Calf is weak and had purple gums

[4luvofcattle]

We had a calf born two nights ago at 11 at night. At 1 am I went out to check to see if it nursed. It was too weak to even stand. So I gave it one quart of colostrum. Checked it again at 4 in the morning and he was still too weak to stand. It took all my strength to get it to stand. He held his head low and had very little energy. Gave it a shot of BoSe (vitamin/selenium). Penicillin and calf vaccine. By noon the next day. Calf was too weak to stand and nurse. So I tubed him with a quart if milk. Checked his mouth and his gums are a dark purple instead of pink. Called vet and then gave him a shot of dexamethazone ( was able to stand and nurse by 8 that next night). Even bucked his head a little bit. Continued to bottle feed him every 6 hours about a pint and a half to a quart. Milked out momma instead of using milk replacer. Today, back to being weak. Any ideas? Vet is stumped. He said it might be a circulation issue, but not for sure. Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[torogmc81]

what breed/mix? birth weight? assisted, hard labor, first time calver?

Thought the end of the paragraph was going to say he didn't make it. To be continued I guess. good luck to ya

 

[4luvofcattle]

Maine/ angus cross and she is a second calf heifer. Calf was about 90 pounds and was an easy pull. She could have probably had it herself, but we had to move her to the barn because of bad weather and worried she wouldn't continue to calve after we moved her. Only in hard labor about an hour and a half before we moved her to the barn. Never had this problem before.

 

[milkmaid]

Calf's temp? Color of the calf?

A heart murmur caused by a hole in the heart wall between ventricles (Ventricular Septal Defect aka VSD) would be one of my top differentials. Nothing you can do if that's the case, but a quick trip to the vet's for a physical exam would rule it in/out, and prevent you from sinking more time/money into this calf if that's the problem.

 

[Nesikep]

milkmaid.. not arguing your point at all, it sounds rather possible, just wondering how dex would help that?

 

[Son of Butch]

milkmaid.. not arguing your point at all, it sounds rather possible, just wondering how dex would help that?

Dex is an anti-inflammatory. It's given to people when putting in a pacemaker to prevent inflammation of the heart muscle.
It can also act to reduce inflammation caused by the bacteria killed by the antibiotics.
But that would only give short term relief, as it can do nothing for a congenital disorder.
A heart birth defect sounds logical.
I know it if it was my calf, it would eat up a good amount of feed and run up a bill before it decided to up and die.
Someone else's calf will probably out grow it.

 

[milkmaid]

Not sure the dex would do much for a VSD - but often animals with one congenital defect will have a second, and the dex may have positively affected that.

Not saying the calf does or does not have a heart defect, but it'd be a differential in my mind and I'd likely have it checked out before sinking too much money or effort into the calf. VSD excluded, the calf may just have a slow start and actually be normal.

And OP - assuming this is a black calf, you did compare the calf's gum color with the gums on another black animal to make sure it isn't normal for a black animal? Might sound like an absurd question but coloring does make a difference...

 

[4luvofcattle]

Calf does not have a temp. I did compare the gums to another black calf as a comparison (good question, never hurts to make sure).

So here is the update, calf was born Thursday night (3-20) at about 11 pm. This morning (Sunday 3-23) calf was able get himself up to stand by himself. My husband tried to give the calf a bottle, but wasn't interested. The calf did, however, drink water from the tub we have in there for the cow. At noon the calf (Apollo) was able to nurse about 1 quart down from the bottle. Tonight at 6, the Apollo actually called for momma. So we tried to get him to nurse off of momma and it worked (well as best as it could haltering a cow that has never been haltered and tying her to the fence). He even "wagged" his tail while nursing. But with a rainbow, there has to be rain. So I noticed tonight that the calf's poop is really dark reddish, brown. Not like coccidiosis, way more bloody-looking than that (I don't think anyway.) If it is, it is the worse case I have ever seen.

Just a thought, I don't know, but could the calf be toxic from something? Not for sure what. I cows are given their pre-breeding shots and are calf hood vaccinated. We vaccinate the calves as soon as they are born with a 7-way (2mL), multimin shot(1mL), BoSe(3mL) and Excede (2 mL). The cows are in a dry lot with corn stalks for bedding and fresh water from a small tank (to keep it fresh). The cows are given a protein lick tub and have free choice mineral. They are fed fresh feed from the feed wagon that consists of ground up cornstalks, ground up alfalfa and corn silage (dry year, so not much corn in the silage).

We also had one calf born blind. That calf doesn't have the white eyes or the blue stars in the eyes that you normally see with blind calves. His eyes look normal. But he is definitely blind (bumps into fences and other calves) but is getting better. Don't think the eyes are, he is just adapting.

The vet is 60 miles away, so we will take the calf when we have to take something else because it would save on cost. If we can get the calf to nurse, then we don't need to spend too time with it.

Any ideas, I am willing to listen. I will continue to keep posting.

 

[Nesikep]

I'm not much for ideas.. but could the poop still have been meconium?... I would have a hard time believing that coccidiosis would propagate that fast, it usually has a 3 week incubation period... Try keeping him nursing on momma, it's good for both of them.. if they lose the instinct it's a real PITA to get them going on the real thing again...

It sounds like the cattle are well taken care of, and unless your mineral mix is drastically off for your area, you should be good there.

 

[skeeter swatter]

The bloody stool, and your description of how much its been drinking sound like the calf is starving. I think the blood is the stomach lining sloughing off. That means it can't digest milk.
Feed it electrolytes only for 2-3 days then mix with milk for another day or 2.
Are the cows vaccinated for BVD, PI3 etc.?

good luck

 

[Dega Moo]

Calf does not have a temp. I did compare the gums to another black calf as a comparison (good question, never hurts to make sure).

So here is the update, calf was born Thursday night (3-20) at about 11 pm. This morning (Sunday 3-23) calf was able get himself up to stand by himself. My husband tried to give the calf a bottle, but wasn't interested. The calf did, however, drink water from the tub we have in there for the cow. At noon the calf (Apollo) was able to nurse about 1 quart down from the bottle. Tonight at 6, the Apollo actually called for momma. So we tried to get him to nurse off of momma and it worked (well as best as it could haltering a cow that has never been haltered and tying her to the fence). He even "wagged" his tail while nursing. But with a rainbow, there has to be rain. So I noticed tonight that the calf's poop is really dark reddish, brown. Not like coccidiosis, way more bloody-looking than that (I don't think anyway.) If it is, it is the worse case I have ever seen.

Just a thought, I don't know, but could the calf be toxic from something? Not for sure what. I cows are given their pre-breeding shots and are calf hood vaccinated. We vaccinate the calves as soon as they are born with a 7-way (2mL), multimin shot(1mL), BoSe(3mL) and Excede (2 mL). The cows are in a dry lot with corn stalks for bedding and fresh water from a small tank (to keep it fresh). The cows are given a protein lick tub and have free choice mineral. They are fed fresh feed from the feed wagon that consists of ground up cornstalks, ground up alfalfa and corn silage (dry year, so not much corn in the silage).

We also had one calf born blind. That calf doesn't have the white eyes or the blue stars in the eyes that you normally see with blind calves. His eyes look normal. But he is definitely blind (bumps into fences and other calves) but is getting better. Don't think the eyes are, he is just adapting.

The vet is 60 miles away, so we will take the calf when we have to take something else because it would save on cost. If we can get the calf to nurse, then we don't need to spend too time with it.

Any ideas, I am willing to listen. I will continue to keep posting.

Maybe off the wall here but you're looking for ideas .... have you had your silage and cornstalks checked for nitrate levels? You mentioned few kernels in the silage because of a dry year and that's a risk factor for high, even toxic levels of nitrates. In those dry and barren years nitrates accumulate in highest concentrations in the lowest 12 to 15 inches of the stalk. If the silage was cut at a couple of inches off the ground and you didn't form good, solid and normal stalks with ears, you could very well be feeding silage or stalks with marginally dangerous levels of nitrate. One of the symptoms of high nitrate levels in cattle is a dark brownish color of blood and it could be there's blood in the feces and so on ..... Mature cows will 'acclimate' to above normal levels but there is a level that will kill cattle. Even if the calf isn't eating the silage or corn stalks I wonder if it would have absorbed nitrates through the cow prior to birth or even after birth nursing. I don't really know if either could be the case but my interest was piqued when you mentioned silage, a dry year and dark brownish colored blood.

Does anyone know if this is even plausible?

I would think your vet could check a stool sample for blood in the stool and it should be simple enough for the vet to check a blood pull for nitrates. You can always have a sample of your silage checked for nitrate levels as well. Northwest Iowa should have plenty of nearby labs that could test your silage and stalks. You could get stool samples and a vial of blood to your vet without hauling the calf to the vet.

Best of luck!

 

[4luvofcattle]

Ok, I am a science/math teacher by day, so I brought home a stethoscope today and milkmaid, you were right. Heart murmur. I could hear the swooshing as the heart beat. So based on this, I am guessing the calf has very little probability of making it, correct? We have a twin and will try and skin the sick calf and put it on twin. Any other suggestions?

 

[milkmaid]

Can you access this page?

http://depts.washington.edu/physdx/heart/demo.html

Listen to normal, then VSD. Compare with the calf's right side. Does the murmur sound like a VSD?

Sometimes a murmur in a young calf is normal (a PDA may/may not be present for a week or so). Let's not shoot the calf if it's still in the normal realm.

Lucky will probably have thoughts on the matter but to the best of my understanding - depends how large the defect is as to survival potential. Usually not though.

 

[4luvofcattle]

I just can't seem to give in yet. milkmaid. I checked the heart sounds with the website you gave and it most resembles the AS "sound". I went back out with my husband to give Apollo some electrolytes and when we were done, he walked around the pen and gave a half buck.He nurses on momma on his own, but I don't think he is strong enough to get enough on his own, so we supplement. He is holding his head higher than before, but I do notice he Labors breathing a little and his heart rate is slight elevated than the other calf I compared him too. And he has "bug eyes" with the whites being blood shot. I would have a vet check him out before we do anything drastic. Just don't want to take the big gooseneck trailer and 9 mile to the gallon truck 60 miles to see the vet and pay a vet visit on top quite yet.

 

[cag]

We had one this year with the labored breathing ... Vet gave a few shots of antiobotics and a shot of Bose . Everyday got a little better. It's had to guess what is going on for sure. Hang in there and do all you can. Good luck