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dun

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I think I've figured out why so many of the breeds are going black.

The want to give folks as many coices as Herefords and Angus.
Angus RED or black, Herefords Polled or horned.
What a deal

dun
 

Frankie

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dun":2hayp63j said:
I think I've figured out why so many of the breeds are going black.

The want to give folks as many coices as Herefords and Angus.
Angus RED or black, Herefords Polled or horned.
What a deal
dun


:D :D

Do you really think that's the reason???

BTW, have you looked into marketing your calves with Premium Gold Angus? We heard an ABS rep speak recently and he mentioned they have teamed up with PGA and are looking for people using ABS genetics. I haven't seen too much about that program for a while, but I think they're interested in Angus or Red Angus.
 

PATB

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dun it is all about dollars and marketability. Black hided cattle bring more in my area. The area feedlots get a $12 premium from the packer for each black hided animal they supply above and beyound that if they make CAB or grade prime.
 

txshowmom

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Because of the tred with the Certified Angus Beef Program people have it in their head that black is better, therefore it is worth more. Angus beef is not superior. I am not trying to down the Angus people we run an Angus bull wiyth our heifers, but I have been told by people in the beef industry that anything black can be sold as certified Angus beef. Black may or may not be better, but it definatle sells better.
 

la4angus

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txshowmom":45qftl61 said:
but I have been told by people in the beef industry that anything black can be sold as certified Angus beef.

Wrong

The people in the beef industry that told you this, do not know what they are talking about.

Anything black cannot be sold as Certified Angus Beef. It has to meet the USDA grading standards for choice or prime, and also the CAB specifications.
 

txshowmom

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Your the guru! I was just repeating what I was told by someone that SHOULD have known. My apoligies.
 

la4angus

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txshowmom":1dqiiskl said:
Your the guru! I was just repeating what I was told by someone that SHOULD have known. My apoligies.
No apologies necessary. I am not trying to be rude but just stating the facts.
People that don't know the facts are the ones that start unhealthy rumors.
If you care to, send me your e-mail address and I will send you the specs.
 

certherfbeef

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Because of the tred with the Certified Angus Beef Program people have it in their head that black is better, therefore it is worth more. Angus beef is not superior. I am not trying to down the Angus people we run an Angus bull wiyth our heifers, but I have been told by people in the beef industry that anything black can be sold as certified Angus beef. Black may or may not be better, but it definatle sells better.


Just a side note here folks.....That is not me!!! Thanks ~Missi
 
A

Anonymous

Txshowmom,

You were almost correct. For cattle to first off qualify for the CAB program they need to be at least 51% black hided. That's it. No proof of breed %. Cattle to qualify can be 100% Black Angus or it can be 0% Black Angus. But some (4 out of 30 plus) Black Angus programs require genetic proof. Then once the carcass is hanging then they determine whether it is stamped CAB or not.

When the program started about 30 years ago the predominate black cattle were Black Angus. And those now that have black cattle (Simm, Salers, Black Chianina, Maine Anjou, ect)may have put a little Angus in there to start with, but with this many years gone by some will have little to no Black Angus in the lineage. Old country Fullbloods verses American Purebreds in some instances.

Now they are doing genetic testing and they are finding that 47% of non Angus cattle fit the CAB program.
 

beef

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Donna:

I read about a study which is probably the same one you referred to when you stated:

"Now they are doing genetic testing and they are finding that 47% of non Angus cattle fit the CAB program."

I you will go back and read the study, I think that you will find that the 47 percent figure is associated with an Angus-based program, and is not attributed specifically to Certified Angus Beef.

There are a number of brands that use the word "Angus". Some have lower marbling standards than Certified Angus Beef. I am aware of at least one that accepts a marbling score which is in the top 2/3 of Select. The specifications for Certified Angus Beef require a marbling score in the top 2/3 of Choice.
 

CattleAnnie

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On the topic of breeds turning colour, so to speak; early this winter I read a blurb in the Charolais' publication that they had accepted black as one of the now recognised colours and already had one bull registered under this new ruling change. (Any other Canucks see that article?)

Used to be that when you saw a solid black animal up here, you knew it was an Angus. Couple years back at the local fair, an exhibitor had three different breeds of bulls there that he was showing. All lined up one after the other in his holding area, I had to read the placards above them to discover which breed they represented. All very long, deep, thick, well-balanced black animals and not one of them an Angus. If I remember correctly, he had the Grand Champion bull of the show, and it was an amazing Gelbvieh, as well as a Simmental and a Limousin. It's sure going to be odd when these black Chars start appearing at the bull sales.

Take care.
 

Campground Cattle

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CattleAnnie":1evwk5kl said:
On the topic of breeds turning colour, so to speak; early this winter I read a blurb in the Charolais' publication that they had accepted black as one of the now recognised colours and already had one bull registered under this new ruling change. (Any other Canucks see that article?)

Used to be that when you saw a solid black animal up here, you knew it was an Angus. Couple years back at the local fair, an exhibitor had three different breeds of bulls there that he was showing. All lined up one after the other in his holding area, I had to read the placards above them to discover which breed they represented. All very long, deep, thick, well-balanced black animals and not one of them an Angus. If I remember correctly, he had the Grand Champion bull of the show, and it was an amazing Gelbvieh, as well as a Simmental and a Limousin. It's sure going to be odd when these black Chars start appearing at the bull sales.

Take care.

I guess this is a problem I have there are no black Limos, Chars, Simms, Gelbviehs or Herefords there counterfiets. I don't understand why cattlemen don't work on improving carcass yields instead of color. Like the old saying goes if you cann't beat em join em. Get after it raise Angus d.amn fine cattle, to get the black you are going after Angus genetics.. Just quit screwing up some other fine breeds of cattle.
 

la4angus

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Certified Angus Beef Specifications

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
Agricultural Marketing Service
Livestock and Seed Program
Washington, D.C. 20250

SCHEDULE G1 – JANUARY 2004

USDA SPECIFICATION FOR CERTIFICATION OF BEEF CARCASS
QUALITY AND YIELD CHARACTERISTICS OF OFFICIALLY GRADED BEEF
FOR THE CERTIFIED ANGUS BEEF PROGRAM



This specification is for certification by an AMS agent of U.S. Prime and Choice steer and heifer beef carcasses which: a) meet the phenotypic requirements of GLA, b) show no evidence in the ribeye muscle of internal hemorrhages, c) are free of "dark cutting" characteristics, and d) meet the following set of requirements:

1) marbling score of minimum Modest or higher;
2) lean color, texture, firmness, and overall skeletal characteristics, each of which must meet the requirements for A maturity in the U.S. Prime or Choice grade;
3) a yield grade of 3.9 or numerically lower (except that carcasses evaluated after removal of all or part of the kidney, pelvic and heart fat may not have a yield grade higher than 3.5);
4) medium or fine marbling texture;
5) moderately thick or thicker muscling and tend to be moderately wide and thick in relation to their length; and,
6) no hump exceeding 2 inches in height.
___________
Items 1, 2, 3 shall be determined in accordance with the "Official United States Standards for Grades of Carcass Beef."

Item 4 shall be evaluated using the USDA-AMS-LS-SB-02 Marbling Texture card.

Item 5, muscle thickness, is evaluated by averaging the thickness of the various parts, considering not only the proportion (%) each part is of the carcass but also the general value of each part. Superior muscle thickness implies a high proportion of meat to bone and a high proportion of the weight of the carcass in the more valuable parts.

Item 6 shall be measured from a line formed by the extension of the top line (including the fat) and measuring the lean muscle (excluding the fat) perpendicular to that line in the center of the hump.

CERTIFICATION

Carcasses to be examined for compliance with the requirements of this specification shall be clearly identified when presented to the AMS agent for certification. Procedures for identification, certification, the removal of preliminary identification marks (or other methods of control) from non-qualifying carcasses, and control of certified carcasses shall be in accordance with established MGCB procedures. The AMS agent shall certify acceptable carcasses and complete the Live Animal/Carcass Certification Worksheet (Form LS-5-6).

The costs of all grading and certification services performed by the AMS agent involving examinations, supervision, official documentation, and related services shall be borne by the person, group, or plant requesting the service.

LABELING

Labeling of Certified Angus Beef’s products shall be in compliance with FSIS regulations and LS Policy SP2 (issued July 25, 2002).
 
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dun

dun

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My original post was meant in jest. Sure didn't expect it to kick off what it did.

dun
 

TheBullLady

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Trust Dun to accidentally stir it up!

It's funny sometimes how an innoculous post will bring out the worst in someone
 
A

Anonymous

I have no problem with black cattle , some of our best calves are by black limi bulls . But what I dont understand is cattleman that have an all black herd, many which are at least 75% grade angus cows , still believe- with a passion that they absouloutly must have a reg. angus bull in with them . When infact the last thing they need in with high percentage angus cows is a angus bull for calves that are going to the stockyard.. Try a black Limi or Gelbvieh , charlois , ect... get the muscle to go along with the black hide.
 
A

Anonymous

Beef,

Yep I'm sure it's the same article. Comes from Cattlenetwork. I knew I should have posted the article.

-------------------------------------------------
Angus: All It's Cut Out To Be?



By Elizabeth Weise, USA TODAY



Geneticists are unlocking the secrets of the grocery story, and what they're finding is surprising.



First it was the fish counter, where researchers recently discovered that as much as 77% of all fish sold as red snapper actually wasn't red snapper.



Now it's the meat counter.



Scientists at a Texas company creating genetic tests for individual cattle breeds tested 560 cuts of beef sold as certified Angus and found that between 8% and 50% of the cuts weren't genetically at least 50% Angus.



The Angus breed is considered particularly tasty because its meat is well marbled with fat. Producers have been capitalizing on the Angus name since the 1970s.



Viagen, of Austin, tested beef purchased in Texas, Nebraska, Kansas and Illinois in 2003 and 2004. Four different Angus-branded beef labels were tested. Using two separate tests, the company looked for more than 50% Angus lineage and less than 25% Brahman, a breed associated with increased toughness.



The four brands varied widely in the percentage of samples that fit the Angus profile: 92%, 83%, 71% and 50%. When Viagen tested a non-Angus-branded beef label as a control, they found that 47% of those samples fit the Angus profile.



The findings aren't surprising, says Davey Griffin, a meat specialist at Texas A&M University, because certified Angus beef programs are actually based on hide color, not genetics.



In fact, of more than 30 Angus beef certification programs verified by USDA, only four require actual genetic confirmation. The rest, mostly older programs, are based on visual identification and require only that the animal's hide be 51% black. That's primarily because in the past hide color was the most reliable indicator of breed.



"They don't have to show or prove any Angus background," Griffin says.



The criteria used for the Certified Angus Beef brand, one of the oldest Angus certifications, are focused on quality issues, says a spokesman for the company that oversees the program. They include marbling, degree of muscling relative to fat, and age rather than genetics, says Brent Eichar of Certified Angus Beef LLC.



"We're a breed-influenced program," Eichar says. "We talk about the Angus influence, but we nowhere make claims of it as a pure breed."



But, Eichar says, it's the criteria that determine "what's a good eating experience, whether it's 98% or 56% or 46% Angus."



Griffin agrees that such criteria give the brand its value. But eventually, as tests such as the Viagen one become more common, the actual genetics of an animal may correspond better with the breed listed on the package, he says.
 
A

Anonymous

Can you believe that someone connected with Angus cattle understands the fraud being committed on consumers? A very interesting article. Thank you for posting it where CAB fanatics can see it.
 

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