CAB

[Alan]

For there to be a lawsuit, somebody has to be damaged. I defy anyone to submit proof that steaks from purebred Angus would be any more flavorful, nutritious, or enjoyable than the current CAB steaks. If the same then how can there be damages??? IF there are no damages and Angus does make a goof faith effort to restrict non-qualifying carcasses from the program you don't have a case.

Goof? was that a slip on words?

I was tounge in cheek talking about the lawsuit, but I don't think having a standard that states cattle must be 51% black is a good faith attempt of keeping angus influence.

When the first U.S. case of mad cow was found in WA., as I have stated a couple of times on these boards, the 6 yr old downer holstien cow made it to our local grocery store meat shelves as hamburger patties. When I purchase Certified Angus Beef, my minimal expectation by the label, is it to be Angus beef, not anything else. It hasn't happened yet, but I could see some liberal judge finding damages for misleading the consumer.

Alan

 

[Brandonm2]

I should proof read. I touched the adjoining F key when I meant to touch the D key......sorry if that was too confusing.

Does anybody really believe that a straight Angus steer would be superior to a half Angus steer if both are the same quality grade??? I don't think we would be talking about CAB today if they had been stupid enough to limit the program to 100% pure Angus calves.

 

[lakading]

For there to be a lawsuit, somebody has to be damaged. I defy anyone to submit proof that steaks from purebred Angus would be any more flavorful, nutritious, or enjoyable than the current CAB steaks. If the same then how can there be damages??? IF there are no damages and Angus does make a goof faith effort to restrict non-qualifying carcasses from the program you don't have a case.

Goof? was that a slip on words?

I was tounge in cheek talking about the lawsuit, but I don't think having a standard that states cattle must be 51% black is a good faith attempt of keeping angus influence.

When the first U.S. case of mad cow was found in WA., as I have stated a couple of times on these boards, the 6 yr old downer holstien cow made it to our local grocery store meat shelves as hamburger patties. When I purchase Certified Angus Beef, my minimal expectation by the label, is it to be Angus beef, not anything else. It hasn't happened yet, but I could see some liberal judge finding damages for misleading the consumer.

Alan

Alan, as a consumer wanting 100% Angus beef, you have a valid concern.

I would be glad to sell you some 100% Registered Angus beef! We'll have to get together on the delivery charge. ;-) :lol:

 

[Alan]

I should proof read. I touched the adjoining F key when I meant to touch the D key......sorry if that was too confusing.

Does anybody really believe that a straight Angus steer would be superior to a half Angus steer if both are the same quality grade??? I don't think we would be talking about CAB today if they had been stupid enough to limit the program to 100% pure Angus calves.

Naw, it wasn't confusing, just humorous.

You guys defending CAB are taking the line of taste quality or comparison. I'm not refering to that, My point is on CAB advertising or marketing strategy. I don't think it is ethical or moraly right, let alone legal to market a product as Certified Angus Beef and not require that is be at least half angus not half black. If I was raising Angus, Red or Black, I would really be pissed, because of such a great program lowering it's standards to allow any black cow or steer into the program.

 

[dun]

I would really be be nice, because of such a great program lowering it's standards to allow any black cow or steer into the program.

The standards aren;t lowered, that's the whole point. If they meet the standard for quilaty grade and the other requirements, it can be sold as CAB.
AllCAB does in gaurentee that a certain piece of meat meets at least the minimum standards.
Forget it, what's the point?

dun

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I should proof read. I touched the adjoining F key when I meant to touch the D key......sorry if that was too confusing.

Does anybody really believe that a straight Angus steer would be superior to a half Angus steer if both are the same quality grade??? I don't think we would be talking about CAB today if they had been stupid enough to limit the program to 100% pure

• Angus calves

.

now thats what i was talking about

• before

 

[Frankie]

I should proof read. I touched the adjoining F key when I meant to touch the D key......sorry if that was too confusing.

Does anybody really believe that a straight Angus steer would be superior to a half Angus steer if both are the same quality grade??? I don't think we would be talking about CAB today if they had been stupid enough to limit the program to 100% pure Angus calves.

Naw, it wasn't confusing, just humorous.

You guys defending CAB are taking the line of taste quality or comparison. I'm not refering to that, My point is on CAB advertising or marketing strategy. I don't think it is ethical or moraly right, let alone legal to market a product as Certified Angus Beef and not require that is be at least half angus not half black. If I was raising Angus, Red or Black, I would really be be nice, because of such a great program lowering it's standards to allow any black cow or steer into the program.

They don't allow "any black cow or steer" into the program. The animal has to meet the USDA approved criteria. Only about 18% of the black cattle meeting the visual specs will qualify when the hide comes off. It's a pretty select group.

 

[Frankie]

I thinking maybe the CAB folks could buy me and the mrs. a bigger place and maybe retire a little early. Got a call into my lawyer.

Alan

You'll have to take on the packers. The American Angus Assn and CAB, LLC, don't own a single cow or an ounce of beef. They license the name to the packers. Under that licensing agreement, the packers agree to sell only beef that meets the CAB specs as CAB. If you can prove the beef didn't meet the specs, you might have a case.

 

[lakading]

Why do people buy beef. Far as I can tell, it is for the taste. If you're ticked about not getting 100% Angus in a CAB package, just buy a USDA Prime steak next time. Should taste better anyway.

I bet if it was changed it to CAIB (Certified Angus Influenced Beef) it may solve a lot of problems. But the brand has been built since the '70s as CAB.

 

[Alan]

I thinking maybe the CAB folks could buy me and the mrs. a bigger place and maybe retire a little early. Got a call into my lawyer.

Alan

You'll have to take on the packers. The American Angus Assn and CAB, LLC, don't own a single cow or an ounce of beef. They license the name to the packers. Under that licensing agreement, the packers agree to sell only beef that meets the CAB specs as CAB. If you can prove the beef didn't meet the specs, you might have a case.

Like I said in an earlier post, I was joking, hense the smily face.

 

[Frankie]

lakading,

I think you may have missed the point when I wrote about the chevy. The CAB is the same way. The people bought cars that had Chevrolet on the front, back, books, all labels, etc. But what was under the hood, while it was a GM product, was not what the people had purchased.

The Chevy owners didn't win their suite because there was a different engine under the hood. They won the suite because the specifications on the vehicle called for a specific motor and GM substituted without notification. Meat that meets the USDA approved specifications is CAB. The specifications do not say an animal must have any Angus to qualify as CAB.

The Certified ANGUS Beef is kind of the same thing. The label says Certified ANGUS Beef. True, it would have to be at least 50% angus (Angus X Hereford = Black Baldie with 50% Angus influence), I think that this is fine because if qualifies. The big complaint that everyone is having is when there is no Angus influence (Black Simmental X Hereford, Balck Gelbvieh X Hereford; Black Maine Anjou X Hereford) where is the ANGUS in those black baldie cattle) Not an ouce of Angus blood. Black hair only.

Where did the Black Simmentals come from? Blak Gelbvieh? Black Maines? They got black by adding Angus to their breed. And whatever the percentage of Angus, if they meet the specifications, they can be CAB.

To the unsuspecting consumer, and most urban americans don't know Angus from Jersey, if they buy a product according to what is on the label, they would expect the product inside to be what is on the label. Look at Pork and Beans, when you buy a can of them you expect there to be pork in it, and thankfully there is that 1/2 inch square peice of pork in it that does qualify it to be PORK and beans.

And the vast majority of black cattle in the US got that way from Angus influence.

An Angus breeder should be proud that their breed has a program that is very successful. What they should be upset and demand is that the product should be ANGUS influenced gentically as well. If they look at it from the standpoint that what ever percent that qualifies for CAB that has absolutely no Angus influence in it, then they are not receiving all the premium that they should be on their cattle. The Angus people are taking credit for anything that has a black hair coat even if it has no ANGUS breeding in it. That ain't right.

Some Angus breeders are upset that anything black can be CAB. It doesn't bother me because those generic black cattle don't meet CAB specs as often as Angus sired calves. As the AngusSource tag (identifying the animal as being sired by a registered Angus bull), catches on, we'll see the real value of Angus over the pretenders.

 

[Alan]

I bet if it was changed it to CAIB (Certified Angus Influenced Beef) it may solve a lot of problems. But the brand has been built since the '70s as CAB.

That is the only point I have been making, call it what it is. It's not about the taste it's about the misleading brand name. That's my point Dun.

By the way as some of you know I raise Polled Herefords. The CHB standards are basicly the same for breed standards as CAB 51% white face, they too are about color not breed. So CAB isn't the only outfit misleading in the brand name.

Alan

 

[Frankie]

I bet if it was changed it to CAIB (Certified Angus Influenced Beef) it may solve a lot of problems. But the brand has been built since the '70s as CAB.

That is the only point I have been making, call it what it is. It's not about the taste it's about the misleading brand name. That's my point Dun.

By the way as some of you know I raise Polled Herefords. The CHB standards are basicly the same for breed standards as CAB 51% white face, they too are about color not breed. So CAB isn't the only outfit misleading in the brand name.

Alan

Except regular CHB will accept Choice and Select quality grades.

 

[bull56]

Frankie,

You are right, the Angus Source ear tags would solve the problem, if they stayed in all the way to the packer, this would be proof positive that the beef then was really Angus influenced.

While it may be true that some of the other breeds were able to get a black hair coat from the Angus, the Angus has been bred out of the black purebred? stock with the only thing left from the Angus is the black hair, maybe the hair color is the 51% Angus.

The Angus Source tags are an excellent idea, the only problem in getting it implemented is that their is too much confusion about the whole animal identification program. Producers don't know what tags or program to go with. Do they choose a tag because of breed, the sale barn's tag, the feed companies tag or do they go with the company promoting a certain vaccine program. What happen's? They end up not doing any tagging at all because they feel that they would end up putting in the wrong tag and end up penalized wherever they sell their cattle.

 

[Frankie]

The National Animal ID program is confusing to a lot of us. We're going to a program at the Noble Foundation later this month. They keep up with what's going on and will share it with their coopertors, or anyone else who wants to call and talk to them. The Angus Assn has been working to get the AngusSource tag to work as the national ID, too. I don't know where that stands, but the tag has a place for premises ID on it.

I'm not especially educated about "breeding up" since Angus doesn't allow it. I used to have a friend who raised Limousin and he said you can never register a bred up Limousin as a Fullblood (or is it Purebred? I get those terms confused).

 

[bull56]

I think with most of the Continental breeds the term fullblood would apply to an animal that was imported that was 100% blood of its breed.

The term purebred applies to the animals that are "bred up" which is going to be different. For some they consider females to be purebred at 7/8 and bulls at 15/16, while others that have been in the US longer (Charlais) I they consider a purebred as an animal with 31/32 Charlais parentage.

 

[Brandonm2]

I bet if it was changed it to CAIB (Certified Angus Influenced Beef) it may solve a lot of problems. But the brand has been built since the '70s as CAB.

That is the only point I have been making, call it what it is. It's not about the taste it's about the misleading brand name. That's my point Dun.

By the way as some of you know I raise Polled Herefords. The CHB standards are basicly the same for breed standards as CAB 51% white face, they too are about color not breed. So CAB isn't the only outfit misleading in the brand name.

Alan

The only other breed out there with a white face is Simmental and those Hereford appearing Simmies are fading fast so I don't think there is really a problem with many calves that aren't Hereford being misidentified as Herefords and making the CHB program. In defense of the Angus people, black Simmentals, Gelbviehs, Limousins, Salers, Senepols, Beefmasters, Maine Anjous, etc were extremely rare freaks that presumably would be bred out as grading up beeders replaced them with cattle that displayed the correct breed characteristics when the CAB program was first launched. There was no way anybody could predict that the black freaks would become the breed standards of many breeds. I think eventually Hereford verified will eliminate the need for using non-traceable calves all together. Angus has had so much success that CAB is rapidly being overtaken by other "Angus" brands so I don't believe there will ever be enough "Angus verified" calves to fill the demand of all the various "Angus" products out there.