Calf color

[Dave]

We often hear here of various colored cows referred to as a box of crayons. Buy these old one and done cows a person does have a good look at the cows but no idea what bull bred them. This year my calves are a real box of crayons. I have black cows with black calves and red cows with red calves. No surprise there. But I also have black cows with red calves and red cows with black calves. Four brockle faced Hereford cross cows with 2 black white face calves, a red brockle faced calf, and one with a straight Hereford colored calf. The two grey cows both have orange calves. There is a black Hereford cow with a solid black calf. A black cow with a grey calf. A blue roan cow with a black brockle face calf. An old style orange and white spotted simme cow with a black whitefaced calf. A yellow cow with a white calf. I am probably missing some of them. I have 14 cows yet to calf. They are 2 brockle faced Hereford cross cows, 2 brockle faced black white faced cows, 5 solid red cows, and 5 solid black cows. Who knows what color combinations are yet to come? It is like opening a Christmas present every day around here.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

Sounds like a lot of recessive genes on the top side!

 

[Travlr]

We often hear here of various colored cows referred to as a box of crayons. Buy these old one and done cows a person does have a good look at the cows but no idea what bull bred them. This year my calves are a real box of crayons. I have black cows with black calves and red cows with red calves. No surprise there. But I also have black cows with red calves and red cows with black calves. Four brockle faced Hereford cross cows with 2 black white face calves, a red brockle faced calf, and one with a straight Hereford colored calf. The two grey cows both have orange calves. There is a black Hereford cow with a solid black calf. A black cow with a grey calf. A blue roan cow with a black brockle face calf. An old style orange and white spotted simme cow with a black whitefaced calf. A yellow cow with a white calf. I am probably missing some of them. I have 14 cows yet to calf. They are 2 brockle faced Hereford cross cows, 2 brockle faced black white faced cows, 5 solid red cows, and 5 solid black cows. Who knows what color combinations are yet to come? It is like opening a Christmas present every day around here.

I admire you and your taste in cattle. So many people, and sadly some of them are breeders of non-angus purebreds, are succumbing to the black-at-any-price Certified Angus debacle. Give me anything but black cattle any day. I am so tired of them...

 

[Dave]

I admire you and your taste in cattle. So many people, and sadly some of them are breeders of non-angus purebreds, are succumbing to the black-at-any-price Certified Angus debacle. Give me anything but black cattle any day. I am so tired of them...

These are all old broken mouth one and done cows. The cows all get shipped direct to the kill plant in mid August. The weaned calves will leave in October. There are some criteria that come into play when I buy them. Breed is not real high on the list but there are some breeds that I avoid. I would just as soon have either black or char cross calves as they sell the best here. But frame size, feet and legs, healthy, not looking too old, bred to calf in my window, and price are my main concern.

 

[Travlr]

These are all old broken mouth one and done cows. The cows all get shipped direct to the kill plant in mid August. The weaned calves will leave in October. There are some criteria that come into play when I buy them. Breed is not real high on the list but there are some breeds that I avoid. I would just as soon have either black or char cross calves as they sell the best here. But frame size, feet and legs, healthy, not looking too old, bred to calf in my window, and price are my main concern.

I did very well raising replacement heifers by buying smooth/broken mouth cows and getting two or three calves out of them. The cows were successful mothers or they wouldn't have been that age, you could tell what kind of heifers you would get with the proper bull selection, and you could buy for conformation and be selective. Of course you had to spend a lot of time at the sale barn and be ready to buy when the right animal went through, and you had to cull if they didn't perform, but how is that any different from anyone else's herd? I prefered to buy them as they split the calves off in the fall so I could see what kind of calf they had raised, but that wasn't possible as often as I'd have liked. Of course I was looking for a certain type as well so I could get consistent results. But I often had some crayons in the box.

 

[Dave]

I did very well raising replacement heifers by buying smooth/broken mouth cows and getting two or three calves out of them. The cows were successful mothers or they wouldn't have been that age, you could tell what kind of heifers you would get with the proper bull selection, and you could buy for conformation and be selective. Of course you had to spend a lot of time at the sale barn and be ready to buy when the right animal went through, and you had to cull if they didn't perform, but how is that any different from anyone else's herd? I prefered to buy them as they split the calves off in the fall so I could see what kind of calf they had raised, but that wasn't possible as often as I'd have liked. Of course I was looking for a certain type as well so I could get consistent results. But I often had some crayons in the box.

They don't split them in the ring here. The vast majority of calves are weaned at home. I look for a framey cow who can put on some pounds. We are absolutely ruthless every cow goes to the plant. No exceptions. I would prefer that I was done calving them by now. But I started buying several months later then normal do to the hay situation. Buy mid winter cuts down on cost. I want to buy a cow who will pay back the purchase price going to the plant. I like to be one bid above the kill buyer. That way all I have against the calf is half a winters hay and the summer pasture cost. The down side is I figure a 5% death loss on these cows.

 

[MurraysMutts]

They don't split them in the ring here. The vast majority of calves are weaned at home. I look for a framey cow who can put on some pounds. We are absolutely ruthless every cow goes to the plant. No exceptions. I would prefer that I was done calving them by now. But I started buying several months later then normal do to the hay situation. Buy mid winter cuts down on cost. I want to buy a cow who will pay back the purchase price going to the plant. I like to be one bid above the kill buyer. That way all I have against the calf is half a winters hay and the summer pasture cost. The down side is I figure a 5% death loss on these cows.

On your calves...
Do they sell as singles or groups up there where u are?
I know when a guy has enough animals, making several groups isn't a problem.

When your tiny like me, it pays to get the calves same color I think. I'm working on it...
But most of mine are red or black or baldy of the same..

 

[Travlr]

On your calves...
Do they sell as singles or groups up there where u are?
I know when a guy has enough animals, making several groups isn't a problem.

When your tiny like me, it pays to get the calves same color I think. I'm working on it...
But most of mine are red or black or baldy of the same..

It pays to get friendly with the auction management. I always gave them advance notice if I was looking to buy and they would be sure to separate out animals or groups if they could. I worked with the vets behind the scenes as they bangs tested and preg checked, and they would preg check for me on request if the owner didn't request it. Privately held information is valuable. Selling was also handled better. It's in their interest to increase their sales figures so they were happy to do it.

 

[Little Joe]

It pays to get friendly with the auction management. I always gave them advance notice if I was looking to buy and they would be sure to separate out animals or groups if they could. I worked with the vets behind the scenes as they bangs tested and preg checked, and they would preg check for me on request if the owner didn't request it. Privately held information is valuable. Selling was also handled better. It's in their interest to increase their sales figures so they were happy to do it.

I agree with you for sure about being friendly with the management. I go to church with the guy that manages our local barn, he's the owner's son as well. Also know some of the guys that work the back and the guys from Livestock and Poultry Commission that are there. Sale barn is only about 5 miles from my house but I rarely get off work in time to make it so I give the manager my order and he buys what I want, that's a great deal too because he knows where they come from, why they are there, how their temperament has been handling them in the back and he is right in there with them to look them over good.

 

[puzzled in oregon]

I admire you and your taste in cattle. So many people, and sadly some of them are breeders of non-angus purebreds, are succumbing to the black-at-any-price Certified Angus debacle. Give me anything but black cattle any day. I am so tired of them...

Last year I saw some of the ranchers in this area part with their black/red bulls and bring in Charolais bulls, the calves they are getting
this year are white, red, black and all shades in between.

 

[Dave]

On your calves...
Do they sell as singles or groups up there where u are?
I know when a guy has enough animals, making several groups isn't a problem.

They sell mainly groups here. If you have mixed color but similar quality they will sell together.

It pays to get friendly with the auction management. I always gave them advance notice if I was looking to buy and they would be sure to separate out animals or groups if they could. I worked with the vets behind the scenes as they bangs tested and preg checked, and they would preg check for me on request if the owner didn't request it. Privately held information is valuable. Selling was also handled better. It's in their interest to increase their sales figures so they were happy to do it.

I know them but they run several thousand head a week. They are very busy running the sale. They aren't going to fish some old cows out of the kill pen for me. The vet is real good about sharing what information she has with me. One of the brand inspectors is also a neighbor and I can get information from her.

Last year I saw some of the ranchers in this area part with their black/red bulls and bring in Charolais bulls, the calves they are getting
this year are white, red, black and all shades in between.

I do see a lot of Charolias in some of these calves. That wont hurt their growth or sale price one bit.

 

[Travlr]

I know them but they run several thousand head a week. They are very busy running the sale. They aren't going to fish some old cows out of the kill pen for me.

I've bought and sold cattle through seven different sale barns, in three states. As an example, in South Dakota I did business with a smaller outfit that was closer to me, and with a barn that did ten times the business that was farther away. The smaller auction was hard to deal with. They were always "too busy" to customize their service. The big outfit made a point of providing service, and they reaped the benefits and the higher sales numbers... as well as more money in commissions. Two different attitudes. One barn trying to cut expenses by shorting their customers on services, the other going the extra mile as part of their way of doing business.
I see it all the time in other businesses as well. The businesses that get so stressed over expenses that they fail to provide service go out of business, and the companies that manage expenses but provide superior service become bigger.
The barn where I presently live averages about 2500/3000 head a week. Of course the numbers are far higher in the fall, and less the rest of the year. They ask, and remember, what their customers tend to buy. Even people that only buy a single animal a year for the family freezer. A great sale barn.
The real trick is to get them on your side and find ways to make it easy for them.

 

[Dave]

One of the two sales I go to it would be logistically difficult. The vet chutes is in the extreme southwest corner. The receiving gate is in the south east corner. The tagging/brand inspecting/processing chute is in the middle of the east end. And the old cows go to a big pen in the northeast corner. Lots of alleys, pens, and activity between A and B.
Most cows here get preg checked at home. As a result the vast majority that show up at the sale are open. A person could and I have done this in the past, go direct to the ranches and buy old cows which are bred. Just have to show up on preg check day and pick up ones that are bred but they are sorting off because of age.
I am not interested in keeping any of these cows past August. That is how my program works. They all come from full time commercial ranches which in this country means they use good bulls. This year it appears that they used Black Angus, Red Angus, and Charolias bulls. I have one Hereford looking calf out of a Hereford cross cow. I have 2 other cows from the same place. I hope they weren't all bred Hereford. One Hereford calf will slip into a good group of calves. Multiple ones and they will sort them off and sell separate for about 30 cents less.

 

[Dave]

I took a few picture of them this morning. Some were camera shy and took off as soon as I stopped the quad. A lot of the cows were eating while their calves were napping several hundred yards away.