Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
Seen plenty of good gentle cows that would knock the heck out of you when they had a new calf. I consider that a good maternal instinct.
Consistent Maternal Attitudes ?
- Thread starter Stocker Steve
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Poor disposition is the first reason to cull a heifer from the keeper pen. Don't want those cows on the place. However, many good cows with adequate dispositions might be a little aggressive in protecting their newborn calves for a day or two before reverting to docile. That is normal behavior and not what I am talking about. I am talking about the ones that are aggressive and/or flighty every day of the year. If you feed cattle, you know disposition affects gain as well.
Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
All kinds of cattle in the world. Different folks like different things in there cattle. I don't want a cow that won't at least try and bluff me out around a new calf.
We are not exactly in the registered business, although I sell a few bulls and replacements to neighbors. Just private treaty, no production sales and don't participate in shows. My grandpa started the operation in the early 1950s and my dad inherited it. I am 60 and have always raised cattle. The only way new genetics come on the place is in a semen straw or via the occasional purchased cleanup bull. I am confident in saying the quality of the average cow in my herd is quite high in comparison to the commercial herds in our region. 30 years of using AI has it's rewards. Additionally, adequate pasture, quality hay and availability of locally grown feed allow the cattle to express performance. We are located between the fescue belt and the plains, which is a very good area for cattle. I guess what I am saying is that when the average quality of the potential keepers is good, disposition can be the deciding factor is selecting between two otherwise comparable heifers. I don't need to keep that slightly nervous gal, because I have enough similar heifers that appear docile. I let somebody else deal with the flighty ones. A heifer needs to be good in every department to stay here. I've had enough experience handling cattle that disposition is the first thing I look at after the weaning weights.
bird dog
Well-known member
I think there is more to learning than people realize. Heifers seem to want to calve alone and wait a few days before rejoining the herd. This can lead to problems with varmints. I have had a couple lose their first calf because of this but the seem to learn and the next year it is not a issue. Another thing that irks me is a heifer that leaves her calf out in the hot sun while she retreats to the shade. The old cows don't do this but the heifers don't seem to know better. Older cows that come to a new location sometimes have the same problems.
It seems to me a cow needs to learn the dangers the hard way to figure it out but I would not cull and take a big loss on the animal on her first go round if this was her only issue.
It seems to me a cow needs to learn the dangers the hard way to figure it out but I would not cull and take a big loss on the animal on her first go round if this was her only issue.
Taurus
Well-known member
Sometimes its better to cull a heifer if she lost her calf for some reasons. I made this mistake too many times. It seems that their disposition just got worse when they had their second calf.
Wild cows, nervous cows, mean and aggressive cows all make poor mothers. A nervous or aggressive disposition usually equates with poor performance in the feed lot, as well. They get distracted and don't take care of their business. I have no idea what the university research says on the subject. However, that has been my experience and is how I was taught.[/quote]
The cows you talk about are always the ones I WANT to get rid of. But never can. Always have biggest calf, breed back early and never need any help. I've been helping local guys since I was old enough to walk with calving, moving and working cattle and I have never heard someone say that wild SOB can't raise a calf. It's always I'd love to get rid of that prick but she raises best calf every year.[/quote]
This is spot on! I always found the wildest head up in the air types were the most attentive mothers. I get rid of them at the first slip up or most convenient time though
The cows you talk about are always the ones I WANT to get rid of. But never can. Always have biggest calf, breed back early and never need any help. I've been helping local guys since I was old enough to walk with calving, moving and working cattle and I have never heard someone say that wild SOB can't raise a calf. It's always I'd love to get rid of that prick but she raises best calf every year.[/quote]
This is spot on! I always found the wildest head up in the air types were the most attentive mothers. I get rid of them at the first slip up or most convenient time though
Stocker Steve":321926rc said:The older calves move with the herd. The ones that get left behind are usually a month old or less. Seems to be more of an issue with some continental breeds. Our grazing areas are long and have creeks in them, so sometimes we have to move across a swampy area and through the woods plus a couple gates. It is not simple to go back.
The funny cows are the ones that rush into the new paddock, eat for a couple minutes, then realize their calf is not there, and then run screaming back to the previous paddock.
The not so funny (purchased) cow is the one ran back and tried to take on my wife (who was still in the previous paddock). The cow obviously had some attitude, thought the calf had been stolen from her, and blamed the nearest person. Where is the love?
Steve, your initial post had me thinking of something else. Maternal is such a subjective buzzword. IT means something different to everyone. Kind of like linebreeding
Cows being attentive to their calf in the first few days is a good thing. After a week or so I think they act kinda like deer and their calf beds down in a "nest" so momma can go eat. Paddocks changes are not exactly in their DNA. Ranch cattle are especially shocked by this. Most cattle are set stocked as I am sure you know. When we have to move fields not just up one paddock with polywire, we muster everyone up. Calves usually go for milk and mother up. Then we move everyone.I guess what I am sayin is you are askin maybe a tad bit too much.
I would probably ship the one that went after your wife. That would be the last time mine ever helped me thats for sure
NWMoAngus":2gx32wz1 said:
Last one, NWMO I have driven through your area a few times to avoid KC on my way back from OK. If I have you pinned right it is not cow heaven in my opinion. It is arguable about your mention a few times about your cheap grain making better cattle. Your area is not special outside of the arid west and NW. Have you left the farm in a while? Most of us have access to feed mills and grow our own feed/hay. I know folks here disagree with me on this, but AI is not the holy grail on everything especially maternal. Few actually have any first hand intimate knowledge of the females behind the straw. If you are breeding the type I think you have, they would fall apart in a lot of places. Nobody has the perfect type for all places. That is another thing to consider with the straw.
Nesikep
Well-known member
I like my cows to be good mothers, but want them to know that there's a difference between me and a coyote.. hey, I don't look anything like a yote! It's true that a lot of the highest strung cows I have are only here because they've got good milk though, and I'm waiting for an excuse to get rid of them. That being said, I've got one line that's up and coming that look like they'll be fantastic producers, very docile, but alert to 'foreigners'... the whole lot of them are milkable and come running up to me, but stay 50 ft away from anyone else including my parents.. I don't think they'd have to be THAT selective about who they like, but I know they don't like dogs, cats, or big flying things around their calves.. it works for me!
AllForage":16dtvxe6 said:
We are a few miles northeast of St. Joe. About half way between I-29 and I-35, where you most likely drove through on your way to or from Wiscy. We are not in the fescue belt. That is farther east and south. Many pastures have been converted into row crop in the region, but that should abate with grain prices slacking off. Several ethanol plants and a couple of soybean processors in the area offer a number of corn and soybean byproduct feed sources. There is ample grass, hay, grains. The hub of the U.S. livestock pharmaceutical industry is here. We have many active auction markets competing in the region. As far as Angus, the people who run the AAA are our neighbors. Commercial herds consist mostly of Angus and Angus crosses. There are few dairies, a few feeders here and there and not many Hereford of Continental breeders. Mostly small to moderate sized cow calf operations. I suppose the central and northern plains can more accurately be described at cow heaven, but we have been doing well here for six generations. BTW, my son-in-law played for the Packers from 05 through the 08 seasons and we made the trip up through Des Moines, Dubuque, & Madison to Green Bay. Nothing I saw in Wisconsin impressed by as cattle country. Dairy country maybe. And I doubt good beef cows could understand those northern accents.
NWMoAngus":2rowcw2t said:
Link of recent article reporting on K-State research on temperament.
http://www.cattletradercenter.com/ctc_n ... m_content=
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
NWMoAngus":3vfg5ks0 said:
What was the beef with the rolling country east of Duuque?
redcowsrule33
Well-known member
NWMoAngus":3odvq7ej said:
What accent? ;-)
Temperament is a big deal at our place because our cattle are worked on foot 100%, and most of out bull customers are the same. We have one girl that figured out she is bigger than us and will charge us if she doesn't want to do what we are suggesting. She will be leaving this year even though she raises a good calf. We have sent plenty of nice heifers down the road and cut good bull calves on temperament. Getting that less and less as the years go by and the genes get removed. Not that some of our girls aren't a bit growly at calving time, but that's okay, only works against them if the weather is bad and they won't let us bring the calves in.
SteppedInIt
Well-known member
Stocker Steve":2et85a0t said:
I think its just their personality differences. Where do they get their personalities? LOL don't answer... :bang:
I see different levels of mothering in my cattle. Some seem overprotective, not so much, and some hardly, but I think all my cows are good mothers or they would be gone. I have confidence in them. They all raise healthy calves without my assistance.
This years bred heifers... I guess we will find out when they calve. I wonder about a few of them because of their personality. :lol:
Nesikep
Well-known member
I've had heifers be really good from mothers that are horrid, and the other way around too. Last one that calved was a first timer, took her a bit to figure out she had to lick, and she figured it out while I was trying to get the calf to suck.. well, I got the brunt of the lickings, with no shirt on. *ouch*... then after the calf had a meal and I left, she took care of the calf and has been really good since... still licks me to death when I'm around though.
I have a bred heifer this year I'm unsure of, seems flighty and stupid, and I'm not all that keen about her build.. I'll give her a shot and see what her calves look like
I have a bred heifer this year I'm unsure of, seems flighty and stupid, and I'm not all that keen about her build.. I'll give her a shot and see what her calves look like
cow pollinater
Well-known member
Not to be arguementative but I didn't see anything in there about maternal ability. It stands to reason that cattle in confinement would be better served by having a disposition conducive to confinement but that is not the same subject as a cow calf operation on range.NWMoAngus":2kksnb1b said:
Think I used the term "temperament". My 50 years of experience indicates temperament impacts mothering ability directly. Although I have seen mean or flighty cows perform/produce well enough to stay in the herd, their disposition is often passed on to their offspring where it impacts feed lot performance. It has been my experience that I am better off culling those cows and not keeping their heifers in the herd. I don't keep every heifer that looks the part. She might have above average performance/ weight gains & EPDs, a fantastic pedigree and come from a line of dams that earned their right to stay on the place. But if she exhibits signs of being flighty, she gets culled. I don't have to keep those animals on the place and I don't. Some of you think performance should be the only factor. I disagree. There are plenty of heifers to choose from.
Nesikep
Well-known member
To each their own.. Know a fellow who doesn't even look at his cows at calving, darned right they were flighty and mean, but they dealt with anything, wolves, bears, etc, and did just fine, they were mostly horned Salers (some surprise). Since he started breeding RA into the herd, he's had more and more losses from predators, and I guess now he has the WORST of both worlds, cows that are just mean enough to not let you around, but not REALLY mean enough to take care of themselves.
I wouldn't want his cows, though they worked well for him, I may have to intervene more often with mine, but it's so much less stressful when I need to. That's what works for me. I do require a certain IQ on my cows... it goes like this.. "You see me every day, I feed you, I am not a bear, I am not a coyote, and I'm not a cougar, figure that out!". Most are pretty good about that now
I wouldn't want his cows, though they worked well for him, I may have to intervene more often with mine, but it's so much less stressful when I need to. That's what works for me. I do require a certain IQ on my cows... it goes like this.. "You see me every day, I feed you, I am not a bear, I am not a coyote, and I'm not a cougar, figure that out!". Most are pretty good about that now
