Cattle breeds as it relates to the Food Industries

[Bullheaded]

I am a Food Service representative and I have a question for anyhone who can help. My company sells Black Angus Beef. Lately, I have been running into alot of Restaurants using Hereford Beef and they are buying it alot cheapier. They say that Angus Beef has been so diluted in the industry, that it is not the same anymore. My question is, What do I tell my customers about buying Angus over Hereford. Is Angus truly better? If so why? What are the main differences? Help me sell Angus?
Let me add this to my message, it seems I am getting alot of replies that think we didn't get training from the company. That is not the case here! I don't want to know my companies opinions on why Black Angus is better than other breeds because we sell Black Angus. I want outside opinions on the subject. Never take one person's say on a subject.

 

[Frankie]

I am a Food Service representative and I have a question for anyhone who can help. My company sells Black Angus Beef. Lately, I have been running into alot of Restaurants using Hereford Beef and they are buying it alot cheapier. They say that Angus Beef has been so diluted in the industry, that it is not the same anymore. My question is, What do I tell my customers about buying Angus over Hereford. Is Angus truly better? If so why? What are the main differences? Help me sell Angus?

Is "Black Angus Beef" a brand name? What specifications are required for beef to be labeled "Black Angus Beef"? I'll put the link below to all the USDA certified branded beef programs. Each one has certain specifications before their beef can be branded.


http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/certprog/certbeef.htm

 

[backhoeboogie]

This is going to open a can of worms for sure!

I have eaten beef from practically every breed there is. Plus the stuff we bought at stores that we didn't know where it came from. Good beef is good beef. Bad beef is bad beef. All breeds can produce both. There is a lot to be said of how an animal is finished on top of that.

As far as price goes, angus are amongst the cheapest selling cattle at sale barns around here. Last week they finally came up a bit at the sale I sat through as more folks were bidding on them. Mostly it is the climate here (heat) that keeps the prices down as they don't adapt and cannot sustain adequate milk production in the heat. They will pant like dogs by day and forage by night. I understand it is the opposite in northern states.

Murray Grey's are said to exceed angus in desireable beef traits. So are angus folks really about the best beef or is it just a marketing ploy?

 

[MikeC]

Some other forum conversation about "CAB":

http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18943

 

[Frankie]

Some other forum conversation about "CAB":

http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18943

An entire forum dedicated to roadfood. :lol:

 

[VanC]

I am a Food Service representative and I have a question for anyhone who can help. My company sells Black Angus Beef. Lately, I have been running into alot of Restaurants using Hereford Beef and they are buying it alot cheapier. They say that Angus Beef has been so diluted in the industry, that it is not the same anymore. My question is, What do I tell my customers about buying Angus over Hereford. Is Angus truly better? If so why? What are the main differences? Help me sell Angus?

You will get lots of different opinions on this as everyone has different tastes in beef. They also have different preferences in breeds and most are fiercely loyal to the breeds they raise. My opinion is that Angus beef is good but no better than many others, and that the Angus breed is good but, again, no better than many others. The perception right now is that Angus is better because the Angus Association has been way ahead of everyone else in marketing their product for many years. Perhaps they can help you.

Also, not trying to be a smart-alec here, but I would hope the company you work for could give you the information you need. They are selling a product, they should know something about it, IMO.

 

[Sir Loin]

BH,
Re:

Lately, I have been running into alot of Restaurants using Hereford Beef and they are buying it alot cheapier.

To that I would say "well, as you know, you only get what you pay for". Then I would ask them "how do you know you are getting Hereford beef"?

Re:

They say that Angus Beef has been so diluted in the industry, that it is not the same anymore

What do they mean by that? An angus is an angus no mater how you cut it.

Re:

My question is, What do I tell my customers about buying Angus over Hereford. Is Angus truly better? If so why? What are the main differences? Help me sell Angus?

Sure I will help you, but first where do I send my bill after you know everything I know?
(Once a class clown, always a class clown)

BH,
first you will need to understand the history of both breeds.
In a nut shell, Herefords were originally bred as a duel purpose cow. That was to produce both meat and milk and they are more closely related to dairy cows then are Angus,
Where as Angus were only bred as a meat producer.
And the fact is dairy cows always produce the poorer quality meats.

Then you will need to familiarize yourself with words like:
RES (ribeye shape)
SS (stress score)
Tend (tenderness)
IMF (marbling)
REA/CWT (ribeyeArea per hundred pounds)
The best place to get the info I think you are looking for can be found by googling: cattle, ultrasound and meat, USDA.
Hope this helps.
SL
PS: Did the company you represent not give you any training?

 

[VanC]

In a nut shell, Herefords were originally bred as a duel purpose cow. That was to produce both meat and milk and they are more closely related to dairy cows then are Angus

I don't think this is correct. Where did you get this information?

http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle/hereford/

 

[Sir Loin]

VanC,

Re:

Herefords were originally bred as a duel purpose cow.
Where did you get this information?

From my grandfather and father and logic dictates it, as the Hereford has still retained their high milk quality. (butter fat)
And it is that butter fat in the milk that allows Hereford to make claim to the excellent weight gains in their calves.

In my grandfather's time, if you owned a cow, you owned a Hereford because she gave a fair amount of milk with plenty of butter fat to make butter, she was hardy yet dossal so grandma could milk her and she would provide you with a good calf a year for meat. And most people bred them mainly for their milk while at the same time ranchers were breeding them mainly for the beef industry because of their high quality milk.

My father was a dairy farmer all his life and he had several Herefords in his herd and said they milked out just as good as his Guernseys and Jerseys, although they were mainly kept for their calves to be eaten or to be sold as beef.

If you want more of a scientific answer, I will have to look for it. But I don't know of anyone who has done a genealogical study on Herefords.
SL

 

[Frankie]

VanC,

Re:

Herefords were originally bred as a duel purpose cow.
Where did you get this information?

From my grandfather and father and logic dictates it, as the Hereford has still retained their high milk quality. (butter fat)
And it is that butter fat in the milk that allows Hereford to make claim to the excellent weight gains in their calves.

In my grandfather's time, if you owned a cow, you owned a Hereford because she gave a fair amount of milk with plenty of butter fat to make butter, she was hardy yet dossal so grandma could milk her and she would provide you with a good calf a year for meat. And most people bred them mainly for their milk while at the same time ranchers were breeding them mainly for the beef industry because of their high quality milk.

My father was a dairy farmer all his life and he had several Herefords in his herd and said they milked out just as good as his Guernseys and Jerseys, although they were mainly kept for their calves to be eaten or to be sold as beef.

If you want more of a scientific answer, I will have to look for it. But I don't know of anyone who has done a genealogical study on Herefords.
SL

Just because you don't know anyone that's done a genealogical study on Herefords doesn't mean one hasn't been done. From VanC's link:

"The Hereford breed was founded some two and one-half centuries ago as a product of necessity. Thrifty and enterprising farmers near Hereford in the County of Herefordshire, England, were determined to produce beef for the expanding food market created by Britain's industrial revolution. To succeed in Herefordshire, these early-day cattlemen realized they must have cattle which could efficiently convert their native grass to beef and do it at a profit. "

 

[Tc]

choice is choice .dont matter what breed it comes from. most cattle slautered are cross breeds anyway.><>>>>>tc

 

[Sir Loin]

Frankie,
Re:

Just because you don't know anyone that's done a genealogical study on Herefords doesn't mean one hasn't been done.

That's not a genealogical study, it's a write up on the Hereford breed by "The American Hereford Association".

Re:

Thrifty and enterprising farmers near Hereford in the County of Herefordshire, England, were determined to produce beef for the expanding food market created by Britain's industrial revolution.

First, Yes I read the link.
Second, if "Thrifty and enterprising farmers" had cattle in Herefordshire, England and became "determined to produce beef" what were these cattle producing prior to producing beef? Hummm? Could they have been beasts of burden and/or milk producers?

Now here is an interesting find.
Black Angus

They are good natured in comparison to several breeds but are more aggressive than the breeds such as the Hereford. Angus are used as beef cattle and are not used for milk intended for human consumption .

Now go to: Hereford Cattle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hereford_%28cattle%29

And tell me why it does not say herefords " are used as beef cattle and are not used for milk intended for human consumption" as it does for Angus.
SL

 

[Sir Loin]

Major dairy breeds include Holstein-Friesian, Jersey, Guernsey, Brown Swiss, Ayrshire, and Milking Shorthorn.

Please note "shorthorn".
Source: http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0810900.html

Shorthorn cattle
Shorthorn cattle, breed of beef cattle developed from the native cattle of the Tees valley in NE England; formerly called Durham cattle. Systematic breeding of Shorthorns began in the latter part of the 18th cent. First imported to the United States in 1783, they are now found in every part of the country. Shorthorns are medium-sized with compact, low-set, rectangular bodies. In color they vary from red to white or any combination of these colors, with a predominance of roan. Because of their strength and good temperament, Shorthorns were occasionally used as draft animals. The Milking Shorthorn, a dairy breed developed in England from the Shorthorn, is appreciated for its adaptability to different climates, its efficient use of feed, and the superior protein-to-fat ratio of its milk.

Now, is a Hereford a shorthorn?
Google: Hereford shorthorn for the answer.
SL

 

[VanC]

Second, if "Thrifty and enterprising farmers" had cattle in Herefordshire, England and became "determined to produce beef" what were these cattle producing prior to producing beef? Hummm? Could they have been beasts of burden and/or milk producers?

That's easy. This was the beginning of the Hereford breed by all accounts, and was founded "to produce beef." Whatever they were before, they weren't Herefords, therefore it's not relavant. They were founded as a beef breed, and were never considered dual-purpose as you stated earlier. The fact that some people may have milked them from time to time doesn't make them "more closely related to dairy cows" as you stated earlier. Heck, thousands of Holstein steers are fed and slaughtered each year. That doesn't make Holsteins closely related to beef cattle. Or does it?

We have quite a few Hereford breeders on this forum. Maybe one or two will come along and shed some light on this. If I'm proven wrong, I will freely and humbly admit it. As for now, I'm off to bed. Good night, all.

 

[Sir Loin]

VanC,
Re:

This was the beginning of the Hereford breed by all accounts, and was founded "to produce beef." Whatever they were before, they weren't Herefords,

That is true, back then they were known as milking "shorthorns" and you cant get any closer then that.

Good night all.
SL

 

[Tc]

herfords are one of the worst milkers of the beef breeds.......txlonghorn.....s-highland....herford....pherford....all rank a 4 on a scale from 1 too 5...5 being the worst.this is from the book BEEF CATTLE SCIENCE..by M E Ensminger...6th edition>>>>>>>>>>>>tc

 

[MikeC]

Some other forum conversation about "CAB":

http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18943

An entire forum dedicated to roadfood. :lol:

My bad. I thought this was a forum of "Roadkill" food, which my last foray into the "CAB" world was like. :shock:

 

[backhoeboogie]

This must be the newest joke :lol2:

No it is not a joke. Not a bit funny. When you see one of them panting in misery, it is quite sad. The only angus I have left calve in the fall for this very reason.

 

[Ryder]

Now, is a Hereford a shorthorn?
Google: Hereford shorthorn for the answer.
SL

I googled Hereford shorthorn and what comes up is referring to crossing the two breeds for heterosis.

The two breeds are not the same. Hereford is a beef breed. It has been used not only on small farms but in the western ranges of immense size. If the Hereford was high enough in milk production to be a dairy breed, the udder problems would make it unsuiatable as a range cow.

 

[MikeC]

Some other forum conversation about "CAB":

http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18943

An entire forum dedicated to roadfood. :lol:

My bad. I thought this was a forum of "Roadkill" food, which my last foray into the "CAB" world was like. :shock:

BhamBabe, aka Mike C, (the "prolly" gave you away) doesn't admit that the likes of the fast food industry never claimed the beef they were selling was designated as "Prime". They merely claimed that it was CAB.

What the heck are you talking about? ;-)