RHARPSONE
Member
I am new but old to this. I grew up on a working farm but am just getting back into Hereford cattle. Good heifer calf was born backwards. What is probability of this happening again. Good cow.
Calf born backwards, should i keep first calf heifer?
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bigbull338
Well-known member
her having a backwards calf may never happen again.an its no reason to sell the cow.just means you watch her next year when she calves.
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RHARPSONE
Member
Thank you, just needed a little backup on this dicision. She pushed once vet got hind end thru and has passed her plecenta with no issues. She will be a good cow.
Amo
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Interesting. I had a set of twins. First one was breech and booth feet down. With twins as we found out there wasn't much room. Funny thing was (we never weighed them) but I was watching feet size. New bull and his BW EPD had went up and this was the first one. For being twins they were "normal" size. Came about a week and a half early. Had another set from same bull and they were both "normal" size. No problem with her calving, but suprised at the size of twins out of a heiffer and heiffer bull.
Kathie in Thorp
Well-known member
"Presentation" is a Mother-Nature-happenstance, that will not likely occur again. If your cow was able to deliver that calf without a C-section, there's no reason to get rid of her!
In most cases the reason for any mal presentation is lack of room for the calf to turn into the correct position. Reasons could vary from a very big calf, small heifer, overfat heifer, overfilled rumen, something trigger the birth before she was quite ready, leggy long calf, to just plain bad luck.
There is even a school of thought saying that backwards is also a normal presentation and that many calves are born backwards without being detected, while I disagree with this I have seen it happen.
All that said I don't subscribe to the long and slinky calf theory slipping out like wet spaghetti, either. I believe a compact, in proportion, calf of a sensible size is the way to go for heifers.
There is even a school of thought saying that backwards is also a normal presentation and that many calves are born backwards without being detected, while I disagree with this I have seen it happen.
All that said I don't subscribe to the long and slinky calf theory slipping out like wet spaghetti, either. I believe a compact, in proportion, calf of a sensible size is the way to go for heifers.
Helped my vet pull a backwards calf from a neighbors cow and he made a comment that while in vet school they said a lot of them are born backwards undetected. He stated a percentage that thet said, I forgot the number but it was a number high than expected. I think he doubted it.KNERSIE":3ju15vsc said:
Breech is where the tail comes first and the calf is born folded, or would if it do not get help.
It would not be necessary to cull the cow because it had a breech calf, but it is more likely she will be culled anyway due to slower breed back or poorer milking. Calving problems can lead to a variety of bigger and smaller troubles later on, retained placenta, bacterial growth in uterus, more time from calving to first estrus e.t.c.
Backwards mean to me the back feet both come first. I consider that to be normal; I have seen it so many times where it works fine without any help.
It would not be necessary to cull the cow because it had a breech calf, but it is more likely she will be culled anyway due to slower breed back or poorer milking. Calving problems can lead to a variety of bigger and smaller troubles later on, retained placenta, bacterial growth in uterus, more time from calving to first estrus e.t.c.
Backwards mean to me the back feet both come first. I consider that to be normal; I have seen it so many times where it works fine without any help.
Nesikep
Well-known member
I'm starting to wonder about the "chance" of a calf being born hind end first, and am seeing a pattern in my herd, 3 of the 4 I've had came from the same family of cows. I was up to my armpits in cow yesterday getting the hind legs of the calf out from facing forward. Calf was a 75 lb heifer, born at 279 days gestation, 10 days early from my herd average, dead unfortunately, which is possibly why she was early. Cow is a decent size, probably frame 6 and darned wide, she's had 120 lb calves before with no help. Now I'm milking her, an adventure unto itself, and hoping to get a holstein bull calf to give her some satisfaction.
I don't think I'd hesitate keeping that heifer. If she weren't a good cow I'd bump her up the cull list a bit if I had better stock in sight.
I don't think I'd hesitate keeping that heifer. If she weren't a good cow I'd bump her up the cull list a bit if I had better stock in sight.
canadian angus
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We calve out 300 plus head every year, cows and heifers. That has never been a culling issue as to cull or not. If she rebreeds, chances are it will never happen again.
Interesting comments about too big, too small. How do you explain upside down and backwards, or head back? Does that correlate to size or luck?
CA
Interesting comments about too big, too small. How do you explain upside down and backwards, or head back? Does that correlate to size or luck?
CA
regolith
Well-known member
I'm coming - slowly - to that conclusion. I don't think I've ever had a cow that the vet assisted breed back. Some of the ones I've pulled have, but complications are still common. The farm I worked on last year I calved a couple of cows that had got themselves into a fix... one trapped in a cutting leading to a creek, the other I found lying on the electric fence. Both took several days time and energy as they were down after calving and the result in both cases was a dead cow and a dead calf.
Some of them you can save for a long healthy life, is making the effort on ten cows to save two of them worth it?
Anguscattle
Well-known member
Backwards calf is actually quite common and even technically considered normal. While most producers would argue that point in a heartbeat due to the higher probability of dystocia (calving problems) with backwards calves. More calving trouble can often lead to more dead calves, but not always. Especially if these cows are watched closely around calving time and assistance is given. I have heard many people say that if the calf is backwards its almost certain that a C-section is necessary. Well honestly, thats just false. Calves can be pulled backwards and even born with no assistance at all. Usually its a case of lack of knowledge and the puller isnt properly doing the job so jumps to the conclusion of a C-section.
And I strongly agree with most everyone else.. That is no reason to cull a cow. It usually never has anything to do the the cow or genetics.
And I strongly agree with most everyone else.. That is no reason to cull a cow. It usually never has anything to do the the cow or genetics.
I have a question along these same lines:
I had a cow go into labor on Good Friday. Presentation was normal but she couldn't push past getting the front two hooves out. Had to pull the calf - he was HUGE. She had partial paralysis in her right back leg that went away within a few hours. She refused to acknowledge the calf, even charged at him. We milked her and gave him the colostrum. The bull (dad) has always had low birth weight calves, although they have always been little girls and this was his first bull calf. This was the cow's first baby. We had to put the baby down last night after discovering he had either a twisted bowel or a perforation in his stomach - either way, he had bloated twice before last night and we had twice rushed him to the vet. His breakfast was floating outside his stomach - bad situation. We said our goodbyes - we were all in love with the little guy.
My bull is confined to the barn for 4-5 weeks because he had a block epoxyed to a good toe to take weight off a split hoof (bad toe). He can't have his way with the cow for a good while so I have some time to plan.
These are pet cattle, not looking for a profit, but I want to avoid falling in love with another one of their babies and having a repeat of the past 11 days. What are the chances that, if I let them breed, their next baby will have these same issues? Large birth weight, difficult delivery, gastrointestinal issues....
If I get rid of the cow and keep only the bull (he was a bottle baby, very sweet and gentle), will he turn mean without companionship? I only bought the cow to keep him company and stroke his ego. I'd rather he be the only one in the pasture but I want to keep him amiable.
Thanks - I love this message board!
I had a cow go into labor on Good Friday. Presentation was normal but she couldn't push past getting the front two hooves out. Had to pull the calf - he was HUGE. She had partial paralysis in her right back leg that went away within a few hours. She refused to acknowledge the calf, even charged at him. We milked her and gave him the colostrum. The bull (dad) has always had low birth weight calves, although they have always been little girls and this was his first bull calf. This was the cow's first baby. We had to put the baby down last night after discovering he had either a twisted bowel or a perforation in his stomach - either way, he had bloated twice before last night and we had twice rushed him to the vet. His breakfast was floating outside his stomach - bad situation. We said our goodbyes - we were all in love with the little guy.
My bull is confined to the barn for 4-5 weeks because he had a block epoxyed to a good toe to take weight off a split hoof (bad toe). He can't have his way with the cow for a good while so I have some time to plan.
These are pet cattle, not looking for a profit, but I want to avoid falling in love with another one of their babies and having a repeat of the past 11 days. What are the chances that, if I let them breed, their next baby will have these same issues? Large birth weight, difficult delivery, gastrointestinal issues....
If I get rid of the cow and keep only the bull (he was a bottle baby, very sweet and gentle), will he turn mean without companionship? I only bought the cow to keep him company and stroke his ego. I'd rather he be the only one in the pasture but I want to keep him amiable.
Thanks - I love this message board!
Taurus
Well-known member
Did I read right, a pet bull?
SSGenetics
Well-known member
Taurus":rq9s1fsr said:
:shock:
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
kcwaldrop - the reason you got such a response is because as cattle breeders - we know the dangers of bulls. It really doesn't matter if he was bottle fed or not - bulls are bulls, and eventually they can hurt if not kill you. Sometimes hormones kick in and they can be a totally different animal.
You could have him castrated now by a vet and keep him by himself and he "should" stay more trust-worthy. Although, you should NEVER totally trust any bovine - they are big and they know it.
The size of the calf is highly determined by the cow and her nutrition. Genetics come equally from sire & dam, but the dam is also the "environment". If she had a high birth weight, she would pass that on to her offspring. Could she have a defective calf - yes - but unless it was a genetic defect passed on to the calf by the parents, it may have been "just one of those things".
You could have him castrated now by a vet and keep him by himself and he "should" stay more trust-worthy. Although, you should NEVER totally trust any bovine - they are big and they know it.
The size of the calf is highly determined by the cow and her nutrition. Genetics come equally from sire & dam, but the dam is also the "environment". If she had a high birth weight, she would pass that on to her offspring. Could she have a defective calf - yes - but unless it was a genetic defect passed on to the calf by the parents, it may have been "just one of those things".
