Bull for best outcome

[denvermartinfarms]

Well I guess that explains it. Sorry if i hurt your feelings. If you had said my sister was ugly it wouldn't have bothered me(cuz she is) but ya knock my cows and i get hot pretty quick :lol2:

Naa, my feelings don't hurt that easy. I guess it just stuck with me.

 

[houstoncutter]

Chep58 it would be a brangus for me , red or black. You would retain your maternal traits and get a desirable hybridization.

 

[3waycross]

Chep58 it would be a brangus for me , red or black. You would retain your maternal traits and get a desirable hybridization.

Probably a good choice for South Carolina

 

[denvermartinfarms]

:compute:

denvermartinfarms-

Reading your posts here, and a few others in this thread, it seems to me that almost everyone commenting is focusing on and talking about how the resulting progeny will LOOK - how colors will match and blend and harmonize and mix together to LOOK "good". Considering first things first, "Rainbow" colors won't bring fifteen cents to your wallet, or produce squat to your future Profit line! We don't eat "LOOKS", we don't sell just "LOOKS", and we don't just promote "LOOKS" only. If a breeder is interested in making a profit, both now, and in the future, he should be concentrating on the factors which will increase his herd PRODUCTION abilities, and encourage the Genetic combinations which will produce an increase in the Bank Accounts! "Rainbow" colored cattle are a far cry from profitable production practices.

Of course, if chep58 has his herd goals established for a "mixed colored" cow herd, then I suppose he is on a road to achieving those goals. That is not to say that his cow herd of 150 head (more or less) won't display a few head that have some profitable phenotype and produce a certain percentage of progeny which will make some money, but I can imagine that it is an inconsistent occurance over time.

The solution to his request for assistance lies in just exactly what he is trying to achieve with his next crop of calves. The problem which exists here is - I don't think that he really knows what he wants in a breeding herd. I fear that he is reluctant to make a decision because of what his Dad may think, and disagree with his decisions. And - only he can make the choice to change or not.

DOC HARRIS

I wasn't saying a wide range of colors is a good thing, I was saying if it has happend that your cow herd is mixed a Hereford is a good all around bull.

And like jake said good looking and shaped cattle in the ring do make money.

 

[houstoncutter]

Don't remember telling you it was "stupid" but it doesn't make a lot of sense. Continental to Continental never made much sense to me!

Yea, I said that my heifers that I ended up with from that never made very good cows, you said my cows had to be junk and I was dumb for crossing them that way. It's been a couple years ago.

I don't suppose you still have that post. I am not usually that blunt, and i am blunt. Apparently it has stuck with you![/quote]
It wasn't a big deal, I remember it because I was fairly new here, someone asked about gelbvieh's and I told my experience with them, witch hadn't been all that great. It seemed to have really bothered you for some reason. I just thought "boy what did I do to this guy" :lol2:[/quote]


I guess I'll kick the hot turd. Unless your a purebred breeder or have no other choice selections, crossing a continental on a continental is stupid!

 

[denvermartinfarms]

I guess I'll kick the hot turd. Unless your a purebred breeder or have no other choice selections, crossing a continental on a continental is stupid!

Ok, got it. I'll have it announced at the Salebarn today than everyone useing a gelbvieh on there Charolais cows and making top selling yellow steers, is stupid :lol2:

 

[denvermartinfarms]

Dang, something else just hit me, limousin and Charolais must also a stupid cross. Wow almost everyone around here cross breeding there Charolais is stupid. Out of red angus, red gelbvieh and red limousin bulls being used here on Charolais, the very least used will be the red angus.

 

[3waycross]

Dang, something else just hit me, limousin and Charolais must also a stupid cross. Wow almost everyone around here cross breeding there Charolais is stupid. Out of red angus, red gelbvieh and red limousin bulls being used here on Charolais, the very least used will be the red angus.

I gues this begs the question. Why not Belgian BlueX Charolais, or FleckviehxCharolais(the bone alone on that one would weigh a thousand lbs). If all you want is meat and lots of it then there's the cross.

FWIW none of the crosses you mention except RA gives the feeders a chance in he[[ of producing a piece of meat that will make a premium for a higher end program.

 

[Taurus]

Yup crossing a continental to another continental is stupid, there is a reason why it's not popular in feedlots and at the salebarns. Super lean meat and no marbling in the meat.

 

[farmforever]

So for the person who feeds his own calves is it that bad? Last year our fats out of the char limo cross brought a slightly better price on avg and were heavier at sale time. We don't mind it.

 

[Rahe Family Belties]

I believe Red Angus bulls would give you the lighter BW calves you seek along with a little kick in heterosis, all without sacrificing growth and milk.

That comes from someone who has never owned a RA!

Good luck sir.

 

[Taurus]

I believe Red Angus bulls would give you the lighter BW calves you seek along with a little kick in heterosis, all without sacrificing growth and milk.

That comes from someone who has never owned a RA!

Good luck sir.

Plus a better marbling in the meat!

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I sure like stupid people folks with Char cows keep me in the bull Busniess. For worthless calves they sure as hell sell good.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

denvermartinfarms-

We don't eat "LOOKS", we don't sell just "LOOKS", and we don't just promote "LOOKS" only

The operative word in this post is only. I think that we all know that appearance in a sale ring is the primary factor which buyers concentrate on. My point is, it takes MORE than appearance (phenotype) to be successful in the beef business.

DOC HARRIS

 

[denvermartinfarms]

I sure like stupid people folks with Char cows keep me in the bull Busniess. For worthless calves they sure as be nice sell good.

Yep.

 

[3waycross]

So for the person who feeds his own calves is it that bad? Last year our fats out of the char limo cross brought a slightly better price on avg and were heavier at sale time. We don't mind it.

The truly nice thing about living in America is this............You can within reason do any dam thing you want. BTW did they bring a better price than blk fats did? Just curious!

and that is not a knock on either breed.

 

[Engler]

First let me say that I know nothing about raising cattle in SC. Second I know nothing about the market there. Third I don't know anything about what's available for bulls/breeds. And fourth we don't know much about your management practices. With all of that said my advice would be the following:

Assuming you know what cows are sired by what breed of bull split them accordingly. You said that you/dad have been running Angus and Gel bulls and for the sake of discussion lets say that about half are sired by each. Stock one pasture with all Angus sired cows and breed them to a Gel bull and take the Gel sired cows and breed them Angus. I'm a little rusty on genetics and heterosis, but I think doing this you should retain about 67%. You should be able to make your own replacements and the steers/cull heifers should be similar enough to sell as one group. If splitting isn't a good option you could run a balancer(GxA cross) bull(s) on them and still maintain some of the heterosis and it's easier management.

In my opinion the Red Angus are better cattle than the blacks for a commercial operation, but the black hided cattle sell better. With that I would use black Angus and homo black homo polled Gel bulls. Might get a little white from the Herf or Simi, but that shouldn't be a killer. If you need red hided cows for heat reasons just use the red versions. If you need a shot of ear use Brangus or Southern Balancers. These calves should ring the bell at the sale barn or if you want to retain ownership they should do well in the feedyard and on the rail.

Not bashing Herfs, Simis, Limis or other fill in the blank breeds, but with what you have to work with I think this would be the quickest, easiest and probably cheapest way to move forward. All this advice is based on your ability to sourse QUALITY bulls for a reasonable price.

 

[houstoncutter]

I guess I'll kick the hot turd. Unless your a purebred breeder or have no other choice selections, crossing a continental on a continental is stupid!

Ok, got it. I'll have it announced at the Salebarn today than everyone useing a gelbvieh on there Charolais cows and making top selling yellow steers, is stupid :lol2:

Maybe it depends on where you live. You hollered that at a sale barn in se texas, they would tell you to " please sit down pilgrim, your just figuring that out....I'm curious why would anyone want to use a char as a maternal cow. I could see the Gelbvieh covered with a English or eared breed, cause the Gelp
is early maturing sexually and will milk

 

[denvermartinfarms]

I guess I'll kick the hot turd. Unless your a purebred breeder or have no other choice selections, crossing a continental on a continental is stupid!

Ok, got it. I'll have it announced at the Salebarn today than everyone useing a gelbvieh on there Charolais cows and making top selling yellow steers, is stupid :lol2:

Maybe it depends on where you live. You hollered that at a sale barn in se texas, they would tell you to " please sit down pilgrim, your just figuring that out....I'm curious why would anyone want to use a char as a maternal cow. I could see the Gelbvieh covered with a English or eared breed, cause the Gelp
is early maturing sexually and will milk

I agree completely that it is a difference in area. But around here there are more gelbvieh and limousin bulls used on Charolais cows than any other bulls. And I don't think it's always stupid.

I honestly don't have a bull in the fight, anymore all I use is angus, brangus and horned Hereford bulls. That's what works on my cows and it's what I like.

 

[Taurus]

There WAS a commercial herd of Charolais cows near us for few years till few new Hereford cows showed up in their pasture last year and there was less white cows. My guess? They were replacing Charolais cows with Hereford cows but they are still running Charolais bulls with the herfs. The pasture looks better lately with more grass..

That said, this is only one commercial herd that has charolais cows in 100-200 miles radius....never saw another commercial herd of charolais while driving around out in the cattle country.