Lucky_P":3qbslonn said:
Bez,
Not picking at or on you, but you're just one of a long line of folks I've seen claim that constantly selecting for low BW/high CED leads to cows that can't have larger calves (or did I get that wrong?)
But I have to disagree - IF you also look at CEM/MCE(maternal calving ease) and consider it in breeding decisions, I wouldn't think you'd have that result.
I frequently use low BW/high CED bulls on heifers, and occasionally on cows - but one of my selection criteria also requires that they be above breed average for maternal calving ease, regardless of BW/CED - which suggests that their daughters will calve out easily as first-calf heifers.
So...while I may have stacked multiple generations of low BW/high CED, I've also got multiple generations of high MCE stacked in there, too.
Low MCE is what's kept me away from most of the OCC line of Angus cattle - would like to use some of them, but most I've looked at were well below breed average, and I won't go there, unless I were using 'em as terminal sires, with no intent to keep heifers.
Don't care if I never pull another calf.
Nope - you can pick on me all day long - I have broad shoulders and am always open to talking about this one - and I have been very successful in how we do things here - essentially push button animals.
And while I do not 100% claim it to be so, I do believe it is possibly the reason for what I am about to write.
I just seem to always be reading about someone who has to pull a (so called) gigantic 90 pound calf.
That is not a giant calf - and to say so tells me you might have problems again if she cannot handle it.
Ours probably average 90 - 100 pounds.
Since we moved on to this new farm in 2002 we have pulled or assisted very few - wifes records show one was backwards with a leg hung up, two were simply too large and one was tangled as twins.
But those under 80 pound calves that so many people brag about always seem to come from folks who - and you can find them on here every year -pull "those big 90 pounders".
In my experience small calves over the years have led to cows having less ability to have big calves - you can avoid the big calves all day long - but they do happen to even the best of breeders and planners -
the exception is what the cow has to be able to handle - NOT the rule.
And so every ten years of so we start to go down the path of got to have smaller calves.
I have always said and we will not likely change here - that if a cow cannot comfortably have - as a heifer and a first timer - at a minimum, a 100 pound calf - I do not want her on the place. And - touch wood - we have been very successfull in breeding that ability into the animals.
So we can agree to disagree - but I would be willing to bet that on average we pull less calves than anyone I personally know.
It is late and I am off to bed - be safe and have a great day tomorrow.
My best to you
Bez
