Dead calf

[danl]

I found a 3 week old calf dead at the edge of the pasture this afternoon when I went to check on them.
The whole back end had been eaten off the tail was even gone.
Last night the calf was nursing and running around fine.
I have seen some dogs in the next pasture over recently. But my Brangus cows don't tolerate anything in the field with them.
I'm getting ready to go dog killing if any are around.
Calf's eyes were clear no foam at the mouth or anything so I'm kind of ruling out dying on its own.
Too young for blackleg, I think and legs didn't feel crunchy.
It wasn't tore up anywhere except the backend though which puzzles me. The ground was pretty undisturbed, I'm not too good at reading sign though.
There might be some tooth marks on its neck, not sure.
Any advice before I go off the deep end and kill all the neighbors dogs?
Wasn't shot- pasture is way off of the road and over a hill.
I moved them to another pasture that doesn't have any thickets or woods in it. The one they were in has some thickets I've been cleaning up, and the calves like to go there.
My handicapped ( see wobbly calf post) was laying 100 yards away undisturbed
Dan

 

[randiliana]

OK, I am not ruling out dogs. Without seeing the calf that would be hard to say for sure. But one thing you may want to consider is a perforated ulcer. Usually when you find a healthy (and often one of the best) calves dead for no other apparent reason, that is what the cause was. There is no way to prevent them, and you often won't see the calf sick, you will just find it dead.

http://beef-mag.com/mag/beef_riddle_absomasal_ulcers/

Just something to consider.

 

[Bez>]

Back end eaten out - maybe some bite marks on the neck. One on the neck while the others had fun.

They pulled it down from behind and started eating under the tail - animal was likely still alive as they started enjoying their meal.

Dogs involved? Could have been anything from a cockapoo to a mastiff - more likely a gang of them. Even the toy breeds will join in the fun.

Shot a few dogs in my day - you remember this! SHUT UP, SHUT THE HE!! UP!!!!

Do what you need to do and "keep yer trap shut" - right wrong or indifferent you will be the bad guy if it gets out.

Pack is quiet - often completely so - you would never hear them - even by the house.

Your dumb, sick calf did not run - so it was not chased. Healthy calf runs and the dogs chase - start eating under the tail and the calf dies while the dogs are enjoying their meal. No different than a pack of wolves killing a moose. Animal is seldom dead before the meal starts.

Dogs will travel a long ways in a pack - 3-4 miles is nothing and more is common. They like to work at night because that is when Pookie gets let out for his evening stroll.

Do what you got to do - patrol the odd night for a few minutes - you might be surprised what you see.

Remember - just because you see a dog out for a walk does not mean it is a bad dog - they do not know what a fence is. You might want to shoo him away - but you see a pack - I guarandamntee you that you got problems.

Bez>

 

[danl]

I sat back there till dark where I found the calf. Was gonna shoot anything bigger than a possum. Didn't see anything.
What makes me think Bez is right is that the tail is gone.
Can't imagine something eating hair and all. I'm going to go back tomorrow afternoon, and look around.
I think it died late this morning or this afternoon.
Flies hadn't really set in on it yet, and it wasn't real stiff.
I'm good at keeping my mouth shut, my place is pretty secluded. No one will know a thing.

 

[Alice]

I think Bez is right, too.

Alice

 

[Bez>]

I sat back there till dark where I found the calf. Was gonna shoot anything bigger than a possum. Didn't see anything.
What makes me think Bez is right is that the tail is gone.
Can't imagine something eating hair and all. I'm going to go back tomorrow afternoon, and look around.
I think it died late this morning or this afternoon.
Flies hadn't really set in on it yet, and it wasn't real stiff.
I'm good at keeping my mouth shut, my place is pretty secluded. No one will know a thing.

I was witness to a doe being killed by some timber wolves north of High Level Alberta some years ago while I worked in the oil patch as a surveyor. Sometime around 95/96.

About 6 wolves chased this doe right down the cut line to about 100 yards or so from me. The snow was about knee deep and she was tired - she tried to climb over the windrow of brush and logs that had been bulldozed up on the side of the cut line but one wolf beat her to the top. That wolf grabbed that doe by the nose and held her - a couple more grabbed her from the back end and they pulled her down and started eating right away.

Quite a sight to see. Big dogs - all but two over 120 - 150 pounds for sure. The others were what I figured to be half grown pups.

When I came back the next day the snow was pounded down hard for about 20 - 30 yards in every direction around the kill site and the only thing I found was the back bone, a piece of the skull and about 6 inches of hip bone.

Everything - and I do mean everything else had been eaten. Hair, skin, bones, guts and meat.

Indian fellow I had with me did not like being there. It was getting dark and he was spooked - but I studied that site for nearly an hour - very impressive.

Never saw that pack again but ran into their tracks every day for about two weeks - they had to be eating, but I never saw another kill site.

So I am not surprised you are missing a few pieces of this calf - they get chewed off and carried away to be eaten during the competition for feed. The animals will fight among themselves for a piece of the prey - it is not a polite "please pass the meat" type of eating party.

Bez>

 

[Beefy]

also, dogs kill for fun. not b/c they are hungry.

 

[Caustic Burno]

also, dogs kill for fun. not b/c they are hungry.

This is correct, need to look for sign and Bez is right on also.
I have seen every size dog imaginable in the pack, this is usually where the coyote gets blamed. He finds an easy meal after the dog kill. Not that yotes won't take a calf it is very rare usually happens more in late summer when the pups have a big appetite for the parents to fill.

Now with dogs they will be back you can bet on it.
If you decide to remedy the problem keep your mouth shut, a box of 22 shells, a bag of amdro, a box of kitchen matches or a flare gun can wreak havoc on you.

 

[danl]

I may be going off the deep end here, but the way I see it no dog has any business being in my pasture. It is a good mile to the next house.
I keep my dogs up. So should the neighbors.
I have a 22-250 and a 12gauge that will be with me from now on.
I've heard a bunch of coyotes the last few weeks, but don't really think they did it.
My father in law has to drive across my place to get to one of his fields and the calves were fine around noon yesterday, when he was fertilizing.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

That wolf grabbed that doe by the nose and held her - a couple more grabbed her from the back end

Last spring, looked out across one of the fields, and there was a 'neighbor's' pit-bull on the nose of one of my cows and his black Lab on the tail! Ran to the house for the 22, came back out and was headed into that field, I didn't care that it was broad daylight! I got to the fence and the dogs got lucky. The Mrs. in the house closest to that field was running across her place waving a broomstick screaming at the dogs.(no, she was not the owner of those dogs) They left. I called her and thanked her. Her husband has been known to shoot at anything he sees going after my cows. I thank them with beef and sausage.

Haven't seen those dogs since.

Katherine

 

[lilfarmgirl]

not sure if this applies to your area, we had a farmer in the next county report that buzzards had killed and started eating one of his new calves. They are black buzzards (I think) and protected in this state so he can't kill them unless he gets a permit. just a thought, you would think there is enough dead deer around here to keep the buzzards fed.

lilfarmgirl

 

[cattleluvr18]

wow thats ssoo sad. no matter how the calf died. i would be scared that whatever killed it would come back b/c if they got one i would think they would be back for more. i would also sit back there and see what all comes up.

and bez how could you watch them eat a deer like that? poor little thing. last year during deer season...we drove back to a hedge row and there was an old barn with cattle panel fence behind it and there was a doe hanging from it. poor gal got her hind feet caught in it somehow. i dont know which is worse, dying hanging from a fence or being eating alive by wolves.

 

[Bez>]

wow thats ssoo sad. no matter how the calf died. i would be scared that whatever killed it would come back b/c if they got one i would think they would be back for more. i would also sit back there and see what all comes up.

and bez how could you watch them eat a deer like that? poor little thing. last year during deer season...we drove back to a hedge row and there was an old barn with cattle panel fence behind it and there was a doe hanging from it. poor gal got her hind feet caught in it somehow. i dont know which is worse, dying hanging from a fence or being eating alive by wolves.

OK - I am about to be a bit hard on you - not mean - just hard.

Why would you say "how sad"?

How can you say - How could you watch"?

It was breath taking!!!

Well, the truth is every time a coyote or wolf or lioness or dingo or hyena pulls down an animal it lives - and it does so by killing and eating.

Deer are pretty but they are prey - and they are eaten while still alive -that is a fact with most predators and prey. Period.

You be glad your ancestors did this - or you would NOT be here today!!

So stop with the stereotypical "oh poor deer" female response and look at it like this - it is the cycle of life.

You will someday - I hope - have some happy and healthy children. In fact I hope you live a rich and full life - but you will only do this by killing - and you had better remember that.

Leather, rubber, metal, composites, meat, grains - all are here today and involve a death of some type - and you will be responsible for those deaths - as will we all. Get over it.

Now I could say I caught a fish and ate it and you would not bat an eye. That is because of one thing and one thing only - fish are slimy and not cute and cuddly in your eyes.

But in reality there IS NO DIFFERENCE!

So time to get with the program and think about life as it truly is.

Your cute kitten is a rabid killer - it kills and eats anything it can get it's puny claws on. But - before it kills it tortures.

You love the kitten and think it is a great pet - then you release it upon those poor unsuspecting birds and mice and rats and snakes - and you have a heart attack when it kills a song bird. But it is doing what it is designed to do - kill, eat, survive.

And you likely will be happy if it kills a snake -but that snake is struggling to survive as well. But it is not cute and cuddly - it is a loathed animal and therefore it is ok to kill it - yet I think differently - it has as much right to live in the food chain as that song bird.

And yet you nurture the cat and house it and love it - you cannot have it both ways young lady. Life will not allow you to do this.

It also needs entertainment - so it tortures and yet you love that kitten.

Time to grow up about life on the farm and life in the bush and life as it really is.

No different in the bush and in the sea where the Killer Whale and the Sperm Whale are at the top of the predator chain - or the Star Fish that kills the oyster at the bottom end of the food chain.

The only difference in your eye is that the deer is cute and cuddly. Well, let me tell you that a deer will kick the living bejesus out of you if you manage to grab on - it may be pretty but it certainly is not cuddly.

You may not like it, but if those wolves could talk I bet you they would tell you they were happy that they were sitting down to a meal.

Look at it from the eye of the predator for a change - they too have the right to live and eat and prolong the life of their species -and they will do this until they are all dead. As will every beast and bug and bird on the planet.

The falcon is majestic - yet it kills with talons and beak - rips the animal or bird to shreds - yet it is beautiful and therefore it is an "ok killer" in most peoples eyes.

Not fair - all predators have the right to kill in my eyes. Even the ugly ones.

And the pretty prey and the ugly prey all have the right to try and live - or die when they fail.

Mother Nature is a wonderful thing - and she is damned cruel about it some times.

Finally remember - everything will die so that something else will live. Even we go into the ground as meat or ashes and we provide nutrients for plants and trees. It is a complete circle that is to be honoured and accepted and perhaps even revered.

Do not loose compassion, but get with the program and realize you are here because animals die for you - that is what we do as farmers and ranchers - we RAISE THEM TO KILL THEM.

Take care,

Bez>

 

[Wewild]

Good post Bez>.

 

[Bez>]

Good post Bez>.

Hopefully better with my edits.

Thnx

Bez>

 

[Beefy]

and bez how could you watch them eat a deer like that? poor little thing. l

um, ok.. Ms. Intervention. can we say WolfieChow? lol. I bet Bez could have fed those cute little wolves for a couple of days.

 

[Bez>]

and bez how could you watch them eat a deer like that? poor little thing. l

um, ok.. Ms. Intervention. can we say WolfieChow? lol. I bet Bez could have fed those cute little wolves for a couple of days.

Beefy - if you ever saw me - I deserve your name because I am a big / fat / balding guy / what hair I have is quite white.

I could have fed those cuties for at least a couple of weeks!

Bez>

 

[danl]

I went back and sat close to the calf carcass last night for a while and noticed it had been drug about thirty feet off the log road. I went back this morning at daylight it had been drug about another fifty feet. Bez's Cockapoo might have helped but it didn't do it by itself.
I remembered my deer stand was pretty close so I tied a rope to a leg and drug it to within about thirty yards of the stand.
Told my wife I was going hunting in the morning- I just hope it (they) show up. She asked why I didn't put my deer trail camera back there. Why didn't I think off that.
So I did , maybe I will have pictures of the neighbor dogs, coyotes, grizzly bear, sasquatch, who knows, tomorrow.
Whatever it is is pretty strong, it was a pretty hard to drag and I had a rope.
I understand what Bez is saying that it is just part of life.
I'm still gonna kill it.....

 

[Beefy]

I went back and sat close to the calf carcass last night for a while and noticed it had been drug about thirty feet off the log road. I went back this morning at daylight it had been drug about another fifty feet. Bez's Cockapoo might have helped but it didn't do it by itself.
I remembered my deer stand was pretty close so I tied a rope to a leg and drug it to within about thirty yards of the stand.
Told my wife I was going hunting in the morning- I just hope it (they) show up. She asked why I didn't put my deer trail camera back there. Why didn't I think off that.
So I did , maybe I will have pictures of the neighbor dogs, coyotes, grizzly bear, sasquatch, who knows, tomorrow.
Whatever it is is pretty strong, it was a pretty hard to drag and I had a rope.
I understand what Bez is saying that it is just part of life.
I'm still gonna kill it.....

i had a calf die the day after it was born a few weeks back. it was kind of mysterious in that he appeared to be fine the day of birth but the next day he just laid around (in the shade) panting and bawling every once in a while. i tried to save him of course but anyway he didnt make it. so i took him to the back hundred (normally i bury them with the tractor and bucket but not this time). anyway, i came back two days later and the entire carcass was gone with no sign of being eaten or anything. i couldnt tell where it had been drug and i looked all over for it. i never did find that calf. and we have really small coyotes not much bigger than foxes (except for the one big black one that we think is part german shepherd).

 

[cattleluvr18]

wow thats ssoo sad. no matter how the calf died. i would be scared that whatever killed it would come back b/c if they got one i would think they would be back for more. i would also sit back there and see what all comes up.

and bez how could you watch them eat a deer like that? poor little thing. last year during deer season...we drove back to a hedge row and there was an old barn with cattle panel fence behind it and there was a doe hanging from it. poor gal got her hind feet caught in it somehow. i dont know which is worse, dying hanging from a fence or being eating alive by wolves.

OK - I am about to be a bit hard on you - not mean - just hard.

Why would you say "how sad"?

How can you say - How could you watch"?

It was breath taking!!!

Well, the truth is every time a coyote or wolf or lioness or dingo or hyena pulls down an animal it lives - and it does so by killing and eating.

Deer are pretty but they are prey - and they are eaten while still alive -that is a fact with most predators and prey. Period.

You be glad your ancestors did this - or you would NOT be here today!!

So stop with the stereotypical "oh poor deer" female response and look at it like this - it is the cycle of life.

You will someday - I hope - have some happy and healthy children. In fact I hope you live a rich and full life - but you will only do this by killing - and you had better remember that.

Leather, rubber, metal, composites, meat, grains - all are here today and involve a death of some type - and you will be responsible for those deaths - as will we all. Get over it.

Now I could say I caught a fish and ate it and you would not bat an eye. That is because of one thing and one thing only - fish are slimy and not cute and cuddly in your eyes.

But in reality there IS NO DIFFERENCE!

So time to get with the program and think about life as it truly is.

Your cute kitten is a rabid killer - it kills and eats anything it can get it's puny claws on. But - before it kills it tortures.

You love the kitten and think it is a great pet - then you release it upon those poor unsuspecting birds and mice and rats and snakes - and you have a heart attack when it kills a song bird. But it is doing what it is designed to do - kill, eat, survive.

And you likely will be happy if it kills a snake -but that snake is struggling to survive as well. But it is not cute and cuddly - it is a loathed animal and therefore it is ok to kill it - yet I think differently - it has as much right to live in the food chain as that song bird.

And yet you nurture the cat and house it and love it - you cannot have it both ways young lady. Life will not allow you to do this.

It also needs entertainment - so it tortures and yet you love that kitten.

Time to grow up about life on the farm and life in the bush and life as it really is.

No different in the bush and in the sea where the Killer Whale and the Sperm Whale are at the top of the predator chain - or the Star Fish that kills the oyster at the bottom end of the food chain.

The only difference in your eye is that the deer is cute and cuddly. Well, let me tell you that a deer will kick the living bejesus out of you if you manage to grab on - it may be pretty but it certainly is not cuddly.

You may not like it, but if those wolves could talk I bet you they would tell you they were happy that they were sitting down to a meal.

Look at it from the eye of the predator for a change - they too have the right to live and eat and prolong the life of their species -and they will do this until they are all dead. As will every beast and bug and bird on the planet.

The falcon is majestic - yet it kills with talons and beak - rips the animal or bird to shreds - yet it is beautiful and therefore it is an "ok killer" in most peoples eyes.

Not fair - all predators have the right to kill in my eyes. Even the ugly ones.

And the pretty prey and the ugly prey all have the right to try and live - or die when they fail.

Mother Nature is a wonderful thing - and she is damned cruel about it some times.

Finally remember - everything will die so that something else will live. Even we go into the ground as meat or ashes and we provide nutrients for plants and trees. It is a complete circle that is to be honoured and accepted and perhaps even revered.

Do not loose compassion, but get with the program and realize you are here because animals die for you - that is what we do as farmers and ranchers - we RAISE THEM TO KILL THEM.

Take care,


Bez>

alrighty i can handle that post...and i dont think that you are being hard..just telling the plain hard truth...well atleast thats how i look at it

ok first thing that popped into my mind was..atleat im not wanna of those veg heads who think killing a cow just for food is cruel...i believe that they are put on this earth for us to eat and drink their milk. kinda makes sense about the deer and coyotes and anything else that you mentioned. (and by the way i hate cats) i didnt mean for it to be like "oh the poor little deer why does it have to die...oh boo hoo hoo". unless its like cattle and only eats plants then it has to get its food from somewhere. and yes it is the cycle of life. i said poor deer b/c i dont like seeing death and i couldnt see it die like that. everything has to get their food from somewhere and some have to kill to get it just like we do unles your a vegitarian. and i am also a proud hunter who enjoys goin out and killing a turkey, deer, phesant and then enjoying its meat. if i was truely how you explained me to be i wouldnt hunt, now would i?