Crazy calving season

[gizmom]

I agree that high nitrate levels in the grass and hay might be the issue. I assume the pastures are mainly Bahia. Were there any millet or grasses known for tendency to accumulate nitrates? Drought and irregular rain can cause nitrates to jump. And seems like different cows in the same pasture can be affected differently.

Yes pastures are Bahia different varieties but all bahia.

 

[gizmom]

Article from Angus bulletin

Great info thanks for sharing

 

[Silver]

Any possibility of ergot there?

 

[J Hoy]

This has not been a great calving season. Started with a bull calf that was 6 weeks early he made it but bw of 38 pounds is not our goal. 2nd calf stillborn heifer Another 6 weeks early…..crap then a first calf heifer with a 39# bull calf what the heck so you see the trend we ended up with 15 calves that were 6weeks to a month early. We are almost finished calving now just a dozen or so to go. One calf weighed 23 pounds folks I'm not making this crap up I had a friend tell me I better get a different bull lol I had to tell him there were 8 different bulls represented with these little calves, many leading AI sires. Cows are in great shape we have been in severe drought and heat has been brutal. One thing I know about raising cattle is once you think you have it figured out they will sure show you that you don't!

Early birth, low birth weight and stillborn are symptoms of exposure to toxins, especially the top three teratogenic pesticides, imidacloprid, glyphosate and chlorothalonil. Did you check any of the calves, especially the stillborn calves for underbite? Imidacloprid alone caused such symptoms in white-tailed deer in a study published in Nature in 2019. However, in Florida, many pesticides are used on crops that can be damaging to developing young. Is there a farm directly upwind of you that might have been using a new extremely toxic pesticide during the calves' fetal development?

 

[sunnyblueskies]

Multiple calves, multiple bulls that are proven. There is something going on with the environment. My initial thought would be the forage/diet. I'd start with a good hard look at what is growing in your pastures. Overly mature fescue, black cherry trees, pine trees......and a host of other possible contributors. Get your extension agent to your pasture or an agent familiar with pasture forages and vegetation that can be toxic and have them conduct an inventory.

Feed is what I was thinking too. Or environment, which would come back to heat.

Here is a completely stupid idea or question from me. Here in the north, or where ever you can have a real cold winter, we at times deal with some larger birthweight calves if it was an exceptional cold season. The pros can probably explain it better, but it's about the cows taking in more feed due to the cold which also gives more nutrients for the calf to grow more. Something down that line.

I wonder if there is something like that in reverse if the cows are in extreme heat during the last trimester.

 

[Ebenezer]

Dr. Bonsma said that the bull calves will be smaller than the heifer calves when the cattle (including the sires) do not fit the environment. So in a hot summer and heavier bodied cattle with NW USA type, it could set up the inability for the cows to lose core body heat overnight. I think that you have shown pictures of cattle in the ponds before. In any tussle - the environment wins.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Feed is what I was thinking too. Or environment, which would come back to heat.

Here is a completely stupid idea or question from me. Here in the north, or where ever you can have a real cold winter, we at times deal with some larger birthweight calves if it was an exceptional cold season. The pros can probably explain it better, but it's about the cows taking in more feed due to the cold which also gives more nutrients for the calf to grow more. Something down that line.

I wonder if there is something like that in reverse if the cows are in extreme heat during the last trimester.

Heat can work in that fashion as it can/does result in a decrease in intake. However, it is more likely a contributing and compounding factor often to a seperate main cause that itself has become a problem due to the heat.

 

[gizmom]

Dr. Bonsma said that the bull calves will be smaller than the heifer calves when the cattle (including the sires) do not fit the environment. So in a hot summer and heavier bodied cattle with NW USA type, it could set up the inability for the cows to lose core body heat overnight. I think that you have shown pictures of cattle in the ponds before. In any tussle - the environment wins.

i Don't think the cattle were able to lose core body heat, I have always heard that temps had to get below 70 at night to allow cattle to cool down. This year the temps would be in the 80's all night so no cool down then climb back up into the 100's during the day then repeat.

 

[gizmom]

Early birth, low birth weight and stillborn are symptoms of exposure to toxins, especially the top three teratogenic pesticides, imidacloprid, glyphosate and chlorothalonil. Did you check any of the calves, especially the stillborn calves for underbite? Imidacloprid alone caused such symptoms in white-tailed deer in a study published in Nature in 2019. However, in Florida, many pesticides are used on crops that can be damaging to developing young. Is there a farm directly upwind of you that might have been using a new extremely toxic pesticide during the calves' fetal development?

Not to my knowledge.

 

[gizmom]

Dr. Bonsma said that the bull calves will be smaller than the heifer calves when the cattle (including the sires) do not fit the environment. So in a hot summer and heavier bodied cattle with NW USA type, it could set up the inability for the cows to lose core body heat overnight. I think that you have shown pictures of cattle in the ponds before. In any tussle - the environment wins.

I went back and checked and nope it's heifers and bulls both no trend showing it to be bulls lighter than heifers.

 

[coachg]

Have a neighbor that has lost a preemie after feeding it for 2-3 months. Had a still born calf ,; another 5 day old calf to die . Had to pull a calf from a heifer that took us half the day to catch and another with constricted tendons in its front legs . Both those calves lived and are doing good . Only has 10 cows so its been tough.

 

[firemen122]

Not sure how much rainfall you received out of hurricane Idalia, but in our area salt damage on crops was fairly prevalent. I would think this could cause stress in Bahia grass and subsequent high nitrate possibility.

 

[gizmom]

Not sure how much rainfall you received out of hurricane Idalia, but in our area salt damage on crops was fairly prevalent. I would think this could cause stress in Bahia grass and subsequent high nitrate possibility.

Oralia did not come close to us we didn't even get rain from that one. I can see if it had that it could be a factor.

 

[jscunn]

debbie,
we had 2 really early calved 9/10 and 9/11. 40 and 42 lbs out of 5 yr old cows. they were natural service but the earliest they could calf is 9/25 if they bred on first day. also have obe cow that slipped i think. our vet called her due in october.. no signs yet..

i put it all on the hottest, driest August i can ever remember. our calves have been smaller than last year on average we are 7lb lighter on the group.. (not including twins/premies).

Weird year for sure i just wish we could be done with calving already..

 

[Lucky_P]

My initial thought and principal rule-out was nitrates in forages or water.
In my experience, Neospora-induced abortions are typically mid-term, long before the fetus is viable.
In 40 years of veterinary practice and diagnostic pathology, I saw exactly zero cases of fungal abortion... I've seen photos, and would recognize it if it passed in front of me.

Ergonovine/ergovaline from fescue endophyte causes peripheral vasoconstriction, shunting more blood to internal organs, not less. That's part of why we see increased heat stress/summer slump in cattle on high-endophyte fescue... they are less able to dissipate heat, because there is less circulation to extremities.
Simlarly, cold weather also causes peripheral vasoconstriction, in this case to preserve body heat... resulting in shunting of more blood to internal organs, including the uterus, resulting in enhanced fetal nutrition and larger birthweights (though not necessarily an increase in dystocia).
Conversely, if you were in a long stretch of really high temperatures, one could postulate that peripheral vasodilation - to help dissipate body heat - might have the effect of decreasing birth weight... though I don't know that 23 pounds is in that realm!

The Mare Reproductive Loss Syndrome deal in 2001 was associated with Eastern Tent Caterpillars, and it appears that the offending party was the 'setae', the little hairs on the caterpillars. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20081071/

 

[gizmom]

My initial thought and principal rule-out was nitrates in forages or water.
In my experience, Neospora-induced abortions are typically mid-term, long before the fetus is viable.
In 40 years of veterinary practice and diagnostic pathology, I saw exactly zero cases of fungal abortion... I've seen photos, and would recognize it if it passed in front of me.

Ergonovine/ergovaline from fescue endophyte causes peripheral vasoconstriction, shunting more blood to internal organs, not less. That's part of why we see increased heat stress/summer slump in cattle on high-endophyte fescue... they are less able to dissipate heat, because there is less circulation to extremities.
Simlarly, cold weather also causes peripheral vasoconstriction, in this case to preserve body heat... resulting in shunting of more blood to internal organs, including the uterus, resulting in enhanced fetal nutrition and larger birthweights (though not necessarily an increase in dystocia).
Conversely, if you were in a long stretch of really high temperatures, one could postulate that peripheral vasodilation - to help dissipate body heat - might have the effect of decreasing birth weight... though I don't know that 23 pounds is in that realm!

The Mare Reproductive Loss Syndrome deal in 2001 was associated with Eastern Tent Caterpillars, and it appears that the offending party was the 'setae', the little hairs on the caterpillars. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20081071/

 

[gizmom]

if You take the 23# calf out of the mix are You saying that the heat/humidity could be the issue. I am going to have The 23# calf tested im thinking some kind of birth defect going on with that one. As always I appreciate your input and expertis.