cost of raising heifer to be bred vs buying bred cow

[plumber_greg]

25 years ago, when I thought I knew everything, my wife and I had a little extra money and bought 45 of the prettiest black bred heifers that had originated in Montana. After pregging them the next fall we found out why that wasn't a good idea. Our fescue tore them up, and I think about half bred back. They looked like they had no care at all. Buying what is acclimated to your conditions is one of the lessons learned the hard way. gs

 

[dun]

Buying what is acclimated to your conditions is one of the lessons learned the hard way. gs

We never had a problem moving cattle from one type of forage to another until we moved to the fescue belt. If you're lucky it will only take 2 years of substandard calves for a cow to adapt. Most don;t make it through the first year without being culled. Fescue is the great equalizer

 

[Stocker Steve]

What is fescue adaptation - - rumen, attitude, intake,???

 

[dun]

What is fescue adaptation - - rumen, attitude, intake,???

I think it has to do with the ability to tolerate the toxicity wihtout getting too sick. They seem to develop an imunity or something so that the signs of it causing problems are diminished

 

[uscangus]

There is no way to raise a heifer and make her pay out in a commercial operation, you can buy heavies cheaper than you can raise a heifer.

I can understand, Mr. Caustic, that it's tough to make one pay out. My response to that is always,"if there is no way to make her pay out in a commercial operation, where do the heavies come from?" Are people only buying heifers that accidently got bred, or from some stupid commercial operations that went broke? Someone, I am one, can raise good commercial replacement heifers for their herd, out of known genetics, and make her pay out. If someone is constantly trading money on cattle, it's very difficult to build any kind of equity base for the future. The constant paying of interest or lost opportunity of money as one buys replacements every year in order to keep the cow herd productive enough is a big expense also. I could go on, but I'm tired of typing. gs

It cost you 1400 dollars to raise a heifer to production and she might be a good cow. You can buy some mighty fine cows that already have a proven record a lot cheaper than 1400 bucks. Secondly if the purchased cow dies I can write her off as well as the upkeep to maintain her after purchase, you can only write off the retained heifer upkeep. For every heifer retained you lose income out of a cow for two years and another two years until the heifer returns income to the operation so you have upkept two cows for two years with no return. The heavy is a productive member of the herd right away. As I stated before the only reason to retain is genetic improvement and you would have to run a very special commerical herd. This is about cows that are eating my grass to produce income, not to watch for a couple years.

You can buy good heavies everyday of the year here for 800 bucks they are advertised all the time.

Edit I think Dun's herd is exception as he is one of the few using AI and really diving off into genetics he is the exception to the rule and there is genetic value there I have never been able to pencil out.

thank you board's advises- i am sorry for my delay responses because i have been out and busy. i did not know that it cost so much around 1400 dollars to raise a heifer to be in production(if she is a good cow). here, to purchase a bred register cows are around 1500(at least) and regular bred cow is around 1100. i don't see the value of buying so much on bred register cows if you are selling the bull calf as steer, if rib eye and marble number are great. the only value of buying register bred cows is to keep the young heifer. but if you know the dam's milking and ease of calving, then the value of that particular bred paper cow is valuable. when you go in the auction, it is like shooting dice. some of the bred cows are old and cull cows or yearling bred cows. you don't really see it until calving and milking.

i have a lady who has large operations(650 cows) who sell weaned calves during oct at 600-700lbs and spring. i am hoping to purchase them at a lower price in winter where hay is very limited. i am hoping the price will drop. since i have purchased 16 bred cows(angus and angus sire), i lost one and the eight calves have different conformation and sizes. each cows have different temperament. it took them several months to acclimate. some cows, i have noticed, are still dominant. some cows are packed animals with dominance. some cows are docile and crossed milked. the good cows are nearly mid age. the young cows are cull cows with temperament. at least, i am able to get calves from them and eventually sell the steer calves and paid for the cost of the bred cows. i am hoping that th ese cows will mature somedays like the mid-age cows. i had to install 6 wires (barbed wire fence) around the perimeter. boy, it was a challenge and luck of the draw.

i am hoping to buy groups of weaned heifers to be bred by june and were raised as a group. i am hoping they are not as wild and dominant as the bred cows. i hoping to see the dam cows before they are weaned to see the milking. seller is willing to let us see the sire and dam- better than the auction. uscangus.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

IMO - it is always best to buy direct from the producer.
You will always have dominant cows. All cattle herds set a "pecking" order. And even if grown out together, you will still possibly get "crazies" or "agressive" cows that you might have to weed out. But, growing up in your management will be good.

 

[uscangus]

IMO - it is always best to buy direct from the producer.
You will always have dominant cows. All cattle herds set a "pecking" order. And even if grown out together, you will still possibly get "crazies" or "agressive" cows that you might have to weed out. But, growing up in your management will be good.

i am hoping to keep the young heifer that i know the temperament of cow, dam, ease of calving, and milk production. also, since heifer are used to forage and areas, it makes it easier than buying from the auction. like shooting a dice.

you are right-Jeane-i am going straight to the producer who let you see the dam, sire, and the young heifer. prior of purchasing, it is nice that you have the access. anytime you purchase any live stock, there are time you have to cull some animals and that is part of the business. i am hoping to limit the problem. some people say that raising heifers to bred is a problem. i am hoping knowing the sire and dam of heifer would minimize or ease the problem. also, knowing the sire yearling bull with its genetic make-up would also help.

i know that yearling heifers need to be separated from the bred and adult cows since they have different requirements of nutrients.
Is it because the adult cows are more aggressive than the yearling or yearling bred heifer? i have separate manger for the yearling heifers.

jeane- i have another question for you or to any from the boards. my wf steer calf has a granulated rash on the head between the eyes(size of tangerine with gray-white colors). i notice the other angus calf has the same rash on his head. they were always head butting, like little kids. i am planning to call a vet. do any one on the boards seen this rash. the rash is not smooth or flat and granulated. thank you for your generous respones, uscangus

 

[3waycross]

USANGUS you calf has ringworm. They are probably passing it back and forth

 

[uscangus]

USANGUS you calf has ringworm. They are probably passing it back and forth

thank you for your generous advises, 3waycross.how do you treat it besides sprays and do i need to vaccinate the whole herds, including calves.

 

[greatgerts]

USANGUS you calf has ringworm. They are probably passing it back and forth

thank you for your generous advises, 3waycross.how do you treat it besides sprays and do i need to vaccinate the whole herds, including calves.

Unless it is a show calf, the best way to treat it is to let it be.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

There is no vaccination for ringworm. It is like a childhood disease - it will run it's course & they "should" never get it again. If it bothers you, you can treat it. We have to take care of it on show animals.
First, some PEOPLE are very susseptible to getting ringworm, so you might use rubber gloves. I don't - never have a problem, but I do think I had ringworm as a child.
Anyway, I take a curry comb & scrape all the dry scale off until it actually bleeds. Then I put clorox on it (don't get it in their eyes - or you can use iodine - which ever is handiest) . I use clorox because there is no staining (show cattle!). Then I just keep putting vasesline on it. Ringworm is a FUNGUS, so by keeping vaseline (or used motor oil, like the oldtimers used to do), it smothers it. Thing is, you can work on one spot & get it cleared up, but they may break out with 1 or more spots elsewhere.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

It is always best to keep different nutritional requirement groups seperated. Yes, the cows will bully the heifers away from the feed. Cattle "like" to eat together. So, yes, the young stock will eventually get to eat (after cows are finished) - but they may not eat as long as they should because their instinct is to join the rest of the group. But, it's not a problem when they are out on grass.
Also, as manager, you can supply better quality feed to the younger stock.
It is definately more management. We keep replacement heifers seperate, and coming 2-3 year olds seperate from adult cows, and c/c pairs seperated from bred cows. This time of year, we have 6 groups of cattle. Yearlings, pregnants ready to calve, pregnants not immediately due, fall c/c pairs, 2 & 3 yr old c/c pairs, & mature c/c pairs. Sure was a bugger working all 6 groups thru the chute this past Sat. for spring work-up. Spring is coming, spring is coming, spring is coming!!!!! :banana: than all the groups will be together - except the weaned fall calves - which I'll wean in about 2 weeks.

 

[uscangus]

It is always best to keep different nutritional requirement groups seperated. Yes, the cows will bully the heifers away from the feed. Cattle "like" to eat together. So, yes, the young stock will eventually get to eat (after cows are finished) - but they may not eat as long as they should because their instinct is to join the rest of the group. But, it's not a problem when they are out on grass.
Also, as manager, you can supply better quality feed to the younger stock.
It is definately more management. We keep replacement heifers seperate, and coming 2-3 year olds seperate from adult cows, and c/c pairs seperated from bred cows. This time of year, we have 6 groups of cattle. Yearlings, pregnants ready to calve, pregnants not immediately due, fall c/c pairs, 2 & 3 yr old c/c pairs, & mature c/c pairs. Sure was a bugger working all 6 groups thru the chute this past Sat. for spring work-up. Spring is coming, spring is coming, spring is coming!!!!! :banana: than all the groups will be together - except the weaned fall calves - which I'll wean in about 2 weeks.

hey, thank you very much, jeanne. how long have you been doing this business. what kind of cattles do you have. how many herds do you have (without being too personal of asking too many questions). you, dun, and bez ( and many others) are well adept in the industries. it is nice to have people in boards who are very helpful, generous, and altruistic.

anyway, in regards to ringworm, you recommend to leave it alone. when will stop. my other black angus steer is scarred on his face. will the hair grow back whether you place iodine on the areas. will it correct itself by summer from the dry heat and hotter weather. here, in northwest, our weather will be in the high 60 and too early for hotter weather. spring grass is coming. anyway, thanks for your generous responses. uscangus, :wave:

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

We run 1 herd of Purebred Simmental, been doing it for over 40 years.
you can check out our web site.
The bare spots will completely dissapear, with time. Could take a week or a month, very unpredictable.

 

[uscangus]

hey jeanne, sorry for the delay but have been busy with two practices. i regret of buying young weaned heifers from this producer because the prices are escalating. great for the seller but bad for the buyer. the prices almost near 115. i could have purchase a price around 80 about two months ago. they are expecting the prices to be 130-140 because of lack of beef cattle.

i thought jeanne that if the prices of hay are dropping that the prices of beef would drop. two string bale of hay is about 2 to 2.25. second cut is about 2.25-2.50. round bale of hay are dropping 25 to 30 dollars. we got spring too early, and the hotter temperature gets the grass will grow like fast.

i am guessing that these hays producers do not want to take a lost and return are purchasing feeders. hence, more buyers with limited or short supply of feeders. i will just wait till fall when grass are dormant during cold weather and less hays.

 

[uscangus]

my neighbor says that he would bred yearling heifer about 800-900lbs not age of 12-15months but weight and structure are his advice. he hopes to calve around the bred heifer by 1200lbs after 9 months. he has been doing this ways since 2000. the heifers are black angus and yearling angus bull with low bw, yw, ww, and great epd. he does not have to wait two years.

i would gladly accept your generous responses to the boards. uscangus

 

[MF135]

my neighbor says that he would bred yearling heifer about 800-900lbs not age of 12-15months but weight and structure are his advice. he hopes to calve around the bred heifer by 1200lbs after 9 months. he has been doing this ways since 2000. the heifers are black angus and yearling angus bull with low bw, yw, ww, and great epd. he does not have to wait two years.

i would gladly accept your generous responses to the boards. uscangus

Structure is the soundest advice. Heifers calving between 22 and 24 months of age usually will have the greatest lifetime production. IMO, heifers that aren't of appropriate breeding size and structure (60% of their mature weight) by 15months, should be culled.

 

[uscangus]

my neighbor says that he would bred yearling heifer about 800-900lbs not age of 12-15months but weight and structure are his advice. he hopes to calve around the bred heifer by 1200lbs after 9 months. he has been doing this ways since 2000. the heifers are black angus and yearling angus bull with low bw, yw, ww, and great epd. he does not have to wait two years.

i would gladly accept your generous responses to the boards. uscangus

Structure is the soundest advice. Heifers calving between 22 and 24 months of age usually will have the greatest lifetime production. IMO, heifers that aren't of appropriate breeding size and structure (60% of their mature weight) by 15months, should be culled.

he uses young yearling bulls with low bw, ww, yw, and easing calves. never had any problem breeding the heifers to
cows, each year. he would saves time and money.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

he uses young yearling bulls with low bw, ww, yw, and easing calves. never had any problem breeding the heifers to
cows, each year. he would saves time and money.

usc - I'm confused. Not sure what you are saying.

my neighbor says that he would bred yearling heifer about 800-900lbs not age of 12-15months but weight and structure are his advice. he hopes to calve around the bred heifer by 1200lbs after 9 months. he has been doing this ways since 2000. the heifers are black angus and yearling angus bull with low bw, yw, ww, and great epd. he does not have to wait two years.

Are you saying your neighbor breeds his heifers when they reach 800-900#? that would "normally" be at 12-15 months of age (or older for some Angus) (I can't imagine it's any younger than that). If he breeds them at that weight/age, they will be calving somewhere around 2 years of age - which - is what we are all saying that we do. You said "he does not have to wait two years?? what?
And, you made the comment that his bull has low BW, WW & YW and they are great EPD's. Well, low BW is great, low WW &/or low YW is NOT so great - in most managements. If he is breeding to low YW bulls, he is not getting his heifers to 800-900# at yearling age (I would have to "ASSUME")
So, am I missing something in the translation???? I must be confused. What are you trying to say?

 

[SRBeef]

It is always best to keep different nutritional requirement groups seperated. Yes, the cows will bully the heifers away from the feed. Cattle "like" to eat together. So, yes, the young stock will eventually get to eat (after cows are finished) - but they may not eat as long as they should because their instinct is to join the rest of the group. But, it's not a problem when they are out on grass.
Also, as manager, you can supply better quality feed to the younger stock.
It is definately more management. We keep replacement heifers seperate, and coming 2-3 year olds seperate from adult cows, and c/c pairs seperated from bred cows. This time of year, we have 6 groups of cattle. Yearlings, pregnants ready to calve, pregnants not immediately due, fall c/c pairs, 2 & 3 yr old c/c pairs, & mature c/c pairs. Sure was a bugger working all 6 groups thru the chute this past Sat. for spring work-up. Spring is coming, spring is coming, spring is coming!!!!! :banana: than all the groups will be together - except the weaned fall calves - which I'll wean in about 2 weeks.

Jeanne I think it is amazing that you can keep 6 separate groups of cattle. While I agree that it would be ideal to keep the nutritional groups separate, in practice I am having trouble keeping two groups let alone 6.

I do see that I am going to have to setup a third group for next year. My steers are doing very well grazing standing corn but the corn is just too much for my bull now that he is mature.

As far as breeding heifers I tried breeding them earlier than cows this past year and just did not work. This coming year the bull goes in with ALL females about June 15th.

This makes the April 1 born heifers about 14 months old They should be 800 lb. Any heifers that are not in that weight range should be culled and sold/processed with the steers about April 1 coming off corn.

As I get more into this I am feeling more that I am going to raise my own replacement heifers rather than buy any more females. Unless you are buying expensive registered stock, you just do not know what you are getting.

You can have a calving ease bull like I do and still have calving problems since the cow/heifer's genetics are still half of the equation.

The Hereford cows and heifers that I know their background just go up to the top of the hill and have a calf. Seems like the heifers I don't know anything about have one problem after another calving. Same bull same everything else.

It may cost $1400 to raise a heifer to calving but at least you know what you've got. Compared to buying a heifer at weaning for $600-700, putting a couple hundred more into her to calving and you still don't know what you are going to run into. Net difference is maybe a couple hundred $$ but not worth the chance. Ask me how I know this....

Jim