Charolais or Hereford

[Caustic Burno]

Just a quick newbie question here -

What is the benefit from the char bull? Choice grade steers, good frame, good heifers, low BW, hide color, etc?

In a crossbred system weight gain and grading on the right set of cows.

 

[wacocowboy]

If you go Hereford on Brahma you will take a good hit on your steers, so I think it would be better to just buy Tiger heifers. You could also get Charbray heifers and put them with a Char bull for big yellow calves with some ear.

Your right they will kill him on the F-1 Tiger steers the order buyers don't want the heifers either there demand and price is driven by the back to the farm buyer as replacements.
He needs to look at what the majority of cowmen in his area are running.
They are running them for a reason they do well in that environment and bring the best money. Anyone that has been doing this for a while is going to have the cow with the highest returns standing in the pasture
with the lowest inputs in a commercial operation .
Here Brangus and Braford cows are king and queen in the pasture in at least 90% .
Angus, Brangus, Char and Hereford are the bulls you see. I haven't seen a Limm in years and they were very popular at one time. I can't recall the last Simm, or Gert bull in the area or through the barn.

That is why most people I know who breed F1 Tiger heifers have contracts for the heifers or run them in special replacement sales. Then the steers they hold until they are ready to go straight to the feedlots where they don't take that hit. We had so Limm cows in the 90s and early 2000s they did ok but couldn't keep up with our crossbred cows. I don't know anyone who runs commercial Sims around here and don't know anyone who uses a Sim bull. I know a few registered Gert breeders, but what is becoming a popular cow is the Hereford x Gert F1 cross.

 

[brimmer X]

Either of he combination would be good in my eyes. I like Charolais cattle & brahman cattle, and have had both crosses with hereford. If i had good pasture, at my age, I would have Charolais cows and a hereford bull. We have had good luck with the Char cows, and have several F-1's now bred to a black bull. Never owned any Hereford cows, but I suspect good hereford cows would be harder to find and more expensive than Charolais, at least here. There are probably some bargins on them at the sale barn, which I believe the Charolais will out sell them there. The resulting F-1's can be retained or sold. That being said, I do believe the F-1 bradford to be queen of the south, a great momma cow. As Waco said, Hereford x Gert would be a good one as well. Have had some Char x Gert that were dandies also.

 

[wacocowboy]

Either of he combination would be good in my eyes. I like Charolais cattle & brahman cattle, and have had both crosses with hereford. If i had good pasture, at my age, I would have Charolais cows and a hereford bull. We have had good luck with the Char cows, and have several F-1's now bred to a black bull. Never owned any Hereford cows, but I suspect good hereford cows would be harder to find and more expensive than Charolais, at least here. There are probably some bargins on them at the sale barn, which I believe the Charolais will out sell them there. The resulting F-1's can be retained or sold. That being said, I do believe the F-1 bradford to be queen of the south, a great momma cow. As Waco said, Hereford x Gert would be a good one as well. Have had some Char x Gert that were dandies also.

I have never seen Char x Gert but I bet that is a solid cross.

 

[Chappydog]

It is a fantastic cross. Like I said before the heifers make fine cows and the bull calves do well at the sale. It's been the go to for years on our place. The only problem in my part of the country is the gert availability

 

[Toad]

I have some Char/Angus cross cows that raise some of the best calves I have every year. Bred back to an Angus bull they drop a lot of solid black calves that grow well. I haven't had much luck with Herefords although one cow is an old Hereford that weighs about 800lb and will will wean a consistent 600lb calf without creep. I've never seen anything like her.

 

[Big Cheese]

Either of he combination would be good in my eyes. I like Charolais cattle & brahman cattle, and have had both crosses with hereford. If i had good pasture, at my age, I would have Charolais cows and a hereford bull. We have had good luck with the Char cows, and have several F-1's now bred to a black bull. Never owned any Hereford cows, but I suspect good hereford cows would be harder to find and more expensive than Charolais, at least here. There are probably some bargins on them at the sale barn, which I believe the Charolais will out sell them there. The resulting F-1's can be retained or sold. That being said, I do believe the F-1 bradford to be queen of the south, a great momma cow. As Waco said, Hereford x Gert would be a good one as well. Have had some Char x Gert that were dandies also.

I have never seen Char x Gert but I bet that is a solid cross.

Going to have one pretty soon on our farm out of a red cow cow that looks to be Gert or Gert cross cow. I'll share the pic when she has it. Be a pretty close comparison at least lol.

 

[greybeard]

I've always been fond of gerts, but I'm not understanding what a gert would bring to the Char. Educate me.
I have Chars, they're great mommas, have never had to pull a calf from one, (knock on wood) make plenty of milk, never seen one standing in a pond to cool off, good gain with the calves, and mine are truly forage hustlers even when most of the grass turns brown and it's hotter than hades and high humidity here in E. Texas.
So what is the advantage to crossing them with gert?

 

[Chappydog]

I can't answer that specifically other than it just works.

 

[Big Cheese]

I wouldn't know...we just have the one and I don't even know if that's what she is...we bought her from our buyer that bought her at the barn. She raised a heck of a black calf last year so I figure she is a really good momma cow and she should raise a heck of a Charolais calf this year.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I've always been fond of gerts, but I'm not understanding what a gert would bring to the Char. Educate me.
I have Chars, they're great mommas, have never had to pull a calf from one, (knock on wood) make plenty of milk, never seen one standing in a pond to cool off, good gain with the calves, and mine are truly forage hustlers even when most of the grass turns brown and it's hotter than hades and high humidity here in E. Texas.
So what is the advantage to crossing them with gert?

A prettier cow :lol2:

 

[brimmer X]

Greybeard, I agree with you about the charolais cows. Mine have been fine animals as well. Growing up in 80's we ran a char bull on mixed cows. Dad did really well with the off spring. Even received a bonus once for having the highest selling calf on a sale day. He reminds me of that from time to time. An aunt wound up with our bull on some gert cows. Dad bought 2 of her heifers, and yes they were pretty. What did it bring to Charolais, probably everything Greybeard mentioned about Charolais, just a little better. Milk quality and quantity was probable better, hybrid vigor, and I suspect fertility. Charolais tightened up the skin, and probably improved the feet of the Gerts. A Charolais on Santa Gertrudis, might not be might first choice, but there is certainly nothing wrong the cross. My aunt benefited from the cross at the sale barn.

 

[bulldurham]

I've always been fond of gerts, but I'm not understanding what a gert would bring to the Char. Educate me.
I have Chars, they're great mommas, have never had to pull a calf from one, (knock on wood) make plenty of milk, never seen one standing in a pond to cool off, good gain with the calves, and mine are truly forage hustlers even when most of the grass turns brown and it's hotter than hades and high humidity here in E. Texas.
So what is the advantage to crossing them with gert?

Their influence would enable you to create vastly superior f1 cows and reap all the associated benefits of maternal heterosis.

Aside from the f1 heterosis (which that should be enough on its own), Gert influence should decrease frame size, improve growth rates / weaning weights, and greatly improve parasite resistance in a char herd. In general, I would suspect the Gert influence would further accomplish the goals of the early Fullblood Char breeders when they introduced the Brahman influence in order to develop the more useful and relevant purebred charolais.