Cost of fuel in your area?

[ga.prime]

I buy gas that doesn't have ethanol in it from a store run by Hindus. Costs a little more but it's worth it.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I buy gas that doesn't have ethanol in it from a store run by Hindus. Costs a little more but it's worth it.

Here is a state by state list, just because it doesn't say it on the pump doesn't mean it's not in there. Ethanol is another mandated law of the EPA.
Ethanol is blended at the terminal just like additive packages. Gasoline is fungible product and traded in the tank farm all the time. When you buy gas from XYZ station the only thing you are guaranteed is the additive package the gas could have come from anybody.
http://e0pc.com/newreality.php

 

[ga.prime]

I buy gas that doesn't have ethanol in it from a store run by Hindus. Costs a little more but it's worth it.

Here is a state by state list, just because it doesn't say it on the pump doesn't mean it's not in there. Ethanol is another mandated law of the EPA.
Ethanol is blended at the terminal just like additive packages. Gasoline is fungible product and traded in the tank farm all the time. When you buy gas from XYZ station the only thing you are guaranteed is the additive package the gas could have come from anybody.
http://e0pc.com/newreality.php

The pump I get gas from has a sticker that says "this gas contains no ethanol". I saw the guy that delivers gas there one day and asked him if the sticker was right. He said yes , it's right. He said the Hindus won't get their gas tanks cleaned out and they can't put ethanol gas in their tanks until they're cleaned out. Now, all that may be a bunch of BS but that's what the gas delivery man told me.

 

[TexasBred]

Valero actually has oil operations and refineries in the Carribean but can't find anything that says they buy any middle east oil or oil from Venzuela. (Chavez)

 

[Caustic Burno]

Valero actually has oil operations and refineries in the Carribean but can't find anything that says they buy any middle east oil or oil from Venzuela. (Chavez)

Here you go. Valero owns no oil fields, they have no drilling company they are a refining only company, this article is a typical day on the oil trading floor of any company.
I have traded every type of crude or refined product made across the docks to any company doing business in oil products.


http://www.Weatherford.com/WirelineService

Byline: Vicki Vaughan

Jul. 9--On the sprawling trading-room floor at Valero Energy Corp.'s headquarters, planners, traders and their bosses grapple every day with a task they call "feeding the beast." Valero's 18 refineries chew through 3.3 million barrels of crude oil a day, oil that the San Antonio-based company buys from around the world.

Purchasing the oil at the best possible price and getting the right type of crude oil to the proper refinery is a daily high-wire act that is all but unknown to motorists. They just want to pull up to the pump and have the fuel available at a reasonable price.

But anyone visiting Valero's trading room gets a feel for the complexity of shipping crude oil to refineries and fuel to pumps. Recently, Joe Gorder, executive vice president of marketing and supply, led Valero's early morning dance, assessing how the beast was being fed. He heard of a litany of glitches. A lightning strike that caused a brief power outage at one plant. A power surge at another. Repairs still under way at a Louisiana refinery. Delays getting vessels through the Panama Canal, but they weren't too bad.

Edit
When it comes to crude or refined products I have traded them with every company. Example Valero has a refinery problem and is running short 100,000 barrels of gasoline they get on the phone to the traders. Exxon has what they need so they purchase the 100,000 barrels made from who knows where. There is no CAB in crude or gasoline it is all fungible and traded back and forth. I have made the joke on the floor before on how we are going to wear out that ship of crude we had traded it so many times.

http://www.desmogblog.com/largest-donor ... -tar-sands.

 

[TexasBred]

You're not gonna wear out the ship of crude....only use a lot of paper while the product sets still and may NEVER BE funded nor delivered. Not unlike commodity trading or trading of treasuries.....Valero is primarily involved in refining...but I didn't see anywhere that it said everything they refined went to their stations. As you said....tankes pull up to tank farms from every company in the state and fill up...only difference might be a small amount of additive.

 

[Caustic Burno]

You're not gonna wear out the ship of crude....only use a lot of paper while the product sets still and may NEVER BE funded nor delivered. Not unlike commodity trading or trading of treasuries.....Valero is primarily involved in refining...but I didn't see anywhere that it said everything they refined went to their stations. As you said....tankes pull up to tank farms from every company in the state and fill up...only difference might be a small amount of additive.

They all swap and buy between each other, so when you pull up to the pump there is no telling where your dollar is going. The one one thing for sure a foriegn government is going to get the biggest cut followed by the government, 35 to 50 cent a gallon in taxes ethanol averages 40 cents a gallon. Lobbiest have to eat as well.

 

[tytower]

Wow theres a lot going on in oil and gas.

Just an aside ,I wondered why people don't use alcohol (ethanol) added fuels. In years past I religiously added about 1/3 pint of methylated spirits (alcohol) to my gas tank. Thinking being the steel fuel tank got condensation overnight and that washed to the bottom of the tank. Water does not pass through a carbys jets and causes misfiring when it gets there and its too late to fix then without a strip down.

Alchohol mixes with the fuel and it can then pass through the jets.

Now I dont know if this is the same with injectors .I would guess they would maybe pass more of the water as its under pressure. Also a lot of tanks now are plastic . I go for alcohol added fuels still though as the alcohol is something we can produce ourselves, and drink

 

[dun]

Wow theres a lot going on in oil and gas.

Just an aside ,I wondered why people don't use alcohol added fuels. In years past I religiously added about 1/3 pint of methylated spirits (alcohol) to my gas tank. Thinking being the steel fuel tank got condensation overnight and that washed to the bottom of the tank. Water does not pass through a carbys jets and causes misfiring when it gets there and its too late to fix then without a strip down.

Alchohol mixes with the fuel and it can then pass through the jets.

Now I dont know if this is the same with injectors .I would guess they would maybe pass more of the water as its under pressure. Also a lot of tanks now are plastic . I go for alcohol added fuels still though as the alcohol is something we can produce ourselves, and drink

Number 1 I can;t understand running my vehicles on cattle feed, Number 2 is that even though it sells cheaper the lower fuel mileage makes it more expensive.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Wow theres a lot going on in oil and gas.

Just an aside ,I wondered why people don't use alcohol added fuels. In years past I religiously added about 1/3 pint of methylated spirits (alcohol) to my gas tank. Thinking being the steel fuel tank got condensation overnight and that washed to the bottom of the tank. Water does not pass through a carbys jets and causes misfiring when it gets there and its too late to fix then without a strip down.

Alchohol mixes with the fuel and it can then pass through the jets.

Now I dont know if this is the same with injectors .I would guess they would maybe pass more of the water as its under pressure. Also a lot of tanks now are plastic . I go for alcohol added fuels still though as the alcohol is something we can produce ourselves, and drink

Number 1 I can;t understand running my vehicles on cattle feed, Number 2 is that even though it sells cheaper the lower fuel mileage makes it more expensive.

Transportation cost on ethanol are astronomical as it can only be shipped by rail or tank truck. Can not ship it by cheaper ways in real volume barge, ship or pipeline due to water absorption.

 

[whitewing]

I filled up my Toyota Land Cruiser truck and a 55 gallon drum with gasoline today. Cost? 30 bolivares or $3.75. :shock:

The 55 gallon drum of diesel set me back 10 b's. or $1.25.

That's what got Chavez installed. He's not living in the real world. He nationalized all the foreign oil companies, seized their assets. No wonder he can sell fuel for pennies.

I don't buy fuel from Chavez's companies in the US (Valero).

Not covering for Chavez here, but you're mistaken. The cost of fuel was fixed at pennies per gallon long before anyone here ever heard of Hugo Chavez.

 

[dun]

Diesel is still 2.899 but gas dropped to 2.449

 

[tytower]

Transportation cost on ethanol are astronomical as it can only be shipped by rail or tank truck. Can not ship it by cheaper ways in real volume barge, ship or pipeline due to water absorption.

I don't agree with this at this point anyway, perhaps you could explain what you mean a bit more? .Don't really see any difference between 10% alcohol in gas compared to pure gas? as far as transportation is concerned . If its getting the pure alcohol to the mixing point at the refinery then again why is it different to transporting gas?

Number 1 I can;t understand running my vehicles on cattle feed, Number 2 is that even though it sells cheaper the lower fuel mileage makes it more expensive.Dun

I usually agree with you . Its not just cattle feed its anything that makes sugars as you know . Here its sugar cane .Remember the old methane gas tanks up on top of the roof during the war ? run on pig shite. That will probably come back at some stage.

But on the lower fuel mileage I have watched my mileage over 8 years and have noticed no difference whatever , I get 100klms per 8 litres . I'm not gonna try converting that its too early in the morning. What I mean is my car is pretty economical on fuel so any difference between normal gas and ethanol blended would show up more clearly than say a gas guzzler.

 

[TexasBred]

Ty you can get you a tank of this mess up here and definitely see the fuel milage drop. Enough to offset any savings in the cost of the ethanol. CB is correct about the shipping as well.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Transportation cost on ethanol are astronomical as it can only be shipped by rail or tank truck. Can not ship it by cheaper ways in real volume barge, ship or pipeline due to water absorption.

I don't agree with this at this point anyway, perhaps you could explain what you mean a bit more? .Don't really see any difference between 10% alcohol in gas compared to pure gas? as far as transportation is concerned . If its getting the pure alcohol to the mixing point at the refinery then again why is it different to transporting gas?

Number 1 I can;t understand running my vehicles on cattle feed, Number 2 is that even though it sells cheaper the lower fuel mileage makes it more expensive.Dun

I usually agree with you . Its not just cattle feed its anything that makes sugars as you know . Here its sugar cane .Remember the old methane gas tanks up on top of the roof during the war ? run on pig shite. That will probably come back at some stage.

But on the lower fuel mileage I have watched my mileage over 8 years and have noticed no difference whatever , I get 100klms per 8 litres . I'm not gonna try converting that its too early in the morning. What I mean is my car is pretty economical on fuel so any difference between normal gas and ethanol blended would show up more clearly than say a gas guzzler.

A pound of gasoline has 125,000 BTU's a Gallon with 10% ethanol has around 100,000 BTU's it is as simple as that.
It is simple physics takes x pounds of energy to move Y pounds down the road. Less energy requires more pounds of fuel to move Y pounds.

 

[ga.prime]

You get less perfomance from ethanol and just ask your chain saw dealer what ethanol does to small engine carburetors.

 

[novaman]

Gasoline has 125,000 BTU's a Gallon with 10% ethanol has around 100,000 BTU's it is as simple as that.
It is simple physics takes x pounds of energy to move Y pounds down the road. Less energy requires more pounds of fuel to move Y pounds.

I think your calculations are off a bit. A gallon of gas has 125k BTU's. A gallon of ethanol contains 76k BTU's. A 90:10 gas to ethanol computes to be ~120k BTU's or about 4% less energy than straight gas. Should equate to a 4% loss in fuel mileage.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Gasoline has 125,000 BTU's a Gallon with 10% ethanol has around 100,000 BTU's it is as simple as that.
It is simple physics takes x pounds of energy to move Y pounds down the road. Less energy requires more pounds of fuel to move Y pounds.

I think your calculations are off a bit. A gallon of gas has 125k BTU's. A gallon of ethanol contains 76k BTU's. A 90:10 gas to ethanol computes to be ~120k BTU's or about 4% less energy than straight gas. Should equate to a 4% loss in fuel mileage.

You may be right i would have to pull a blending manuel out of the closet. I know gasoline is 125,000 BTU's and ethanol was lower. Dang now I have to look that up.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Went back and looked through my blending books and the BTU's listed is 108,000 to 110,000.

 

[dun]

diesel stil 2.899 gas is back upto 2.699