Charoais cattle?

[MikeC]

The Char Assoc. has resisted bigtime pressure for years to allow Angus X Char cross bulls to be registered in a special category aside from the Char & Charbray bulls.

There are many other composite bulls being registered, so why not? I hear the Angus Assoc is resisting the lending of info (pedigree) for this.

The name "Charbray" & "Brangus" themselves are enough to show at least some hypocrisy.

Just curious
Where did the red charolais come from? Strictly from the breeding up process?

Yes. They are stamped with a big "RED FACTOR" stamp on the papers and have a different color certificate. But.... they are not always red.

After the first Char bulls were imported from the originating herd in Mexico, there was a quarantine which lasted several years that allowed no more animals. Those guys kept putting an original Char bull on the subsequent calves until they got a 15/16 - 31/32 (.94% - .97%) pure animal. After that more Chars were imported of course.

Just curious, where did the Black Sims come from?

 

[HOSS]

Crossing purebred Charolais with purebred Black Angus. I have NEVER got a black calf.
And I would not try to market crossbred bulls of any kind. Crossbred bulls are a key ingredient to "rattail".

mnmtranching, can you clarify the part about not marketing crossbred bulls of any kind? Are you specifically referring to the char x angus? Crossbred bulls have been very successful here. Specifically gelbvieh x angus (balancer) and Brahma x angus (brangus). These crossed bulls are producing some phenominal calves and brining top dollar when put on british based cows. Thanks.

 

[Aero]

are all registered Charolais supposed to be homozygous for the dilluter gene?

 

[MikeC]

Charolais

Red Factor Rules

In the fall of 1996, AICA moved ahead with establishing a registry to include red factor Charolais. This allows animals that are otherwise eligible for registration in the Purebred Registry except for color to be registered in the Red Factor Division of the Charolais Herd Book. The animals will be registered and identified by having the initials QF preceding the registration number for females and QM preceding the registration number for bulls. The following are points to remember when registering red animals:

1. Such animals shall conform to all current requirements for registration in the AICA in force at the time of application for registration.2. Such animals shall have not less the 31/32 Charolais blood.3. Progeny of such animals shall be registered only in the Red Factor Division Registry, regardless of their color.4. Such animals shall be subject to the standard parentage verification test in accordance with current AICA parentage verification procedures at the time of application for registration, under the circumstance required by these by-laws.

"Q" registered cattle do not compete in shows with cattle from the Purebred Registry.

 

[charangusman08]

Crossing purebred Charolais with purebred Black Angus. I have NEVER got a black calf.
And I would not try to market crossbred bulls of any kind. Crossbred bulls are a key ingredient to "rattail".

Hate to tell you but aren't alot of breed technically cross bred? For example beefmaster, they are 50% brahma, 25% hereford, and 25% shorthorn, and none of the are what you call "rattails" by the way what the hell is a rattail? I think a Char x angus would look better than an ugly beefmaster. Another thing, guys I wanted to bred them to red angus bulls, not black angus! I am probly just going to go with purebred charolais cattle. Thanks!!

 

[EAT BEEF]

Crossing purebred Charolais with purebred Black Angus. I have NEVER got a black calf.
And I would not try to market crossbred bulls of any kind. Crossbred bulls are a key ingredient to "rattail".

Hate to tell you but aren't alot of breed technically cross bred? For example beefmaster, they are 50% brahma, 25% hereford, and 25% shorthorn, and none of the are what you call "rattails" by the way what the be nice is a rattail? I think a Char x angus would look better than an ugly beefmaster. Another thing, guys I wanted to bred them to red angus bulls, not black angus! I am probly just going to go with purebred charolais cattle. Thanks!!

Your right about everything, everybody else is so stupid. Sorry to have botherted you with all these questions.

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

Nothing wrong with anything you have suggested. If you want to cross your Chars up or keep them registered, both was can be profitable as long as you keep informed, keep good records, and remain patient.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Crossing purebred Charolais with purebred Black Angus. I have NEVER got a black calf.
And I would not try to market crossbred bulls of any kind. Crossbred bulls are a key ingredient to "rattail".

Hate to tell you but aren't alot of breed technically cross bred? For example beefmaster, they are 50% brahma, 25% hereford, and 25% shorthorn, and none of the are what you call "rattails" by the way what the be nice is a rattail? I think a Char x angus would look better than an ugly beefmaster. Another thing, guys I wanted to bred them to red angus bulls, not black angus! I am probly just going to go with purebred charolais cattle. Thanks!!

if i can ill take a picture of the one i got. great calf but he'll take a dock because of it. but a rat tail dont have a normal tail switch. but short strait hairs on the end of the tail, the tail kinda tapers to a point.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Charolais are terminal cattle; not very fit to be momma cows compared to "real" momma cows.The calves from a terminal bull and a maternal cow should be marketed and not kept for replacement.
This means that the only traits important are.
1. calving ease as farmer needs the calves alive and the cows to be fit to be bred again.
2. muscle, an important trait for a terminal calf, either you feed it out or sell it at seven months.
3. growth, the more weight, the more money.

Now, If your bullbuyers accept some calving difficulty in the range of charolais, then another breed called blonde dacuitaine will provide both muscle and growth, whilst chars do not really put muscle in the mix, but only a lot of pounds ( percentage meat from blonde dacuitaine. 62, percentage meat fom chars,55)!

Or, if the bull buyer does not accept so big calves, there are pedmontese and limousine, wich sire modearate calves that flesh very well, but due to the smaller frame of their father, these calves will grow a little slower. However, at weaning time this difference is not so evident.

And really, what is the reason to breed chars other than that they look big and classy on the front pasture?

can't get this one rollin', if they are only terminal why aint they extinct by now?

 

[dun]

Crossing purebred Charolais with purebred Black Angus. I have NEVER got a black calf.
And I would not try to market crossbred bulls of any kind. Crossbred bulls are a key ingredient to "rattail".

Hate to tell you but aren't alot of breed technically cross bred? For example beefmaster, they are 50% brahma, 25% hereford, and 25% shorthorn, and none of the are what you call "rattails" by the way what the be nice is a rattail? I think a Char x angus would look better than an ugly beefmaster. Another thing, guys I wanted to bred them to red angus bulls, not black angus! I am probly just going to go with purebred charolais cattle. Thanks!!

The polite term is American of composit.
A rat tail reults when a black Angus and an animal with a diluter gene are crtossed. Doesn;t happen every time, but it does happen. You can find tons of information about them by searching here for "rat tail"

 

[Australian Cattleman]

I really like Brahman crossed over Charolais. It gives you an animal that you can cross any breed over. Pure Charolais take too much to keep in condition here in our area. They need more grass than lots of other breeds.

 

[charangusman08]

Your right about everything, everybody else is so stupid. Sorry to have botherted you with all these questions.[/quote]
I apologize EAT BEEF, I wasn't really mad, I just thought my idea was good and was a little upset after some people saying it wasnt a good idea. I might try it, but not sell the bulls(maybe), I asked you people because I new u were cattle producers and I respect your opinions, so I want to apologize to everyone and thank you for all your comments and advice. Thank You!

 

[mnmtranching]

I think cross breeding cattle is great. But you take a cross bred bull [continental/British] put him with a mixed herd [more cross bred British/Continental] You know? your going to have some "rattail" calves and take a beating at the sale barn. And they simply won't work as breeding stock.

 

[charangusman08]

I think cross breeding cattle is great. But you take a cross bred bull [continental/British] put him with a mixed herd [more cross bred British/Continental] You know? your going to have some "rattail" calves and take a beating at the sale barn. And they simply won't work as breeding stock.

Yeah I am just going to raise and sell registered charolais cattle. Thanks

 

[CowpokeJ]

Is there any Red Angus around there anywhere?

 

[DOC HARRIS]

What I want to do is start a registered Charolais cattle herd of up to about 40 to 50 registered charolais cows. While I am making my way up to those numbers, I want to keep the heifer calves, keep a few bull calves like 10 or so, and try to sell them as registered yearling charolais bulls. After I build my herd, I want to have some charolais x angus calves and try to sell the bull calves as yearling bulls also (note that only 50% will be what you guys call smokies and the rest all charolais) to see how they sell. I really think people in my area will like them. Thats my main goal, may sound dumb to you guys, but I beileive in it.

In a way it kind of is a dumb idea in my mind. However, if you can make it work and enjoy doing it and make money I say go for it.

I don't mean to be defensive if I sound like it, but why does it sound dumb, my family says it is kinda lame too, why? Thanks. :|

charangusman08-

You have asked a question which, on the face of it, is "open-ended!" Which means - the hundreds of thousands of bits of "Researched Information" by Universities and Foundations (Nobel Foundation being the one that I can think of at the moment) would take years to reiterate and relate to you.

Let me cut through some of the rhetoric which would be presented here if all of us on this Forum were to question and delve into the many and various aspects ofwhy your idea sounds dumb (perhaps - "not too advisable" would sound more acceptable than DUMB).


Questions:
How many years have you been operating your beef interprise as a Registered (Purebred) operation?
How many years have you been raising Charolais as a primary source of seedstock?
What are the THREE most important characteristics (Phenotypic and Genotypic) in your opinion which both Charolais AND Angus seedstock should possess?
How many years do you anticipate it taking you to "...work your way up..." to 40 or 50 Registered Charolais cows?

Now we arrive at the ..."not too advisable..." segment of your operation. The Genetics involved in the Crossbreeding of Charolais and Angus (AFTER you have spent 12 or 15 years developing an acceptable enough genetic and phenotypic seedstock base for your Charolais Foundation Breeding Herd in justifying your crossbreeding protocols), your "Multiple Trait Selection" choices with the Angus Breed now becomes of PRIME IMPORTANCE!! Why?? Because you must BALANCE your carefully chosen Charlais traits with the equally carefully chosen Angus traits to AVOID a CRASHING imbalance of Functional Traits which combine with the crossbreeding protocols anytime that two different Beef types (Terminal and Maternal) are utilized indiscriminately. The "Functional Traits" - skeletal structure (sound feet and legs, shoulder, spine), mammary structure (tight udders and small teats), disposition, femininity, body capacity, fleshing ability, muscle expression, and degree of fatness - all enter into the BALANCE of combining together different appearances of the same characteristics. AND - the ONE CRITICAL TRAIT in this mix-master plan of yours which has not been mentioned as yet is - - FERTILITY OF BOTH THE MALE AND FEMALE PROGENY!

Playing "Russian Roulette" with the Genetics and Phenotypic Characteristics in this scenario is a complicated venture! In my opinion, your entire premise is FLAWED - both financially and pragmatically. Unless you are independently wealthy and have many years of experience in Management and Marketing supporting your efforts, I agree with your family! It is MORE than "kinda' lame!"

...and I have answered your question as to "Why?"

DOC HARRIS

 

[charangusman08]

All right, for the third time I have decided to only raise and sell purebred charolais cattle, I am over the idea on charolais x angus breeding. I think it will take me about 6 or 7 years to build up to 50 registered cows if I start with 4 heifers. I am only 18 years old and my father has been raising beef cattle my whole life. We have about 60 commercial red and black angus cows and 25 feeder cattle. I like red angus, but want to try another breed like charolais which I really like. Since I am young, I think I could have one hell of a registered charolais herd around 100 registered cows when I am 30 years old.

 

[Frankie]

All right, for the third time I have decided to only raise and sell purebred charolais cattle, I am over the idea on charolais x angus breeding. I think it will take me about 6 or 7 years to build up to 50 registered cows if I start with 4 heifers. I am only 18 years old and my father has been raising beef cattle my whole life. We have about 60 commercial red and black angus cows and 25 feeder cattle. I like red angus, but want to try another breed like charolais which I really like. Since I am young, I think I could have one be nice of a registered charolais herd around 100 registered cows when I am 30 years old.

You're not likely to build up to 50 registered cows from four heifers in six or seven years. If half your calf crop is heifers each year, every one lives and is a breeder, you'll have about 35 females to breed. But at least you have a plan. Go for it.

 

[Busterz]

Don't let these guys be too discouraging. If you like Charolais cattle then go for it. They are one of the more popular breeds in the country and many people use the bulls for cross-breeding. Somebody has to produce those pure bred bulls. If no one else in your area has any you may be in a very good position to market charolais bulls. The feed yards around here are full of smokey calves.

Also, starting small could be an advantage in your case. It would probably make sense to use AI on such a small number which could allow you to get better quality sires than if you were having to use bulls. Its a cheaper way to get access to better genetics and you can change faster if you need to. Get the best females you can find and/or afford then do your research on bulls you can use for AI.

Another idea is to keep AIing but get an Angus bull when you need a clean-up bull. Then you would have some smokey colored calves to market and you wouldn't be tempted to keep the heifers around because they wouldn't be purebred. Just an idea.

 

[usernametaken]

I really like Brahman crossed over Charolais. It gives you an animal that you can cross any breed over. Pure Charolais take too much to keep in condition here in our area. They need more grass than lots of other breeds.

Thanks for confirming what I was thinking - they eat a lot. There are a lot of Charolais here and they are pretty big . People like them but I've never heard anyone call them an easy keeper. That might be why you are not seeing them in Wisconsin too much. Here they can have pasture most of the year, but your winters are going to make the feeding tougher.