cost of raising heifer to be bred vs buying bred cow

[uscangus]

he uses young yearling bulls with low bw, ww, yw, and easing calves. never had any problem breeding the heifers to
cows, each year. he would saves time and money.

usc - I'm confused. Not sure what you are saying.

my neighbor says that he would bred yearling heifer about 800-900lbs not age of 12-15months but weight and structure are his advice. he hopes to calve around the bred heifer by 1200lbs after 9 months. he has been doing this ways since 2000. the heifers are black angus and yearling angus bull with low bw, yw, ww, and great epd. he does not have to wait two years.

Are you saying your neighbor breeds his heifers when they reach 800-900#? that would "normally" be at 12-15 months of age (or older for some Angus) (I can't imagine it's any younger than that). If he breeds them at that weight/age, they will be calving somewhere around 2 years of age - which - is what we are all saying that we do. You said "he does not have to wait two years?? what?
And, you made the comment that his bull has low BW, WW & YW and they are great EPD's. Well, low BW is great, low WW &/or low YW is NOT so great - in most managements. If he is breeding to low YW bulls, he is not getting his heifers to 800-900# at yearling age (I would have to "ASSUME")
So, am I missing something in the translation???? I must be confused. What are you trying to say?

good morning jeanne from northwest, yes, he would feed them grain and hay immediately. by 9-10 months, he would have bred them. he would say he would not have to wait like 12-15months to bred. i was thought he was just blowing air or bragging. i have read most articles and for this boards and agreed with you, also. i was planning to buy yearling black heifers or his weaned heifers from him but they do not look good with conformations and structures. they look stunted and they are not minatured black angus. i have seen some heifer or steers in the auction for several years but to me his stocks were not good compared to mine. my calves are better uniform than his. the dams compared to mine is little lighter and shorter frame, ours about 1300-1400lbs.

 

[uscangus]

with very little amount of replacement heifers in private parties or good stocks in the auction, purchasing bred cows are also impossible to purchase in my neck of the wood, in northwest. just, cow itself, the cost is so expensive. with the shortage of
beef cattle, the cost is so expensive since feed is so cheap. how about your neck of the wood.

 

[Dave]

I don't know what part of the northwest you are in but in my area there seems to be plenty of cows available. And as always cattle prices on the west side of the Cascades is lower than the rest of the world. If you are looking for real top of the line cows, well there aren't as many of them available and they do cost more. But that is true anywhere.
As to price and available numbers. I know people who are buying both heifers and cows by the truck load and shipping them over the hill to sell and making good money doing it.
On the original question. The guy I get my bulls from figures he has $1,100 into a heifer before he can sell her first calf. I sure wouldn't dispute him as he is as good a cattleman as there is in Western Washington. The best pair to walk through the Chehalis yard wont cost that much. So at least for this area pairs or even bred cows are cheaper than raising a heifer. The only reason to raise heifers is to get know genetics.

 

[uscangus]

I don't know what part of the northwest you are in but in my area there seems to be plenty of cows available. And as always cattle prices on the west side of the Cascades is lower than the rest of the world. If you are looking for real top of the line cows, well there aren't as many of them available and they do cost more. But that is true anywhere.
As to price and available numbers. I know people who are buying both heifers and cows by the truck load and shipping them over the hill to sell and making good money doing it.
On the original question. The guy I get my bulls from figures he has $1,100 into a heifer before he can sell her first calf. I sure wouldn't dispute him as he is as good a cattleman as there is in Western Washington. The best pair to walk through the Chehalis yard wont cost that much. So at least for this area pairs or even bred cows are cheaper than raising a heifer. The only reason to raise heifers is to get know genetics.

dave, your right, with good genetics, it is best to keep or buy heifers.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

dave, your right, with good genetics, it is best to keep or buy heifers

HUH??? :shock:

 

[uscangus]

dave, your right, with good genetics, it is best to keep or buy heifers

HUH??? :shock:

sorry, jeanne-simme valley, i was out of the country and could not get access. i made this response right before i was on boarding
the plane. If i have good heifers stocks in my herds, i would keep the heifers since i knew the dam in regard to disposition, structure, temperament, bw, ce, and dam's milk production. also, the heifers knows the infrastructures and pasture or forage. with today bred's cows in the auction, you see very little good disposition and bcs since you have limited number of cows. also, since price of hay or feed is depressed, most people are keeping their cows or herds due to increased price per pound.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I wasn't questioning KEEPING replacement heifers. Your "statement" didn't make any sense.

it is best to keep or buy heifers

keeping OR buying is the issue.

 

[alftn]

I guess the answer is YES....We have been down this road several times before....I can not buy heifers as good as I can raise...I bought 6 ,05 modles from a basic Black Angus commerical herd...culled all but 2 in the frist 3 years... Got 8 calves in 3 years....

Raised 4, 06 modles PB Black angus Have got 8 calves in 2 years, no deads , no opens

POINT IS all 10 animals raised the same(at least weaning on) , together, yet there is a difference in the animals, some produce some do not....Only one of the six I bought has calved every year, the rest went open or had a dead calf..

I WOULD LOVE 6 OF FRANKIES GIRLS to add to my herd, then I would have something to compare my to.....Although it would be a waste to take six PB Black angus and breed them to a Hereford....

 

[uscangus]

I guess the answer is YES....We have been down this road several times before....I can not buy heifers as good as I can raise...I bought 6 ,05 modles from a basic Black Angus commerical herd...culled all but 2 in the frist 3 years... Got 8 calves in 3 years....

Raised 4, 06 modles PB Black angus Have got 8 calves in 2 years, no deads , no opens

POINT IS all 10 animals raised the same(at least weaning on) , together, yet there is a difference in the animals, some produce some do not....Only one of the six I bought has calved every year, the rest went open or had a dead calf..

I WOULD LOVE 6 OF FRANKIES GIRLS to add to my herd, then I would have something to compare my to.....Although it would be a waste to take six PB Black angus and breed them to a Hereford....

question alftn? since animals are different on temperament or personality, how do you minimize culling or open if they have the same pastures and minerals. i am planning to buy some purebred black heifers from a producer with great dispositions and bcs. being a group of 10 heifers, i am hoping that they will adjust with my group herd cows/calves. since cattles are herd animals, i am hoping that they will be okay as a group and happy cattles in regard to increasing their weights and hoping to be healthy as a group for breeding.

these heifers will be around 700-800lbs and be bred to a two year old pure bred black angus with great disposition and temperament.
i am hoping that being their weight is around 750lbs that their internal structures and bcs are healthy and mature compare to 650lbs.
i am hoping by the time that they calve they will be around 1000-1100lbs and build out internally and minimize calving.

i would appreciate your generous advises, uscangus.........................................

 

[rockridgecattle]

we always keep hiefers separate from the cow herd until preg checking in the fall.
1. reduce the sucking urge from the hiefer for breeding to a mursing cow
2. reduce the stress on a hiefer due to competition for forage.

A hiefer is always at the bottom of the food chain. We have learned to keep the hiefers in a separate padoclk with their own bull. We have had as many as 26 hiefers or as little as 4 hiefers in this paddock and they do really well. I think they get about 30 acres of pasture and bush. The lack of competition for feed allows the hiefers to develope better. It has also increase the % of breed back the following summer.
At preg checking time the vet asks how old the hiefer is. She used to always be surprised when i say 18 mo. At one point she questioned me on this. So, since the year of birth is on the tags, brought her to the front of the cow and proved my point... she was well impressed.

Some other tid bits we have learned about raising our own hiefers.
1. Unless the hay tests poor, weaned hiefers only get hay, and good quality hay. As well as free choice mineral and salt. Over fed hiefers seem to only last a couple of breeding seasons. Then we have to cull them because they seem to stay too fat and not breed back on time, or raise a poor calf because they are putting the energy into themselves.
2. Only keep from the best cows. Best cows = best genetics. Any hiefer we keep has to be a definite yes. If we hem and haw over her, she is not worth keeping
3. Since we have a tight breeding season, we keep only hiefers who were born in the first 45 days of calving. Anything kept for breeding who were born outside that time frame loose steam in the breed back department.
Finally, even the best laid plans of mice and men... do not be surprised that you will cull at least 20% of your hiefers, bought or raised by the time they have had their second calf. It is the average.

 

[alftn]

I aint quite sure what you are asking USCANGUS, odds are the heifers will fit beautiful into your herd....I feed minerals free choice so each gets her own.

As far as culling, some I like, and some I do not.....If I do not like a calf , odds are I will never like her, her bag , her shape(phenotype) but if she has good calves I KEEP HER...

Anything that stick out in MY herd , Thin cows, trouble makers, fence pushers , and of course size and condition....are on the short list...

It hurts my feeling to lose a calf, but If a good cows loses a calf, I may not SELL her just because she lost a calf...But a lost calf is 1 strike and open would be a second, there aint no 3rds....They go by by..

A cow that is trouble or wild goes by by quickle, your herd is only as tame as you wildest cow....

I am a NOVICE, I RAISE cows because I love them, and they taste good......

IF I HAD MORE LAND I WOULD HAVE MORE GRASS, IF I HAD MORE GRASS I WOULD HAVE MORE COWS....

 

[Dixieangus]

so did you ever decide or get anything uscangus

 

[uscangus]

I guess the answer is YES....We have been down this road several times before....I can not buy heifers as good as I can raise...I bought 6 ,05 modles from a basic Black Angus commerical herd...culled all but 2 in the frist 3 years... Got 8 calves in 3 years....

Raised 4, 06 modles PB Black angus Have got 8 calves in 2 years, no deads , no opens

POINT IS all 10 animals raised the same(at least weaning on) , together, yet there is a difference in the animals, some produce some do not....Only one of the six I bought has calved every year, the rest went open or had a dead calf..

I WOULD LOVE 6 OF FRANKIES GIRLS to add to my herd, then I would have something to compare my to.....Although it would be a waste to take six PB Black angus and breed them to a Hereford....

the question is "point is all 10 animals raised the same(at least weaning on), together, yet there is a difference in the animals, some
produce some do not.... only one of the six I bought has calved every year, the rest went open or had a dead calf.."

how do you prevent animals from not producing if they are the same animal groups that you purchase from the same producer and same location? since they came together, i am hoping that they would be very happy with little stress by the new environment.
being a newbie, i always purchases animals that are groups of animals to minimize bacteria or viral pathogens from their environments.
also, since they come together, they are easier to get adjusted compared to buying one.

once again, these pure bred black animals have great disposition, structures, bcs, temperament, and genetics with ample pastures and minerals. since these animals will be around 700lbs-800lbs, i am hoping that their inner structure will be almost grown out by the time they will calve. by the time they calve, their weight will be 1000-1100lbs and inner structure will be mature or grown out. the sire is a yearling pure bred black angus with great epd, ce, ww,and bw(proven dam and sire).

 

[uscangus]

so did you ever decide or get anything uscangus

yes--- they will be arriving by early june and bred immediately. in my area, they are selling bred cows that are old with poor bcs. they are selling it by carcass or meat at 65cent per weight. since i have a lot of pastures and will have 4000 bale hays(50-75lbs of two strings), the only cost is to make hay, time, and share the hays. being a newbie, i can't afford to buy heavy machinery for long term. i just rent the machineries from my neighbors or we share the bale in half.

i am hoping my mature cows will be role models with these yearling heifers or mothers. since they are herd and group animals, they will learn how to be mother with their new calves. like human being, every new pregnant mom get advises from previous mothers. my matures cows crossed milked to ther calves, like social, group, and herd animals in natures.

 

[RD-Sam]

1st off let me say that im a reg breeder.but my weaned heifers are worth $800 or more.now id have to carry them 500 days till they calve an thats $750.add in the value of the calf in her belly ive got $1750 in her.an if i buy bred heifers im looking at giving $1700 to $2500.reg cows i can get for $1500 to $2500.being in your shoes id buy as meny cows as i can afford.calving heifers can an will bite you on the butt.

you are right but the quality of bred cows are not the best. you are looking that many owners are dumping their bred cows are either too old or not the best quality at the auction.

First heifer I bought went well, the second and third one were a disaster. To be honest I think most people are just dumping their junk at the sales, or at least not their good cows and heifers. Cows with their second or third calf are probably the best you can hope for. Buy them, let them calve, then get them in sync with your herd, probably the least headaches.

 

[RD-Sam]

I guess the answer is YES....We have been down this road several times before....I can not buy heifers as good as I can raise...I bought 6 ,05 modles from a basic Black Angus commerical herd...culled all but 2 in the frist 3 years... Got 8 calves in 3 years....

Raised 4, 06 modles PB Black angus Have got 8 calves in 2 years, no deads , no opens

POINT IS all 10 animals raised the same(at least weaning on) , together, yet there is a difference in the animals, some produce some do not....Only one of the six I bought has calved every year, the rest went open or had a dead calf..

I WOULD LOVE 6 OF FRANKIES GIRLS to add to my herd, then I would have something to compare my to.....Although it would be a waste to take six PB Black angus and breed them to a Hereford....

the question is "point is all 10 animals raised the same(at least weaning on), together, yet there is a difference in the animals, some
produce some do not.... only one of the six I bought has calved every year, the rest went open or had a dead calf.."

how do you prevent animals from not producing if they are the same animal groups that you purchase from the same producer and same location? since they came together, i am hoping that they would be very happy with little stress by the new environment.
being a newbie, i always purchases animals that are groups of animals to minimize bacteria or viral pathogens from their environments.
also, since they come together, they are easier to get adjusted compared to buying one.

once again, these pure bred black animals have great disposition, structures, bcs, temperament, and genetics with ample pastures and minerals. since these animals will be around 700lbs-800lbs, i am hoping that their inner structure will be almost grown out by the time they will calve. by the time they calve, their weight will be 1000-1100lbs and inner structure will be mature or grown out. the sire is a yearling pure bred black angus with great epd, ce, ww,and bw(proven dam and sire).

Pretty scary, a bull with no progeny, relying on EPD's, to breed heifers. So far, I have not seen EPD's to be very predictable. You better find you a proven sire. :help:

 

[uscangus]

I guess the answer is YES....We have been down this road several times before....I can not buy heifers as good as I can raise...I bought 6 ,05 modles from a basic Black Angus commerical herd...culled all but 2 in the frist 3 years... Got 8 calves in 3 years....

Raised 4, 06 modles PB Black angus Have got 8 calves in 2 years, no deads , no opens

POINT IS all 10 animals raised the same(at least weaning on) , together, yet there is a difference in the animals, some produce some do not....Only one of the six I bought has calved every year, the rest went open or had a dead calf..

I WOULD LOVE 6 OF FRANKIES GIRLS to add to my herd, then I would have something to compare my to.....Although it would be a waste to take six PB Black angus and breed them to a Hereford....

the question is "point is all 10 animals raised the same(at least weaning on), together, yet there is a difference in the animals, some
produce some do not.... only one of the six I bought has calved every year, the rest went open or had a dead calf.."

how do you prevent animals from not producing if they are the same animal groups that you purchase from the same producer and same location? since they came together, i am hoping that they would be very happy with little stress by the new environment.
being a newbie, i always purchases animals that are groups of animals to minimize bacteria or viral pathogens from their environments.
also, since they come together, they are easier to get adjusted compared to buying one.

once again, these pure bred black animals have great disposition, structures, bcs, temperament, and genetics with ample pastures and minerals. since these animals will be around 700lbs-800lbs, i am hoping that their inner structure will be almost grown out by the time they will calve. by the time they calve, their weight will be 1000-1100lbs and inner structure will be mature or grown out. the sire is a yearling pure bred black angus with great epd, ce, ww,and bw(proven dam and sire).

Pretty scary, a bull with no progeny, relying on EPD's, to breed heifers. So far, I have not seen EPD's to be very predictable. You better find you a proven sire. :help:

this bull is a second year. in his first year, he has given calves from some 5 dams with no problems with low bw. i

 

[uscangus]

with the current price of beef being steady and feed being low, bred cow is cost effective at this time when purchased several months ago when bred cows were asking at lower price per wt. also, you are able to deliver your crop feed livestock at the current high market. whereas, raising heifer to yearling, the time it take to mature and to deliver your crop feed to market may not guarantee the prices that you are seeing in the future.

has any one seen these current prices in the past? my neighbor said that it was similar to 2005 for beef prices.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Pretty scary, a bull with no progeny, relying on EPD's, to breed heifers. So far, I have not seen EPD's to be very predictable. You better find you a proven sire. :help:

I tried the low birthweight bull. One sired really small calves, most in the 60s, plus one 50 pounder that we called Goat Boy. Next one sired medium to large calves, most in the 80s.

If you average the two bulls together - - then we got the birth weight we wanted :banana:

 

[Dixieangus]

so uscangus you said that you bought old poor bcs bred cows at the sale and then your heifers are arriving this month. just to make sure i have this correct. and another thing did you have a select buyer buy them and thats why they are "arriving"