clover and grazon

[fenceman]

Considering adding crimson clover to some of my winter grazing. Some of my ground has been sprayed with grazonp+d. Some has been sprayed with tordon22. Any thoughts on if I should avoid these areas with the clover

 

[greybeard]

Research wasn't done in Texas but this should give you an idea of how long to wait before planting clover:
http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLite ... 8895ff.pdf

Recommendations for Illinois (IL), Iowa (IA), Minnesota (MN), Nebraska (NE), and Wisconsin (WI).
• Grazon® P+D or GraznNext® HL up to 2 pints per acre:
» When applied in the spring or early summer (before July 15), forage legumes should not be planted the year of herbicide
application but should be planted the following spring.
» When the applications are made in the fall, forage legume planting should be delayed until the following fall or the spring after
that (12 to 18 months after application

Recommendations for North Carolina (NC), Tennessee (TN), Pennsylvania (PA), Kentucky (KY), West Virginia
(WV), and Virginia (VA).
• Grazon® P+D or GrazonNext® HL up to 2 pints per acre:
» Forage legumes can be drill-planted in the fall or spring four months or more following application.
» Fall treatments should be made no later than September 15th before a spring planting.

 

[JWBrahman]

Just wanna add some personal experience: you will need to use a fertilizer with added zinc in the spots you sprayed. Every feed store in your area will have it to fertilize pecan trees. Grazon creates a zinc deficiency in the soil. Even the weeds get rosettes in the fields where you use Grazon two years in a row.

 

[fenceman]

Research wasn't done in Texas but this should give you an idea of how long to wait before planting clover:
http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLite ... 8895ff.pdf

Recommendations for Illinois (IL), Iowa (IA), Minnesota (MN), Nebraska (NE), and Wisconsin (WI).
• Grazon® P+D or GraznNext® HL up to 2 pints per acre:
» When applied in the spring or early summer (before July 15), forage legumes should not be planted the year of herbicide
application but should be planted the following spring.
» When the applications are made in the fall, forage legume planting should be delayed until the following fall or the spring after
that (12 to 18 months after application

Recommendations for North Carolina (NC), Tennessee (TN), Pennsylvania (PA), Kentucky (KY), West Virginia
(WV), and Virginia (VA).
• Grazon® P+D or GrazonNext® HL up to 2 pints per acre:
» Forage legumes can be drill-planted in the fall or spring four months or more following application.
» Fall treatments should be made no later than September 15th before a spring planting.

Good info thanks

Just wanna add some personal experience: you will need to use a fertilizer with added zinc in the spots you sprayed. Every feed store in your area will have it to fertilize pecan trees. Grazon creates a zinc deficiency in the soil. Even the weeds get rosettes in the fields where you use Grazon two years in a row.

Good to know, thanks.

 

[Sd1030]

Fm ive talked a neighboring farmer and he told me that if using grazon i think it was that you could forget about having clover for two years. I do not know the rates he was spraying or any of that i just remember we were talking bout different chemicals and remember him saying that. I for one havent never messed with any personally so i dont know.

 

[Jbonnot03]

I am not sure about planting clover behind the chemical application, however, we have a couple of pastures with a lot of clover and we never spray a Picloram product due to its residual activity. Dad says it will significantly hurt the clover.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Considering adding crimson clover to some of my winter grazing. Some of my ground has been sprayed with grazonp+d. Some has been sprayed with tordon22. Any thoughts on if I should avoid these areas with the clover

I quit Grazon years ago because of the seed bank.
My clover and rye grass comes back thick every year.
Grazon can't tell a good seed from a bad one.
Protecting the seed bank is the reason I went to 2-4-D and Remedy.

 

[fenceman]

Ryegras affected???

 

[Caustic Burno]

Ryegras affected???

Anytime you spray any seed on the ground is effected.
Any seed in the bank will be taken out that comes into contact with Grazon or
the residual.
Grazon can't tell the difference in good seed versus bad.

 

[Bigfoot]

I sprayed 10 or 11 acres with grazon. Never seen anything like it in my life. Leveled every weed, and bramble in the field, and no weeds came back. Tickled to death with the results. I've been contemplating the residual ever since I done it. Kinda wish I hadn't now. The paticular field I sprayed, no harm no foul. My purest stand of fescue on the place. I want be seeding, or reseeding anything there for years. I don't belive I'll be using it anymore though. Still, most effective product I've ever seen. I just want the option of my wild summer grasses, clover, lespedeza, and rye.

 

[fenceman]

I'm not trying to dispute anyone. I appreciate everyone's help on this. I spent a bit of time researching this yesterday and thought I would share what I was told.
I talked with tamu agrilife, my local certified crop advisor, and Mr Dalrymple of Estelle farms. The crabgrass people.
On cereal grains 60 days to plant. Cca says it's done regularly inside 30 days with no problem.
Never could get a hard answer on clover but general consensus was 60days.
Mr Dalrymple said No effect on crabgrass. I asked him twice to be sure. He confidently claims the picloram won't effect the crabgrass seed.
It seems like the residual effect decreases in hotter drier climates.
I have received a lot of conflicting information on this and I appreciate everyone's help. We'll see.

 

[Bigfoot]

I'm not trying to dispute anyone. I appreciate everyone's help on this. I spent a bit of time researching this yesterday and thought I would share what I was told.
I talked with tamu agrilife, my local certified crop advisor, and Mr Dalrymple of Estelle farms. The crabgrass people.
On cereal grains 60 days to plant. Cca says it's done regularly inside 30 days with no problem.
Never could get a hard answer on clover but general consensus was 60days.
Mr Dalrymple said No effect on crabgrass. I asked him twice to be sure. He confidently claims the picloram won't effect the crabgrass seed.
It seems like the residual effect decreases in hotter drier climates.
I have received a lot of conflicting information on this and I appreciate everyone's help. We'll see.

That's good to know. I would trust Estil,over me any day. I wonder if "volunteer" crabgrass is as tolerant of grazon as the "improved" varieties. BTW, i think the improved varieties are just hand picked from native.

 

[fenceman]

I'm not trying to dispute anyone. I appreciate everyone's help on this. I spent a bit of time researching this yesterday and thought I would share what I was told.
I talked with tamu agrilife, my local certified crop advisor, and Mr Dalrymple of Estelle farms. The crabgrass people.
On cereal grains 60 days to plant. Cca says it's done regularly inside 30 days with no problem.
Never could get a hard answer on clover but general consensus was 60days.
Mr Dalrymple said No effect on crabgrass. I asked him twice to be sure. He confidently claims the picloram won't effect the crabgrass seed.
It seems like the residual effect decreases in hotter drier climates.
I have received a lot of conflicting information on this and I appreciate everyone's help. We'll see.

That's good to know. I would trust Estil,over me any day. I wonder if "volunteer" crabgrass is as tolerant of grazon as the "improved" varieties. BTW, i think the improved varieties are just hand picked from native.

I can't tell much difference in the red river and the native. I can tell the difference in the quick and big. It's much more stemy, and grows more upright. I don't really see it Being better grazing, but probably better for hay. Also has a noticeably slicker seed.( flows through drill better)
I don't know what to think about the grazonp+d thing. I told Mr Dalrymple my crabgrass had been grazed into oblivion after it made seed. Nothing growing due to no rain for two months. I explained I had inherited a large quantity of grazonp+d. He said use it .It could be said he'd like to sell me some more seed.
But you know, when I first bought seed from him,he almost backed out on selling it to me. When he found out I had clay soil. Offered to send me a little uncertifed seed to try first. He sure seems honest to me. Like I said well see.

 

[Bigfoot]

I've spoke to him on the phone in the past--------good man.