Caustic and Missing the Point

[RainMan]

Just curious what the actual costs cost for growing grass VS buying hay. I'm not a grass farmer and I wont pretend to be, but I see a whole lot of equipment being used buy them. Cost per bail? I know there are a lot of factors on the buying side, but someone should know the answer to growing grass.

 

[Wewild]

Just curious what the actual costs cost for growing grass VS buying hay. I'm not a grass farmer and I wont pretend to be, but I see a whole lot of equipment being used buy them. Cost per bail? I know there are a lot of factors on the buying side, but someone should know the answer to growing grass.

You seemed like you were being ugly.

What does you cost per bale cost? Bale would be the proper spelling.

In case you forgot.

CB,

You must have grass growing out your _ _ _ , the way you talk about it. Buy the time I paid for all the equipment needed to be a grass farmer I would be broke. Put a pencil to that one and give me some advice, based on your actual costs per year for grass vs buying similar quality hay. And try doing it without some of those fancy quotes like "that dog wont hunt boy". Whats up with all that redneck crap anyway. Must be a Texas thing. CW

 

[Caustic Burno]

Just curious what the actual costs cost for growing grass VS buying hay. I'm not a grass farmer and I wont pretend to be, but I see a whole lot of equipment being used buy them. Cost per bail? I know there are a lot of factors on the buying side, but someone should know the answer to growing grass.

If you had paid attention you would have read I have stated many time cost 18 to 20 dollars to bale my own.
Now what does hay production have to do with pasture management. Down here it it is two different things we run cows in our pastures and grow our hay in our hay fields to different operations. It's easy to grow hay. Pastures are a different subject.
You just have a burr up your butt this is going to be fun you trying to get in a cattle discussion.
Lets play.
Just for fun how many bales did you put up this year, I rolled a little over 400.

 

[D.R. Cattle]

Let's all change our tampons and move on.

 

[Wewild]

Let's all change our tampons and move on.

? I wouldn't want my wife reading your post.

 

[bgm]

Just curious what the actual costs cost for growing grass VS buying hay. I'm not a grass farmer and I wont pretend to be, but I see a whole lot of equipment being used buy them. Cost per bail? I know there are a lot of factors on the buying side, but someone should know the answer to growing grass.

Do you seed your pastures? Do you fertilize? Do you do to take care of the pasture? If you answer yes to these, you are a grass farmer. Just because you don't have lots of equipment to harvest it, that doesn't mean it isn't being harvested, it just means the cows are doing it. The second you think your not a grass farmer, let your pastures go to be nice and see how much money you make.

As far as my opinion of CB, can't say I always agree totally with him, but he's usually on the mark. Can't say I agree with how he says it lots of times, but I'd much rather someone be brutally upfront with me than sneek around and back bite. To totally disregard anyone with that much expierence would be foolhardy.

Take the good with the bad, life's too short to sweat the small stuff.

 

[jp]

I was just sittin here readin all this great info, thinkin how this is a very good thread full of info without the BS and someone had to jump in and start. jp

 

[Gate Opener]

CB,

And try doing it without some of those fancy quotes like "that dog wont hunt boy". Whats up with all that redneck crap anyway. Must be a Texas thing. CW

Bring those fancy quotes on CB I like them. I think it is an art that not too many people can do.

Also, thank you for the info.

 

[txag]

http://www.agmanager.info/livestock/bud ... mf2504.pdf

Because many factors affect feeder cattle markets, feeder cattle price determination and discovery are complex processes. Feeder cattle are an input into a production process; therefore, feeder cattle demand is influenced by all factors that affect future anticipated demand for fed cattle, as well as expected feeder cattle backgrounding and/or feeding costs. In addition, as feeder cattle weight varies, the relative importance of expected fed cattle market price and expected input costs changes. Thus, feeder cattle demand determinants vary in importance over time as the cattle grow. A formidable task facing potential cattle buyers and sellers is how feeder cattle market prices are likely to change as the form of the product (i.e., feeder cattle weight) and expected market prices (input and output) change. Typically buyers pay a higher price per pound for lightweight feeder cattle relative to heavier feeder cattle because the cost of adding weight (i.e., cost of gain) is generally less than the value of additional weight. This implies that the negative relationship between weight and price, referred to as the price slide, reflects buyer's expected cost of gain relative to expected value of gain. Thus, feeder cattle price slides will vary as both feed and fed cattle selling prices vary.

"Several important determinants need to be considered when analyzing feeder cattle price-weight relationships. The two most economically important price-weight slide determinants are expected fed cattle price and corn price. Price-weight slides increase notably when corn prices decline (i.e., the premium for lightweight calves increases as feed prices decrease). Likewise, when expected fed cattle prices increase, priceweight slides increase. In addition to varying with corn and fed cattle prices, price slides vary with feeder cattle weight and also differ between steers and heifers, at least at heavier weights. This information can help producers who forward contract feeder cattle, backgrounders who make decisions regarding feeding calves to varying weights, and producers who purchase feeder cattle."

 

[RainMan]

CB,

Thanks for dodging my question. Typical of your answers. I would have expected a detailed itemization of costs such as; seed, fertilizer, herbicides, equipment, land and so on. These costs would equal your cost per bale or ? With this information I, the hobby rancher, could get an idea what it takes to produce quality grass, such as yours. Surely a Cattle Rancher of your stature has this all in hand, but you are obviously unwilling to give the information out. Guess a hobby rancher such as myself can't learn anything from you on this one.

To answer your question on the number of bales I put up, the answer is none. Don't own a piece of hay equipment. Guess you got me on that one.
CW

 

[aplusmnt]

ALACOWMan never said my way is better for anyone.
I am not stuck in a rut of thats the way it has always been done.
If the pencil comes out sharper on a fall, spring season versus year around , thats were I will head.
I never see it being better in the spring as the market is flooded with the guys that have always done it this way calfs.

It is still about grass management to produce the most beef at the best price.

Have you did any figuring or research on the switching to fall borns vs Spring born? Would there be any other factors besides the point that the Cows would eat more Hay due to being wet through the winter.

If a person sells their calves at 4 months or so then mostly you would just have to look at hay consumption for the Cows since the calves are getting most nutrients through them.

Starts me thinking that is it possible then you could run a few more cows with fall born. If a person buys their hay and the haying months are primarily the ones when calf is on mother. So in the spring the Cows will now be eating less because they are dry, so now you might be able to stock a few more on same acreage and just buy more hay in winter.

Would be curious how it would all pencil out.

I wonder how other things would factor in on the switch. Say in hardiness of calves you would have Hard winter vs Hot fly weather. Calf mortality rate, is more lost due to a hard winter or a hot Summer? Cows could be the same since they are living year round. But could a person use different terminal bulls since now the calves need to be hardy for winter versus hardy in the hot.

Lots of things to think about on the switch. Kind of interesting, I am sure the bigger guys and many experienced ones have already did these figures before. But the thoughts are all new to me.

 

[Dave]

Rainman,

Being a grass farmer doesn't entail a lot of equipment. In fact it can be done with some cows and a hot wire, nothing else. It is about managing your grass and there are a lot of ways to do that.

I don't always agree with CB but I see that most of our disagreements are related to regional differences. I think he tends, as we all do, to see things being the same every where as they are in his home area. It is a big country there is a lot of differences. People are different. Some are good mechanics and can get by with used equipment. Others are mechanically challenged and just can't make the old worn stuff work for them.

Dave

 

[RainMan]

Thanks for the reply Dave,

Just seems he pounds the little guys with his costs bs until it's running out his boots. I know grass farmers and what they have to put into high yield fields and I'm sure they know exactly what all the costs are for each bale that comes off a field and how many head they can run on field right next to it.

I asked a simple question related to the costs associated with upgrading my current fields with better yielding grass or staying with the same and purchasing hay. Maybe I didn't word the question right. If not, my bad.

CW

 

[aplusmnt]

Thanks for the reply Dave,

Just seems he pounds the little guys with his costs bs until it's running out his boots. I know grass farmers and what they have to put into high yield fields and I'm sure they know exactly what all the costs are for each bale that comes off a field and how many head they can run on field right next to it.

I asked a simple question related to the costs associated with upgrading my current fields with better yielding grass or staying with the same and purchasing hay. Maybe I didn't word the question right. If not, my bad.

CW

Not sure about Caustic but I know I would not be wanting to gather out all my records and break down and itemized list of everything that factored into the $18.00 per roll of hay. I think it is pretty well accepted by most that cost is somewhere in this area for most anyone. We do not need to know that $50.00 went toward buying a new tire for the Baler to get the idea.

 

[Cowdirt]

If we sold them now we could buy 1 bred cow or a pair. I really like both of these cows but not sure of the economics of it.[/quote]

Gateopener,
Considering that you know and like the two cows, I would think long and hard before making the swap that you are considering. Using my best judgment when buying replacements I still wind up taking some back to the salebarn.

 

[jj216]

Im not trying to be ugly or a smart a$$ and Im not doubting yalls knowledge,I learn from this board.But how do yall big time ranchers have 12 hours a day to post on this board.Im small and I dont Have enough hours in the day to get done what I need to.By the way Im eating lunch right now.Im sure Ill get bashed for this question by some but Im honestly curious.What does yalls day consist of that you can stay in front of the computer?I guess in a way Im Jealous.

 

[RainMan]

aplusmnt,

Thanks. Well, I guess that answers my question. We generalize all the inputs for producing grass, but we have it down to the nats ass on what the costs are to maintain a cow. I would have thought costs would flutuate somewhat from year to year based of lets say the cost of "X". "X" would have been what I was trying to learn something on. Guess I better move on before "I" turn into a "GURU".
CW

Merry Christmas CB

 

[aplusmnt]

aplusmnt,

Thanks. Well, I guess that answers my question. We generalize all the inputs for producing grass, but we have it down to the nats ass on what the costs are to maintain a cow. I would have thought costs would flutuate somewhat from year to year based of lets say the cost of "X". "X" would have been what I was trying to learn something on. Guess I better move on before "I" turn into a "GURU".
CW

Merry Christmas CB

I am sure a good Hay and grass producer can show them expenses. I am sure CB can. But even when we talk cost of raising cattle no one is really listing that they spent $35.00 on syringes for Vaccination in a given year. Most talk general expenses.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Im not trying to be ugly or a smart a$$ and Im not doubting yalls knowledge,I learn from this board.But how do yall big time ranchers have 12 hours a day to post on this board.Im small and I dont Have enough hours in the day to get done what I need to.By the way Im eating lunch right now.Im sure Ill get bashed for this question by some but Im honestly curious.What does yalls day consist of that you can stay in front of the computer?I guess in a way Im Jealous.

What are you doing all day this time of year? Hay is up doesn't take long to put out either. Pastures are to muddy to put a tractor in just tear up more ground than what you are trying to get done. You shouldn't be fixing fence, unless a storm put a tree on one. Winter grasses have been planted since Oct.
There is only so much maintainece you can do to the tractors etc.
This is the most slack time around here I love it get to hunt.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Im not trying to be ugly or a smart a$$ and Im not doubting yalls knowledge,I learn from this board.But how do yall big time ranchers have 12 hours a day to post on this board.Im small and I dont Have enough hours in the day to get done what I need to.By the way Im eating lunch right now.Im sure Ill get bashed for this question by some but Im honestly curious.What does yalls day consist of that you can stay in front of the computer?I guess in a way Im Jealous.

What are you doing all day this time of year? Hay is up doesn't take long to put out either. Pastures are to muddy to put a tractor in just tear up more ground than what you are trying to get done. You shouldn't be fixing fence, unless a storm put a tree on one. Winter grasses have been planted since Oct.
There is only so much maintainece you can do to the tractors etc.
This is the most slack time around here I love it get to hunt.

I have some mesquites to dig up between now and March. Right now they are running gas pipe lines everywhere and I don't want to get in their way. I need to fix a brush hog that has a sheared key. I have some irrigation pipe to repair (weld) before March as well, just in case I need it. Other than that, everything is done.