Orerancher":3ecw4c6z said:
Just remember, if it happened on Bush's watch, it was Bush's fault, and if it happens on Obama's watch, it's Bush's fault.
I know this to be fact because the unbiased, non leftist controlled media keeps saying so :roll:
Cost of fuel in your area?
- Thread starter whitewing
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Just remember, if it happened on Bush's watch, it was Bush's fault, and if it happens on Obama's watch, it's Bush's fault.
I know this to be fact because the unbiased, non leftist controlled media keeps saying so :roll:
TexasBred
Well-known member
Doesn't matter...in reality the mpg will drop at least 15% day in and day out with ethanol.Caustic Burno":1sko4ccd said:
novaman
Well-known member
I am willing to sacrifice mileage in the winter. The ethanol helps with water issues when it gets good and cold out. It's nice to save some cussing and fussing in the bitter cold by simply fueling up with 10% ethanol blend.TexasBred":3ku7pwtn said:
JHH
Well-known member
TexasBred":1eaqjbad said:
Fuel mileage will drop with it. The worse problem we have been seeing is the flex fuel cars get ahold of some that has more than they should and they dont like it. Gas is 2.759 and diesel on road is 3.099
bannedagain
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I sure hope my lawnmowers, chainsaws, water transfer pumps, boatmotors, woodsplitters, and generators don't hear about this carb problem they won't run right anymore.ga.prime":2ukvyoth said:
Just don;t let them read!bannedagain":4cgdsied said:
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/home/2 ... gines.html
http://jalopnik.com/5043482/ethanol-in- ... ll-engines
http://www.wqad.com/news/wqad-small-eng ... 5891.story
ga.prime
Well-known member
Quote from dun's wqad link: "Groups such as the National Corn Growers Association and the Renewable Fuels Association say E-10 is perfectly safe to use in small engines."dun":19ketw02 said:
Which group are you in, bannedagain?
bannedagain
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MN has forced the use of ethanol for the better part of the last two decades. None of small engines in use that I own have ever suffered any problems as a result of it. Big oil selling you a pile of bs, and you southern boys bite on it everytime. I'm telling you it doesn't happen. How many gallons of ethanol have you been forced to burn thru your equipment and small engines?
ga.prime
Well-known member
I can't prove anything one way or another. I hope you're right, banned. I haven't had any excessive carb trouble either, but I have had more than one small engine mechanic tell me they have to replace many, many carbs every year because of ethanol.
fit2btied
Well-known member
I don't know either, but a local Stihl dealer's factory warranty service man says run two tanks of ethanol through any Stihl saw and swears he can pick it out. He said his warranty work is about 70% ethanol and/or low octane related and 20% other abuse related. Again, I don't know but that's what he swears by.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
fit2btied":3keudfs3 said:
I had to put extra filters on fuel lines to my outboard, the crap cleans every tiny piece of garbage in a tank.
It is lower octane as well as it will absorb every drop of water it comes in contact with intransit to your tank reducing octane.
bannedagain
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CB
Remember now I have not had the ability to buy regular gasoline for the better part of two decades, however when at sales in states without ethanol blends I have noticed this. Regular gasoline there has an octane of 87, and E100 has a octane of 113. How does blending ethanol lower the octane? We have no 87 octane gas here, the ethanol blend is either 89 octane or 91 octane. E85 is listed at 96 octane.
Also ask camp to check his pm if you talk with him.
Remember now I have not had the ability to buy regular gasoline for the better part of two decades, however when at sales in states without ethanol blends I have noticed this. Regular gasoline there has an octane of 87, and E100 has a octane of 113. How does blending ethanol lower the octane? We have no 87 octane gas here, the ethanol blend is either 89 octane or 91 octane. E85 is listed at 96 octane.
Also ask camp to check his pm if you talk with him.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
bannedagain":9c1djng4 said:
Octane has nothing to do with the energy of the gallon of fuel you buy. It is a anti-knock measurement.
A gallon of ethanol has 76,000 btu's a gallon of gasoline 120,000 more or less depending on the blend.
This is the beauty of ethanol the government has raised our taxes and the American public didn't even pick up on this scam. The politicans took the corn lobby money and raised our taxes at the same time by reducing our mileage 15 to 20%. We buy more fuel so pay more state and federal taxes.
bannedagain
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CB
We all are aware of the BTU deal, I was just trying to understand your comment about the octane being lower in ethanol. The numbers on the pumps don't show what you are suggesting I was just wondering.
We all are aware of the BTU deal, I was just trying to understand your comment about the octane being lower in ethanol. The numbers on the pumps don't show what you are suggesting I was just wondering.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
bannedagain":2xq3lfb6 said:
This is not a simple answer as technically ethanol has no octane. This is from one of my blending sources maybe it will explain it better. It increases the antiknock properties of gasoline. Gasoline is rated in octane. Normal octane has a -10 octane rating as a Iso-Octane (trimethylpentane) has 100
The designation "octane" on gasolines is not what you might think. As you
know, octane is a hydrocarbon with the formula C8H18. You also know that
this is not the same thing as ethanol. You may suspect that there is no
simple chemical reaction that converts ethanol into octane, and you are
quite correct.
The octane rating of gasoline relates to how it behaves as a motor fuel.
You may have noticed, at some point in your driving experience, that a
gasoline engine will occasionally "knock" or "ping" under a load, such as
when you try to accelerate up a hill in a high gear. This occurs because
fuel is igniting too soon in the cylinder, under compression but before the
spark is fired. This reduces the vehicle's efficiency, and also damages
the engine. (In a gasoline engine, that is. In a diesel engine, the fuel
has to ignite under compression because there is no spark.)
Different hydrocarbons have different tendencies to ignite in this way.
One that is prone to ignition under compression is heptane, C7H16. One
that resists early ignition, and thus makes a very nice gasoline, is
2,2,4-trimethylpentane, C8H18. This is a highly-branched isomer of octane,
and is commonly called "isooctane." A gasoline engine burning heptane will
begin to knock under a light load; burning isooctane, it will be
knock-free under much higher loads. If it burns a mixture of heptane and
isooctane, the load under which it begins to knock will be somewhere in
between.
If you are buying gasoline to put in your tank, you want to have some idea
of how "good" it is for your engine, and how well your engine will perform
with it. This is why the octane rating was developed. This is a method
for comparing a new gasoline formulation to a heptane/isooctane mixture.
The rating is made this way: run a standard engine on the new fuel, and
apply an increasing load to it. Record the load under which the engine
begins to knock. Then find the heptane-isooctane mixture that causes the
engine to knock uner the same load. The octane rating of the new gasoline
is the percentage of isooctane in the isooctane/heptane mixture that causes
engine knock at the same load as the new fuel.
But wait, there's more! You may notice that on the pump, where the
gasoline's "octane" is displayed, it usually says something like "(R +
M)/2." This is because different engines may give different octane ratings
to the same fuel. The fuel industry couldn't agree on a single standard
engine, so there are two: "R" and "M." The octane rating reported for the
gasoline is the average of the rating from these two engines.
Given all that background, now I can answer your question. There are many
compounds that can be added to gasoline to increase its octane rating, and
ethanol is one of them. THAT is how ethanol increases the octane. It's
just a matter of knowing what is meant by "octane."
Richard E. Barrans Jr., Ph. D.
Chemistry Division
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
A simpler way to put it if I am blending a batch of gasoline that I am adding ethanol, I am backing out iso-octane(the good stuff) as ethanol raises the antiknock index. This allows me to use more low octane blends(lower energy hydrocarbons) n-hexane, n-heptane or n-octane in a gallon of gasoline while maintaining my octane rating.
Each blend is actually ran in a motor to test the anti-knock rating.
Each blend is actually ran in a motor to test the anti-knock rating.
skyeagle
Well-known member
2.99 for off road Diesel today. 12/30/2010
skyeagle
Well-known member
Some guys I know say thay fluff the gas at there refinery. Wounder what is going on there?
john250
Well-known member
skyeagle":neyx5ztw said:
3.22 for off road on 12-27 (monday).
Gasoline is 3.19 at the closest place.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
skyeagle":3p8s1mbo said:
This is nothing new as it is WWII technology. Through a catayltic process they crack/convert parafin chain hydrocarbons into isomers. We have even better technology today and are not buiding new refineries due to EPA regs. A typical 500,000 barrel a day refinery will produce 575,000 barrels of product.
This involves the whole spectrum of hydrocarons from converting iso-butane to tri methyl-pentane
to cracking diesel and gas oil to gasoline. That is what fluffing the barrel is.
Think of it as you have a bunch of molocules that look like spagetti and you convert them into little round balls, you have the same number of carbon molocules that take up more volume. This is why gasoline is sold by the gallon not by the pound. The same refinery I mentioned above if it charged 100 pounds in 100 pounds come out for every barrel charged 1.15 barrels come out.
