Calving 2024

[lithuanian farmer]

All three heifers weighed yesterday.
Lim and sim 101,4lbs, charolais 108lbs. All were born very easily and fast. Actually seen two being born in less than a couple min from toes to a full calf.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

@Travlr All the bulls pictured except probably the Simmental are double muscled.
USDA grading system:
"Double muscling is a genetic condition that results in an animal having more muscle mass than usual. According to the USDA, "Double-muscled" animals are included in the Inferior grade. Although such animals have a superior amount of muscle, they are graded U.S. Inferior because of their inability to produce carcasses with enough marbling to grade Choice"

So, if we use double muscled bulls, you would be docked selling them as feeders and as finished animals. If you fed out and sold sides of beef, you would not get the marbling needed/wanted in a carcass.
YOU think they are great looking - "I" think they are grotesque/freekie looking. But, @lithuanian farmer makes good money on the breeding program using the heavy muscled bulls in Lithuania

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Added - I agree there are a LOT of bulls in US that are way too light muscled - everyone chasing marbling and easy calving. People need to quit looking at papers and LOOK at their cattle.

 

[Silver]

There European consumer likes lean meat, and DM cattle provide that. Dressing percentages of 75%, a smaller 5th quarter and superior feed efficiency appear to make a good business case. They may look rather foreign to us in the Americas but we may be breeding them in the future. The customer gets what the customer wants and those who won't deliver are destined to fail.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

There European consumer likes lean meat, and DM cattle provide that. Dressing percentages of 75%, a smaller 5th quarter and superior feed efficiency appear to make a good business case. They may look rather foreign to us in the Americas but we may be breeding them in the future. The customer gets what the customer wants and those who won't deliver are destined to fail.

I hope I am not around by that time. I would be hard pressed to breed to something I can't look at!
I LOVE heavy muscled cattle. That's what I breed for - but DM is a bit over the top for my liking. @lithuanian farmer has very impressive cattle, and should be proud of all of them and doesn't have any problem with CE. Just like @lithuanian farmer, my heavy muscled cattle I have can handle the heavier muscled calves. I don't think USA will start using them on a commercial basis until USDA changes their standards. Too much money lost in the process UNLESS you will feed out all your own offspring and sell MEAT. Even at that, you would have to have a NITCH market for lean meat.

 

[Silver]

you would have to have a NITCH market for lean meat.

My point was that people and markets evolve. Lean meat may well not be a NICHE market in the Americas in the future.

 

[TCRanch]

There European consumer likes lean meat, and DM cattle provide that. Dressing percentages of 75%, a smaller 5th quarter and superior feed efficiency appear to make a good business case. They may look rather foreign to us in the Americas but we may be breeding them in the future. The customer gets what the customer wants and those who won't deliver are destined to fail.

Is that why they're thinner than the general population in the US?

 

[mwj]

The choice-select spread usually indicates what the market wants.

 

[Travlr]

@Travlr All the bulls pictured except probably the Simmental are double muscled.
USDA grading system:
"Double muscling is a genetic condition that results in an animal having more muscle mass than usual. According to the USDA, "Double-muscled" animals are included in the Inferior grade. Although such animals have a superior amount of muscle, they are graded U.S. Inferior because of their inability to produce carcasses with enough marbling to grade Choice"

So, if we use double muscled bulls, you would be docked selling them as feeders and as finished animals. If you fed out and sold sides of beef, you would not get the marbling needed/wanted in a carcass.
YOU think they are great looking - "I" think they are grotesque/freekie looking. But, @lithuanian farmer makes good money on the breeding program using the heavy muscled bulls in Lithuania

Double muscled or not we used to have bulls in the States that looked like bulls and had more muscle. In fact your show bull looked more like the ones I remember than any others I've seen posted on these fora. He actually looks like a decent bull.

And I'm not so sure they would qualify as double muscled. They are certainly not as muscled up as the Belgian Blues and Limousin that are truly double muscled.

And as far as the system used in the United States for grading carcasses... we are behind the times and stuck in concrete, it seems.

Maybe @lithuanian farmer could educate us about how their system works and how we could learn something.

 

[GoWyo]

Double muscled or not we used to have bulls in the States that looked like bulls and had more muscle. In fact your show bull looked more like the ones I remember than any others I've seen posted on these fora. He actually looks like a decent bull.

And I'm not so sure they would qualify as double muscled. They are certainly not as muscled up as the Belgian Blues and Limousin that are truly double muscled.

And as far as the system used in the United States for grading carcasses... we are behind the times and stuck in concrete, it seems.

Maybe @lithuanian farmer could educate us about how their system works and how we could learn something.

She provided that information a couple months ago in response to a question I had. Have to find that thread. But the gist was that they do not do much with steaks, so marbling is not a criteria that pays under the European system. She gets paid a premium to produce the kind of cattle she does and we get paid premiums to produce a different type of beef animal. It's all good.

I range calve in March in sometimes bad conditions and want calves that are born without problems and up nursing in 15 minutes. My bull customers want the same thing. That is usually going to be a 75-90 lb calf from a 1300-1500 lb cow. Heifer calves should wean off around 550-600, steers 575-625 and bulls 650-750 at 7 months on our summer pasture conditions. That seems to be the sweet spot given our pasture conditions, a goal of grazing 9-10 months of the year and feeding 1 ton of hay per cow.

Lithuanian Farmer has a whole different environment and market system that is interesting and I am glad she posts on here because I enjoy seeing how her cattle work for her with the different market incentives she has.

 

[lithuanian farmer]

Calf no 4 was born yesterday. Another heifer, 288 days gestation, sired by Dutch improved red and white bull, out of limxangus x cow. Calved unassisted out in the cold. Temperature currently is at 8°F, waiting for -6°F in two days. A similar size to the other three heifers.



Of course, brought her into the shed.
The sire:


He is truly a double muscled bull.
Would need to look up the myostatin status of the charolais bull, to see if he is DM. Lim has one copy of NT myostatin. Simmental of course isn't DM.

 

[lithuanian farmer]

As for double muscled animals, it is popular is certain countries. Double muscled is only when it has one of two copies of any type of myostatin. Some types are considered "profit", like F94L. No calving difficulties related to it. Other types, like nt821, Q204X can and will cause bigger birth weights, more muscled calves at birth. A well muscled animal is not always double muscled, as there are many lims, charolais, etc, not carrying double muscles genes. It got quite popular to test animals in Europe to know their myostatin status.
I would think that some of our cows do have one or another type of myostatin, mostly heterozygous, but quite any don't.

 

[Travlr]

As for double muscled animals, it is popular is certain countries. Double muscled is only when it has one of two copies of any type of myostatin. Some types are considered "profit", like F94L. No calving difficulties related to it. Other types, like nt821, Q204X can and will cause bigger birth weights, more muscled calves at birth. A well muscled animal is not always double muscled, as there are many lims, charolais, etc, not carrying double muscles genes. It got quite popular to test animals in Europe to know their myostatin status.
I would think that some of our cows do have one or another type of myostatin, mostly heterozygous, but quite any don't.

I sure loved my double muscled calves in the eighties. I got them out of Lim cows by Belgian Blue bulls and they were fancy. Always wished I had trained a couple in yoke to walk in parades and maybe show up at the equine pulling contests.

 

[ClinchValley86]

Yalls bulls are ridiculous...in a good way. Cows are right there with them. I always enjoy your pics.

 

[tcolvin]

Once again a new thread No newborns at the moment. At least I think, as will need to do an evening check soon. It's going to be an interesting season. Some new bulls used, some new crosses tried.
Currently have three cows ready to pop any time. Limx in calf to lim at 286th day, pure lim incalf to lim at 284th day and limx incalf to charolais at 283rd day. All seem very close and not sure, which will pop first. Gonna to know real soon. Then will have five due around the first week of January.

One will be a very interesting case. She is due on 25th of January. She is a fairly big cow. And she looks huge So there are a couple options: twins ( or a whole litter), lots of fluids, or a half weaned calf.
View attachment 38541

Looks like you have a very Happy New 2024 herd increase on its way! Congratulations ahead of time. Hope things go well for you.

 

[coachg]

Looks like you are being blessed with heifers this season !

 

[lithuanian farmer]

Pure lim is still playing with us... 297th day and still looks to be having a couple days left...

Not sure who will calve next at this point. Well, at least one from four for now.

Having abit of snow luckily. Weather forecast shows -13°F in two days.


The last vrb heifer. One thing for sure, they are very lively and vigorous calves. The only con of the breed is that they are small in size, so needs to be very careful not to use them on smaller cows. They are heavy though. This one's dam is tall and plain, so should be a good cross.

 

[lithuanian farmer]

Weighed the last heifer today- 99lbs.

 

[lithuanian farmer]

Guess who decided to calve when it got real cold...


The sire:

JT - FR8710311268 | SYNETICS

www.evolution-xy.international

Of course, a bull calf. 298 days gestation. Calved with a slight pull with ropes. Not sure if it was needed, but with such long gestation and her previous loss, didn't want to risk.

Cold weather brought another newborn. This time a pure texel ram lamb.

 

[MurraysMutts]

Guess who decided to calve when it got real cold...
View attachment 39190

The sire:

JT - FR8710311268 | SYNETICS

www.evolution-xy.international

Of course, a bull calf. 298 days gestation. Calved with a slight pull with ropes. Not sure if it was needed, but with such long gestation and her previous loss, didn't want to risk.

Cold weather brought another newborn. This time a pure texel ram lamb.
View attachment 39195

Is she the one that was looking like twins??

D'oh! Just looked. That's the blue one. When she coming along?

Edit again
January 25th
Will she hold that long?