, you can't make it with cattle. Green, healthy forage will make more money for a cattleman than the best pedigree on the planet.

The rest of it is about the best description of how to be successful at cattle I've ever heard. Too danged bad I learned most of it the hard way. You all notice he didn't say anything about a new Super-Duty and aluminum trailer.
Maybe you should drive over to Kansas and tell the feedlot boys they just as well shut up shop get a dozer in and rip up the cement in the yards and get a job in town because if they don't have grass they can't make it with cattle.

I believe you are missing the point.

You are comparing apples to watermelons just for the sake of an argument.
 
Sir Loin":25x3znyq said:
Re:
First learn to farm grass.
That may be if you live in utopia. Unfortunately most of us do not.
So I would tell you to first determine if your location is conducive to "farming grass". If it is, fine, but if it is not, it may be cheaper to graze more acres per animal or use supplemental feeding and forget the grass farming.

SL

If you read cb,s entire post I beleive you will find that he does recomend that one should pick a breed adapted for the conditions. As an example Short legged bos tarus are more suited for higher density lush pastures, where leggy type cattle, that can cover a lot of area faster are more suited for the more sparce conditions.
Let's not disagee just to disagree.
My complements cb for posting this on the beginners board, as they are the people that should be reading this. Experianced people should be quoteing it.
 
KNERSIE":28xlkka3 said:
somn":28xlkka3 said:
jkwilson":28xlkka3 said:
First learn to farm grass.

I quoted one line so everybody doesn't blow by it since it's so short. That is the key. If you don't have grass, you can't make it with cattle. Green, healthy forage will make more money for a cattleman than the best pedigree on the planet.

The rest of it is about the best description of how to be successful at cattle I've ever heard. Too danged bad I learned most of it the hard way. You all notice he didn't say anything about a new Super-Duty and aluminum trailer.
Maybe you should drive over to Kansas and tell the feedlot boys they just as well shut up shop get a dozer in and rip up the cement in the yards and get a job in town because if they don't have grass they can't make it with cattle.

I believe you are missing the point.

You are comparing apples to watermelons just for the sake of an argument.
No I am not missing the point maybe you have missed the point. I'm 100% certain that cattle are what they are feeding in the feedlots in Kansas not sheep, chickens, or goats, they do not have grass and they do make it with cattle more years than they don't. To say if you don't have grass you can't make it with cattle is a very very untrue statement. Some begginers may take that quote to heart and never get into the cattle industry because of it. Not every one has 100 or 1000 acres to graze cattle on. They do however maybe have 10 acres to operate a feedlot on feeding cattle and if managed properly they will make it on cattle without grass. I guess as far as apples to watermelons that is fruit you are talking about I was talking about cattle. Whether they are cows and calves in the pasture or steers and hiefers in the feedlot they are all still cattle.
 
somn":3cjyc5at said:
KNERSIE":3cjyc5at said:
somn":3cjyc5at said:
jkwilson":3cjyc5at said:
First learn to farm grass.

I quoted one line so everybody doesn't blow by it since it's so short. That is the key. If you don't have grass, you can't make it with cattle. Green, healthy forage will make more money for a cattleman than the best pedigree on the planet.

The rest of it is about the best description of how to be successful at cattle I've ever heard. Too danged bad I learned most of it the hard way. You all notice he didn't say anything about a new Super-Duty and aluminum trailer.
Maybe you should drive over to Kansas and tell the feedlot boys they just as well shut up shop get a dozer in and rip up the cement in the yards and get a job in town because if they don't have grass they can't make it with cattle.

I believe you are missing the point.

You are comparing apples to watermelons just for the sake of an argument.
No I am not missing the point maybe you have missed the point. I'm 100% certain that cattle are what they are feeding in the feedlots in Kansas not sheep, chickens, or goats, they do not have grass and they do make it with cattle more years than they don't. To say if you don't have grass you can't make it with cattle is a very very untrue statement. Some begginers may take that quote to heart and never get into the cattle industry because of it. Not every one has 100 or 1000 acres to graze cattle on. They do however maybe have 10 acres to operate a feedlot on feeding cattle and if managed properly they will make it on cattle without grass. I guess as far as apples to watermelons that is fruit you are talking about I was talking about cattle. Whether they are cows and calves in the pasture or steers and hiefers in the feedlot they are all still cattle.


Post never was about running a feedlot it was about starting up and maintaing a cow/calf operation.
 
somn":1g1krex8 said:
KNERSIE":1g1krex8 said:
somn":1g1krex8 said:
jkwilson":1g1krex8 said:
First learn to farm grass.

I quoted one line so everybody doesn't blow by it since it's so short. That is the key. If you don't have grass, you can't make it with cattle. Green, healthy forage will make more money for a cattleman than the best pedigree on the planet.

The rest of it is about the best description of how to be successful at cattle I've ever heard. Too danged bad I learned most of it the hard way. You all notice he didn't say anything about a new Super-Duty and aluminum trailer.
Maybe you should drive over to Kansas and tell the feedlot boys they just as well shut up shop get a dozer in and rip up the cement in the yards and get a job in town because if they don't have grass they can't make it with cattle.

I believe you are missing the point.

You are comparing apples to watermelons just for the sake of an argument.
No I am not missing the point maybe you have missed the point. I'm 100% certain that cattle are what they are feeding in the feedlots in Kansas not sheep, chickens, or goats, they do not have grass and they do make it with cattle more years than they don't. To say if you don't have grass you can't make it with cattle is a very very untrue statement. Some begginers may take that quote to heart and never get into the cattle industry because of it. Not every one has 100 or 1000 acres to graze cattle on. They do however maybe have 10 acres to operate a feedlot on feeding cattle and if managed properly they will make it on cattle without grass. I guess as far as apples to watermelons that is fruit you are talking about I was talking about cattle. Whether they are cows and calves in the pasture or steers and hiefers in the feedlot they are all still cattle.

I,m not going to say you are wrong. but I cannot beleive a man can raise beef on a feed operation with no grass starting from the cow/calf point. Show me on paper how that can work.
 
Caustic Burno":3bd9daqx said:
Post never was about running a feedlot it was about starting up and maintaing a cow/calf operation.
I never responded to your post you never made the statment if you don't have grass you can't make it with cattle jkwilson made that wild statement.
 
Thanks CB, I'm an old phart that hasn't been back in the cattle business very long and trust your advice on cattle farming and have re-learned lots from you.
 
novatech

I guess you are going to need to first show me where it is I have ever made the statement that you can be a successfull cow calf man without grass as I don't remember stating that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Top