Caught on Trail Camera in KY

[msplmtneer]

:welcome: Rick

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Rick Wagner, don't be a one hit wonder.

 

[greybeard]

Now I am not naive enough to believe there is absolutely no mountain lions in East Texas.
The terrain is not conducive to the style of hunting the cat prefers. It just seems that all the hours I have spent in these woods with cat hounds we never treed one. All we every treed or bayed was bobcats. The feeding territory on a mountain lion is huge.
With that said I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see an African lion on tiger that one of these hillbillies raised and got loose or turned loose.

Glad to hear you aren't a skeptic. I've seen one myself, probably not more than 40-50 FEET away--summer 2006. In late August that year, it started raining one night and hardly stopped until summer 2007, but from May '06 til August it was dry as a bone around here--you couldn't drive on any of the roadways on or off my property without leaving a big cloud of dust behind. I was living in a little house up on the front of the property that summer, and had just quit for the day, late in the evening. 100' west of that house is National forest, 250' North is a paved FM road and more forest. I had one dog at that time, a young black lab, and he was laying at my feet at a little table in the yard while I was cooling down--not a speck of a breeze blowing. I looked up at the roadway and saw a mountain lion sauntering down the roadway between me and the Nat'l Forest walking south. I just eased down and grabbed the collar of the lab till the cat got by, and then went in a got my rifle. I walked out on the road, looked down it and didn't see it, then saw it come up from a little pond and continue on South and back into the forest. It just looked too majestic for me to shoot for no reason.

My nearest neighbor, has a permit to keep mountain lions, is inspected by the state, and up until last year, kept an older male and 2-3 females in his cage--a big 8' tall chain link, with concrete floor and chainlink on top. The game wardens used to bring him injured cats or cats they had taken from abusive owners or people who had no permit for them. When his cats were in heat, it was not unusual for the wild ones to come calling as well, and he has several gamecam pictures of them milling around the cages. He's like most people from the old families here--hunted his whole life and knows cats inside and out.
I don't hunt much anymore, but when I was a teenager I did a lot.
A cougar is not like a bobcat-bobcat will go to tree pretty quick, but a cougar will just run--for miles. They're long and lean and built for it--and smart. It's rare for dogs to ever tree one here. We used to cat hunt out at Luling, bobcats specifically, and the dogs would run till they treed one while we'd wait till they did, but occassionally, they'd hit a cougar and you better be ready to move when they did. By "move" I mean run or the cat and the dogs would be out of hearing before you'd be able to stay with them. We had one run out of hearing one night after midnight a long way from our trucks, so we built a little fire and layed down. Right before daylight, the cat and the pack of Walkers and black and tans came running right back on us and right thru the middle of our little camp. Scared the crap out of us. We never got a shot at or even sight of a cougar till that night.

Lots of documentation of black or dark charcoal colored cougars (pumas). American Indians called them devil cats.
http://messybeast.com/genetics/mutant-pumas.html


My neighbor also told me something I found interesting. Here in the pine forests, cougars hunt and move differently than they do out west where it's more open. Here, unless they are after a female in heat, you are most likely to run across a big cat on a night with the worst weather conditions. They're preferred prey are young deer and deer hole up in those kinds of conditions. Cougars have learned this over the decades and decades here and the deer and fawns are easier for them to find holed up in the brush--they can sneak right up on them instead of running them down.

Jaglion--results of male black colored jaguar and African lioness:

It's sibling born at the same time:

Both as newborns, along with momma. You have to look close in the straw to see the dark colored one.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Go look in last weeks Peddler some nut was wanting to barter work
for deer meat to feed his tiger over around Kirbyville.
No tellin what some of these hillbillies have back in these woods.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

I bet the hill country has a higher density of a few select African species than most of Africa. People can complain all they want about high fence hunting, and it's not my thing, but it's saved more than one species from the brink of going the way of the dodo.


As far as cats go, I've seen 3 in my life. All were in the 90s right around the explosion of the deer population here, one right after the other but many miles apart.

Image they were thinned as deer hunting became more popular.


I've always wondered why the wildlife department has such strict laws and harsh fines for an animal that doesn't exist.

 

[greybeard]

In Texas, cougar/mountain lion/puma are not protected or on endangered list. Listed as a varmint and can be killed. No limit either.
https://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/outd ... er-species

Black Bears and Mountain Lions
Black bears are protected and cannot be hunted or killed. Mountain lions are not protected and can be harvested at any time. Please report black bear sightings or mortalities, and mountain lion sightings, harvests, or mortalities to (512) 389-4505.

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/clevelan ... 3bde8.html

They are solitary animals and live in remote country and are seldom seen by humans.
A few years back, a TPWD game warden here in Liberty County told me he had received reports of cougars and in one instance, he said he found the carcass of a deer up in the forks of a tree. He surmised that the carcass was carried up in the tree by a cougar.
Possibly the sightings of black panthers actually were dark colored cougars.
I saw my first cougar back in the early 1980s. Robert McWhorter, engineer at radio station KJCH here in Cleveland and I were on the way to Coldspring to set up some equipment for a broadcast of the San Jacinto County Fair. About five miles south of Double Lake, we both saw this brown cougar cross the highway in front of us at a distance of about a quarter-mile.
In succeeding years in the same area, I saw a cougar on two other occasions along the same highway.

As the crow flies, I live about 10 miles sw of Double Lake.

 

[Caustic Burno]

What amazes me about all these sightings is none every get hit by a car.
None every get shot by the thousands of hunters that claim to see one every season.
On top of that it seems that none of them can get a verified photo by a TWPD Biologist
from the literally millions of game cameras in these woods.
If a picture was taken for every claimed sighting around here the SD cards would have nothing but
cats on them.
I routinely talk with the lead biologist for the area according to him they are extremely rare here.
The last one killed in the in the area is suspected of escaping from captivity.

IMO a lot of grown men see the Boogie Man in the Big Thicket.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwd ... _03_11.pdf

 

[greybeard]

A man can observe a lot by being observant.

There's lots of wood folk that have never seen a cat, but many of those have been seen by cats.

 

[TexasBred]

So were saber tooth tigers and woolly mammoths once.

I saw one of those saber tooths one night when I was in college.

Was that the one I saw you wrestling with?? Might have been a saber tooth but the undies were "leopard". :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

 

[Alan]

When I was a young strapping man Cougars had not been invented yet. :frowns: :frowns: :frowns:

 

[Commercialfarmer]

Alan, they existed, but most still had a little shame left in them back then that they didn't advertise on the biggest billboard in town. At least that is how I'm going to remember it.

Here's you a hit by car story CB, https://www.wildlifedepartment.com/ysof/Spring12.pdf I imagine that not just their low numbers, but maybe their instincts leads to not many highway kills. I bet most run right away or stay hunkered down when they hear a car coming, unlike a white tail which just waits for the car to get closer before running into it's path. I saw one in the car, but it ran across the road while I was a long way out. Saw it two days in a row at dusk and then never again.


The first one I saw, I was hunting with a cousin and neither wanted to say what we thought we were seeing. It took less effort to jump to the top of an 8 to 10 ft pile of dozed trees than my dog takes to get into the cab of the truck. That left an impression on both of us.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

In Texas, cougar/mountain lion/puma are not protected or on endangered list. Listed as a varmint and can be killed. No limit either.
https://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/outd ... er-species

Black Bears and Mountain Lions
Black bears are protected and cannot be hunted or killed. Mountain lions are not protected and can be harvested at any time. Please report black bear sightings or mortalities, and mountain lion sightings, harvests, or mortalities to (512) 389-4505.

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/clevelan ... 3bde8.html

They are solitary animals and live in remote country and are seldom seen by humans.
A few years back, a TPWD game warden here in Liberty County told me he had received reports of cougars and in one instance, he said he found the carcass of a deer up in the forks of a tree. He surmised that the carcass was carried up in the tree by a cougar.
Possibly the sightings of black panthers actually were dark colored cougars.
I saw my first cougar back in the early 1980s. Robert McWhorter, engineer at radio station KJCH here in Cleveland and I were on the way to Coldspring to set up some equipment for a broadcast of the San Jacinto County Fair. About five miles south of Double Lake, we both saw this brown cougar cross the highway in front of us at a distance of about a quarter-mile.
In succeeding years in the same area, I saw a cougar on two other occasions along the same highway.

As the crow flies, I live about 10 miles sw of Double Lake.

GB, I remembered how protected they were that it was illegal to kill one if it was attacking you, livestock or anything, but I guess some law maker got some reason about them and it changed 7 years ago.

It is illegal to hunt mountain lions in Oklahoma, and it once was illegal to shoot the animal for any reason. In 2007, state law was changed where it became legal to kill a mountain lion if a person feared his or her life was in danger from a cat or that livestock was is in danger.

The law requires the cougar's carcass be taken to the Wildlife Department for examination, but no one has ever submitted a dead mountain lion to state wildlife officials in the seven years since the law changed.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Alan, they existed, but most still had a little shame left in them back then that they didn't advertise on the biggest billboard in town. At least that is how I'm going to remember it.

Here's you a hit by car story CB, https://www.wildlifedepartment.com/ysof/Spring12.pdf I imagine that not just their low numbers, but maybe their instincts leads to not many highway kills. I bet most run right away or stay hunkered down when they hear a car coming, unlike a white tail which just waits for the car to get closer before running into it's path. I saw one in the car, but it ran across the road while I was a long way out. Saw it two days in a row at dusk and then never again.


The first one I saw, I was hunting with a cousin and neither wanted to say what we thought we were seeing. It took less effort to jump to the top of an 8 to 10 ft pile of dozed trees than my dog takes to get into the cab of the truck. That left an impression on both of us.

Counties where a mortality in Texas has occurred.
Not a monster sighting.
This is over twenty years.
There is not a cat behind every other tree as some want to believe.
As you can see from the map East Texas is completely over run where the hunter density
is probably higher than any other region of the state.
The one confirmed kill in Sabine County of the far east of the state is suspected of escaping captivity.
https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwd ... 0_0232.pdf

I see a real mountain lion three to four times a week at the feed store full body mount on the wall.
JSC when you go there this week check out all the mounts that are on loan.
There is some impressive deer in there.

 

[greybeard]

I think I posted that same link earlier in this thread CB. I never said there was a cat behind every tree, nor are there coons up every tree or a fresh shot deer hanging from every tree, but they are here and have been for a long time.
Maybe you just make so much racket trompin thru the woods they hear you comin or they smell your french cologne aftershave 1/2 mile away, but I suspect the real reason so few people see them is in direct relation to the number killed but not reported. S.S.S.
My county (San Jacinto) is on that mortality map.

Just because a county isn't on that map doesn't mean much either. I've yet to hear of any animal who, upon reaching a county line, stopped and turned back around ("Aw, shucks, I can't travel any farther than this point. The experts agree that I don't live there."

 

[TexasBred]

When I was a young strapping man Cougars had not been invented yet. :frowns: :frowns: :frowns:

We've only had the "Black Panthers" down here since the '60's. :mrgreen:

 

[TexasBred]

I bet the hill country has a higher density of a few select African species than most of Africa. People can complain all they want about high fence hunting, and it's not my thing, but it's saved more than one species from the brink of going the way of the dodo.


As far as cats go, I've seen 3 in my life. All were in the 90s right around the explosion of the deer population here, one right after the other but many miles apart.

Image they were thinned as deer hunting became more popular.


I've always wondered why the wildlife department has such strict laws and harsh fines for an animal that doesn't exist.

County next to us has over a hundred high fence ranches in it. Has some excellent hunting from bucks escaping from them.....and you never know what might come through the woods....had a big "Red Stag" on my back fence a couple years ago...big as an elk. Friend swears a kangaroo came though the woods where he was hunting. AT one time there was a "Safari" type place with lots of exotic animals on it. Even had giraffes etc. Hopefully the kept all them inside. Not unusual to see axis deer or fallow deer.

 

[LRTX1]

There was a jack wagon around here that had a whole mess of capybaras escape in the mid to late nineties. They made it a good half dozen years or so before you quit hearing of them being killed.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I think I posted that same link earlier in this thread CB. I never said there was a cat behind every tree, nor are there coons up every tree or a fresh shot deer hanging from every tree, but they are here and have been for a long time.
Maybe you just make so much racket trompin thru the woods they hear you comin or they smell your french cologne aftershave 1/2 mile away, but I suspect the real reason so few people see them is in direct relation to the number killed but not reported. S.S.S.
My county (San Jacinto) is on that mortality map.

Just because a county isn't on that map doesn't mean much either. I've yet to hear of any animal who, upon reaching a county line, stopped and turned back around ("Aw, shucks, I can't travel any farther than this point. The experts agree that I don't live there."

Along with the Ghost Lights of Saratoga the Boogieman is real.
Again with all the night vision scopes and hog hunting no one ever shoots one .
The really strange feat is that people are able to in west and south Texas.
Only the East Texas variety is bullet proof and magical enough that its photo's won't appear on an SD card.
Black Bear in the forks of the river have been seen and documented for years that is 13,000 acres of uninhabited nothing
just like God made it. No cat verified sightings.

 

[greybeard]

Why don't you come right out and say it CB, that everyone (including me) that says they have seen one in the wild is a liar and that you won't believe they are in East Texas until the great and wonderful Caustic Burno has seen one.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Why don't you come right out and say it CB, that everyone (including me) that says they have seen one in the wild is a liar and that you won't believe they are in East Texas until the great and wonderful Caustic Burno has seen one.

Sightings and proof of one are two different things.
Lot of UFO sightings as well.
I do believe that the majority of the millions that see one are scared to death to be in the woods after dark.
I guess you were just one of the lucky ones that see one every year in East Texas
that are able to elude the TPWD.
Just seems an animal with a higher than 25% mortality rate that a dead one would show up.

http://www.balancedecology.org/Mountain ... Texas.html

158 cats were taken out from 1983 to 94 from cars to hunters most by hunters and landowners in the western part of the state. It appears we have lost that ability with the population explosion.
http://www.seafwa.org/resource/dynamic/ ... 45-551.pdf