cost of raising heifer to be bred vs buying bred cow

[uscangus]

if the climate of beef prices are so high,such as in bred cows from 800-1000 dollar, i would like to ask the board with their experiences which is better to buy bred cow or buy young heifers around 300-400lbs as a group of 10-20 as herd.

i am surmising that it would be best to buy young heifera and raise them as yearling to bred to yearling bull, since feed is cheap at this time. can any one help this newbie. uscangus,

 

[SRBeef]

Seems to me that with a bred cow you are getting a cow that has already calved, knows the ropes and more of a known article. With heifers you have no idea what you are getting. It is also going to take a year and a half before you get a calf, if then. The bred cow is probably due in 6 months or less? In the end the cost may not be very different. Depends a bit on what the cow has been bred to, also. A young cow but a cow that has already calved successfully and bred back is worth much more than a 300-400 lb heifer. I would tend to lean toward the (known) quality rather than quantity when starting out. jmho. Goodluck.

Jim

 

[KNERSIE]

If you could buy heifers weighing 800+lbs that you can breed immediately to the bull of your choice, the heifers may be an option and cost wise will come closer to the cows, but buying 300lb heifers is a losing proposition in my opinion. You'll be better off paying more for bred cows, preferably 3 in 1's.

 

[Stocker Steve]

The economists will tell you it depends on the cattle cycle - - sell high priced heifers and retain cheap ones. :shock: Hard to argue with that, except that we don't seem to have a cattle cycle any more.

The analyst will tell you it depends on cash flow, net present value, and bonus deprecation. Easy to get confused on all the calculations and assumptions required. :???:

Harlan Hughes likes to do cost budgets. His February 2010 Beef magazine cost projection was exactly $1,012 for a bred heifer in fall of 2010. Factor in some more culling or opens, and the cost of a second calver gets ugly.

I can do it for less than Harlon, but bred heifers are also worth less in Minnesota. Commercial blacks in groups of 10 to 20 head were going for $865 each here last November, and have gone up some since. I am told they are about to $1 a pound in the Dakotas.

 

[Kingfisher]

[if you don't buy from a sale there is a good posibility that they are good moms..."

Just exactly what do you mean by that statement ?

 

[BRYANT]

I am raising me some heifers just because you can't hardly find them F1 brahman cross anymore where I live if it was not for that I would not even think of it
I know several people on here does not like "SALE BARN CATTLE" but you can go to the big sales and watch the cows as they come in and find people that sale pot loads off of a ranch that are 7 yrs old that are still good cows that will be fine to start off with and a lot less problem just watch not all cows in a sale are culls now if someone has 200 head of cows and comes to a sale with one 3 yr old bred cow well she is there for a reason and you don't want her!!!!

 

[Caustic Burno]

You can't raise a heifer for the price that you can buy heavies for, the only reason to retain heifers is genetic and that comes at a high price tag. Secondly calving heifers is a crap shoot.

 

[dun]

You can't raise a heifer for the price that you can buy heavies for, the only reason to retain heifers is genetic and that comes at a high price tag. Secondly calving heifers is a crap shoot.

I don;t know about the cost of heavies cause I don;t buy them. The advantage of the genetics in the heifers is knowing their history and they would be from cows that are adapted to your mangement and forage so there is a better chance that they will work out long term. Properly selected heifers bred to properly selected bulls make calving heifers no worse (in my experience) then calving out cows. Especially since you will know the heifer and she'll know you.

 

[uscangus]

You can't raise a heifer for the price that you can buy heavies for, the only reason to retain heifers is genetic and that comes at a high price tag. Secondly calving heifers is a crap shoot.

I don;t know about the cost of heavies cause I don;t buy them. The advantage of the genetics in the heifers is knowing their history and they would be from cows that are adapted to your mangement and forage so there is a better chance that they will work out long term. Properly selected heifers bred to properly selected bulls make calving heifers no worse (in my experience) then calving out cows. Especially since you will know the heifer and she'll know you.

i

i agree with you "dun" since you know the dam and they have known the forage and place. i am thinking of keeping my heifers since these heifers have seen other cows taking care of their calves and seeing knew calves hit the ground. since these animals are group herds, any new heifers are brought in the place and seeing other young heifers grazing and imitating other cows will make their adjustments and life a lot easier. knowing, that young heifers require young bulls about 2 years, i will make sure the epd and calving easy, and so no...

 

[Caustic Burno]

There is no way to raise a heifer and make her pay out in a commercial operation, you can buy heavies cheaper than you can raise a heifer.

 

[Stocker Steve]

There is no way to raise a heifer and make her pay out in a commercial operation, you can buy heavies cheaper than you can raise a heifer.

I have a neighbor with high end expensive registered stock. He says about 3/4 of his retained heifers pan out, and blames popular AI bulls for not throwing as consistent a calves like some of the old lines. A little humorous from a distance.

I have bought cheap bred cows. About half pan out. The net cost of the remaining is OK if the kill market is strong.

I have also bought cheap bred heifers. About 3/4 of these (also) pan out. Most of the culls go to the locker plant off grass. This is the lowest net cost system I have found for replacements. Even so, I save a few favorite heifers most years. iI guess I am not a good business man :cboy:

My latest "buy" was bred horned herefords. Not a lot of demand for this kind. A couple still resent the de horning, but the 5 gallon pail is hard to resist for long.

 

[plumber_greg]

There is no way to raise a heifer and make her pay out in a commercial operation, you can buy heavies cheaper than you can raise a heifer.

I can understand, Mr. Caustic, that it's tough to make one pay out. My response to that is always,"if there is no way to make her pay out in a commercial operation, where do the heavies come from?" Are people only buying heifers that accidently got bred, or from some stupid commercial operations that went broke? Someone, I am one, can raise good commercial replacement heifers for their herd, out of known genetics, and make her pay out. If someone is constantly trading money on cattle, it's very difficult to build any kind of equity base for the future. The constant paying of interest or lost opportunity of money as one buys replacements every year in order to keep the cow herd productive enough is a big expense also. I could go on, but I'm tired of typing. gs

 

[Caustic Burno]

There is no way to raise a heifer and make her pay out in a commercial operation, you can buy heavies cheaper than you can raise a heifer.

I can understand, Mr. Caustic, that it's tough to make one pay out. My response to that is always,"if there is no way to make her pay out in a commercial operation, where do the heavies come from?" Are people only buying heifers that accidently got bred, or from some stupid commercial operations that went broke? Someone, I am one, can raise good commercial replacement heifers for their herd, out of known genetics, and make her pay out. If someone is constantly trading money on cattle, it's very difficult to build any kind of equity base for the future. The constant paying of interest or lost opportunity of money as one buys replacements every year in order to keep the cow herd productive enough is a big expense also. I could go on, but I'm tired of typing. gs

It cost you 1400 dollars to raise a heifer to production and she might be a good cow. You can buy some mighty fine cows that already have a proven record a lot cheaper than 1400 bucks. Secondly if the purchased cow dies I can write her off as well as the upkeep to maintain her after purchase, you can only write off the retained heifer upkeep. For every heifer retained you lose income out of a cow for two years and another two years until the heifer returns income to the operation so you have upkept two cows for two years with no return. The heavy is a productive member of the herd right away. As I stated before the only reason to retain is genetic improvement and you would have to run a very special commerical herd. This is about cows that are eating my grass to produce income, not to watch for a couple years.

You can buy good heavies everyday of the year here for 800 bucks they are advertised all the time.

Edit I think Dun's herd is exception as he is one of the few using AI and really diving off into genetics he is the exception to the rule and there is genetic value there I have never been able to pencil out.

 

[backhoeboogie]

For those who run herd bulls, CB didn't mention changing bull frequencies to preclude inbreeding. If you are not retaining heifers, you can keep your proven bulls. I had to part with a bull I did not want to part with because I retained a lot of heifers out of him. It can be difficult to replace a really good bull and cost has nothing to do with it.

 

[plumber_greg]

I understand the cost of raising heifers, the need for additional pasture and keeping bulls. What I want to know is, if it is such a proven money loser for everyone to raise commercial replacements and no way do a better job of it, who is raising them? Where do the proven commercial cows, that had to begin calving as someone's replacement heifers, you can buy come from? Someone, somewhere, is making a go of it, or there would be no good commercial cows to buy. Not all heifers are slaughtered, accidently bred, or can only be purchased from retired or bandrupt ranchers. Yes, it is expensive, but if it worked for no one, there would soon be no commercial herds anywhere. It's worked for someone every since they've sold cattle. gs

 

[Caustic Burno]

I understand the cost of raising heifers, the need for additional pasture and keeping bulls. What I want to know is, if it is such a proven money loser for everyone to raise commercial replacements and no way do a better job of it, who is raising them? Where do the proven commercial cows, that had to begin calving as someone's replacement heifers, you can buy come from? Someone, somewhere, is making a go of it, or there would be no good commercial cows to buy. Not all heifers are slaughtered, accidently bred, or can only be purchased from retired or bandrupt ranchers. Yes, it is expensive, but if it worked for no one, there would soon be no commercial herds anywhere. It's worked for someone every since they've sold cattle. gs

There are a lot of welfare cattle being sold. You would be surprised at the people that only look at the check and holler I made 4000 dollars on that sale. They have never put a pencil on what that heifer cost. It never ceases to amaze me when discussing cost how few people really track it. I wish I had a nickel for everytime I heard at the salebarn I don't have anything in that one I raised it. :shock:

 

[backhoeboogie]

I wish I had a nickel for everytime I heard at the salebarn I don't have anything in that one I raised it. :shock:

Just get yourself a rope and head out rounding up them long horns like they did in the 1800's. Drive them to New Orleans or to Kansas depending on the times. All you have in them is time to catch 'em and brand 'em Range is free.

Hey. I got me a pen full of FREE hogs just like that right now! Just trapped them and hauled the traps to the holding pen. Nothing in them except the cost of the traps and the bait.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I understand the cost of raising heifers, the need for additional pasture and keeping bulls. What I want to know is, if it is such a proven money loser for everyone to raise commercial replacements and no way do a better job of it, who is raising them? Where do the proven commercial cows, that had to begin calving as someone's replacement heifers, you can buy come from? Someone, somewhere, is making a go of it, or there would be no good commercial cows to buy.

Half the people have below average production costs. They might make a profit.
Some people buy low/sell high. They might make a profit.
Some people have spent lots of time developing a good rep. They might make a profit.
Lots of people work on a cash basis, and they may not charge for yardage or pasture or labor or bulls or non breeders... They have no idea if they are making a profit, and they probably are not. :help:
Some people think they will be profitable in the future and take credit for more future calves being produced, on average, from a younger female. They might be right.

The better cows come usually from dispersals. Unfortunately they are often older cattlemen who have health issues.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Buy you a set of them proven cows that has been raised on bermuda grass and put them on fescue and see what happens.

 

[plumber_greg]

I understand the cost of raising heifers, the need for additional pasture and keeping bulls. What I want to know is, if it is such a proven money loser for everyone to raise commercial replacements and no way do a better job of it, who is raising them? Where do the proven commercial cows, that had to begin calving as someone's replacement heifers, you can buy come from? Someone, somewhere, is making a go of it, or there would be no good commercial cows to buy. Not all heifers are slaughtered, accidently bred, or can only be purchased from retired or bandrupt ranchers. Yes, it is expensive, but if it worked for no one, there would soon be no commercial herds anywhere. It's worked for someone every since they've sold cattle. gs

There are a lot of welfare cattle being sold. You would be surprised at the people that only look at the check and holler I made 4000 dollars on that sale. They have never put a pencil on what that heifer cost. It never ceases to amaze me when discussing cost how few people really track it. I wish I had a nickel for everytime I heard at the salebarn I don't have anything in that one I raised it. :shock:

I agree with you there. One time I had a customer want to show me his cattle. Went to the pasture with him, saw about 40 different sized cows, with all sizes of calves on them, everything a different color, and he told me," Greg, you're not gonna' believe this, but I don't have over $75 a head in any one of the cows." I don't know where he got the figures, but from the looks of things, he actually may not have been far off!!!!! gs