Consistent Maternal Attitudes ?

[Stocker Steve]

I consistently have good mothering out of retained heifers from my top cows. I consistently have issues with some of my purchased heifers. They range from not mothering up at all, to leaving the calf behind on a paddock move, to just being indifferent and not staying close to the calf.

Do you think mothering traits are inherited, or learned, or both?

 

[Aaron]

Perhaps both. Bought two open yearling heifers from neighbour in 2009. Both good looking and easy going, but one heifer came off a cow that would feed a calf, but never really care for it. Well, 2010 comes along and that same heifer calves and bolts from the calf. Had to lock her in the chute and hold calf from behind to nurse. She eventually allowed it to suck in the open field, but never looked for it if it wandered away, or even called for it or licked it, from birth to weaning. Beautiful udder and high butterfat, so calf was a monster at weaning. But for the reason of being a terrible mother alone, she got on the bus for the packer when the calf was weaned. Other yearling heifer is a top notch cow that is still in the herd and has made me a boatload of money over the years.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I also cull for mothering. So, do we need a mothering EPD? ;-)

 

[Aaron]

Not necessarily. Herefords have a stayability EPD, which would mean that a high score in such a trait would minimize the chances of poor maternal traits. Poor mothers don't stick around all that long.

 

[Nesikep]

I think it's a bit of both, I have a line of cows that are ALWAYS good mothers.. The grandma wouldn't let the calf play because she was too concerned about it for about the first month.

Then I've had others that couldn't give a darn about their calf, but the heifers from them turned out great, don't know why some do and don't, but there's certainly a degree of hit or miss regardless of mother was. I will say I haven't had many problems with cows wanting to kill their calf at least!

 

[Son of Butch]

I consistently have good mothering out of retained heifers. I consistently have issues with some of my purchased heifers.

Do you think mothering traits are inherited, or learned, or both?

Inherited.
But, environment can influence the degree of expression of the inherited trait.
Usually purchased heifers are available for sale rather than retained by owner because they aren't from his best cows,
which would influence their not being as maternal as female herd mates retained.

 

[NWMoAngus]

I consistently have good mothering out of retained heifers. I consistently have issues with some of my purchased heifers.

Do you think mothering traits are inherited, or learned, or both?

Inherited.
But, environment can influence the degree of expression of the inherited trait.
Usually purchased heifers are available for sale rather than retained by owner because they aren't from his best cows,
which would influence their not being as maternal as female herd mates retained.

Totally agree with this. We have been improving our herd through AI for 30 years. Always concentrated on the maternal in sire selection and selected replacements with a bias toward the dam side. Consequently, it is extremely rare in our operation for a heifer not to exhibit normal maternal instincts. We just don't have those problems.

 

[Stocker Steve]

We have been improving our herd through AI for 30 years. Always concentrated on the maternal in sire selection and selected replacements with a bias toward the dam side. Consequently, it is extremely rare in our operation for a heifer not to exhibit normal maternal instincts. We just don't have those problems.

How do you access the maternal attitude of an AI sire?

 

[dun]

I think in a lot of ways it's a crap shoot. Inherited and learned but still you will get the one that just doesn;t work out. The cow I wrote about somehewhre else that raised her first claf great and was a super mother and tried to kill her second calf was from 3 generations of exceptional mothers. Now we hope for the best, expect the worse and accept whatever happens. But if a cow doesn;t do her job to my satisfaction either maternally or attentively, she gets a ride. Fortunatly we haven;t had any of those in a good number of years.

 

[Nesikep]

reminds me of one of my big hippo cows a couple years ago.. had a little heifer calf and she got SO excited she was running around it, licking it, and throwing it around... you didn't dare interfere with this 2000 lb cow and raging hormones, but the calf made it just fine, but looked like a rag doll getting thrown around

 

[NWMoAngus]

We have been improving our herd through AI for 30 years. Always concentrated on the maternal in sire selection and selected replacements with a bias toward the dam side. Consequently, it is extremely rare in our operation for a heifer not to exhibit normal maternal instincts. We just don't have those problems.

How do you access the maternal attitude of an AI sire?

Assume you meant assess. There are maternal and disposition EPDs available as a selection tool in the Angus breed. So there's that tool. Disposition heavily impacts a cow's maternal qualities. However, the best source of information is word of mouth connection to other breeders, professional show jocks and fitters in Missouri. I know several professional fitters. People whose services are in demand for high profile registered production sales. You can learn a lot about the big dog herds around the country and of any problems others are having with the progeny of certain heavily used sires. Two of my semen jocks are in this category. Additionally, the American Angus Association is headquartered 20 miles away in St. Joe. So, I guess those of us raising Angus in this area have a bit of an advantage in terms of inside info.

 

[AllForage]

We have been improving our herd through AI for 30 years. Always concentrated on the maternal in sire selection and selected replacements with a bias toward the dam side. Consequently, it is extremely rare in our operation for a heifer not to exhibit normal maternal instincts. We just don't have those problems.

How do you access the maternal attitude of an AI sire?

Assume you meant assess. There are maternal and disposition EPDs available as a selection tool in the Angus breed. So there's that tool. Disposition heavily impacts a cow's maternal qualities. However, the best source of information is word of mouth connection to other breeders, professional show jocks and fitters in Missouri. I know several professional fitters. People whose services are in demand for high profile registered production sales. You can learn a lot about the big dog herds around the country and of any problems others are having with the progeny of certain heavily used sires. Two of my semen jocks are in this category. Additionally, the American Angus Association is headquartered 20 miles away in St. Joe. So, I guess those of us raising Angus in this area have a bit of an advantage in terms of inside info.

There you guys go, us folks outside the registered BS game and the glorious corn belt are just plain out of luck. Guess I will keep feeding apple cores and potato skins

 

[AllForage]

I consistently have good mothering out of retained heifers from my top cows. I consistently have issues with some of my purchased heifers. They range from not mothering up at all, to leaving the calf behind on a paddock move, to just being indifferent and not staying close to the calf.

Do you think mothering traits are inherited, or learned, or both?

Steve,

When you say paddock moves, how old are the calves when you observe this? Are these purchased cows from more ranch type areas?

 

[skeeter swatter]

I consistently have good mothering out of retained heifers from my top cows. I consistently have issues with some of my purchased heifers. They range from not mothering up at all, to leaving the calf behind on a paddock move, to just being indifferent and not staying close to the calf.

Do you think mothering traits are inherited, or learned, or both?

Both.

 

[Stocker Steve]

The older calves move with the herd. The ones that get left behind are usually a month old or less. Seems to be more of an issue with some continental breeds. Our grazing areas are long and have creeks in them, so sometimes we have to move across a swampy area and through the woods plus a couple gates. It is not simple to go back.
The funny cows are the ones that rush into the new paddock, eat for a couple minutes, then realize their calf is not there, and then run screaming back to the previous paddock.
The not so funny (purchased) cow is the one ran back and tried to take on my wife (who was still in the previous paddock). The cow obviously had some attitude, thought the calf had been stolen from her, and blamed the nearest person. Where is the love?

 

[artesianspringsfarm]

Assume you meant assess. There are maternal and disposition EPDs available as a selection tool in the Angus breed. So there's that tool. Disposition heavily impacts a cow's maternal qualities. However, the best source of information is word of mouth connection to other breeders, professional show jocks and fitters in Missouri. I know several professional fitters. People whose services are in demand for high profile registered production sales. You can learn a lot about the big dog herds around the country and of any problems others are having with the progeny of certain heavily used sires. Two of my semen jocks are in this category. Additionally, the American Angus Association is headquartered 20 miles away in St. Joe. So, I guess those of us raising Angus in this area have a bit of an advantage in terms of inside info.[/quote]



There you guys go, us folks outside the registered BS game and the glorious corn belt are just plain out of luck. Guess I will keep feeding apple cores and potato skins [/quote]

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: Oh man, AllForage, I've missed having your alternative voice of sarcastic common sense. Please post more! Hope your are doing well. If you have any current pics of those potato fed bulls of yours I would love to see them.

 

[cow pollinater]

Disposition heavily impacts a cow's maternal qualities.

Where did you come up with that one? :???:

 

[NWMoAngus]

Disposition heavily impacts a cow's maternal qualities.

Where did you come up with that one? :???:

Wild cows, nervous cows, mean and aggressive cows all make poor mothers. A nervous or aggressive disposition usually equates with poor performance in the feed lot, as well. They get distracted and don't take care of their business. I have no idea what the university research says on the subject. However, that has been my experience and is how I was taught.

 

[Till-Hill]

Disposition heavily impacts a cow's maternal qualities.

Where did you come up with that one? :???:

Wild cows, nervous cows, mean and aggressive cows all make poor mothers. A nervous or aggressive disposition usually equates with poor performance in the feed lot, as well. They get distracted and don't take care of their business. I have no idea what the university research says on the subject. However, that has been my experience and is how I was taught.

The cows you talk about are always the ones I WANT to get rid of. But never can. Always have biggest calf, breed back early and never need any help. I've been helping local guys since I was old enough to walk with calving, moving and working cattle and I have never heard someone say that wild SOB can't raise a calf. It's always I'd love to get rid of that prick but she raises best calf every year.

 

[cow pollinater]

Disposition heavily impacts a cow's maternal qualities.

Where did you come up with that one? :???:

Wild cows, nervous cows, mean and aggressive cows all make poor mothers.

Not all... I have some cows that are flat out freakin' nuts but they do a heck of a job with a calf and that earns them a place here. I have a handful that continue to chase the truck after the hay is off to get to ME but they do a he!! of a job and believe me, I'm not cutting them any slack! :lol:
I have had a few that were nuts that were crappy moms but I've had just as many that were gentle and still crappy moms. I don't believe disposition and maternal ability have anything to do with each other.