Bull Buying Basics

[aussie_cowgirl]

I can find a better bull with good rib eye and marbling. People shouldn't look past confirmation. You don't eat feet but if they're shoddy you're screwed. I'll look at a bull, confirmation wise and then look at his EPD's. I don't care if you think that's wrong. A bull with good confirmation, good muscle growth etc, will normally have good EPD's. If he doesn't I'll move on. Simple. It makes me super selective but my herd will benefit from that.

Problem is you can;t see the ribeye and marbling with the hide on. We have 2 cows that are half sisters. They look so much alike they could be twins. Built the same, same udder, same width and deptch, etc. One cow bred to about anything has calves that always go choice and usually high choice. The other cow bred to the same bulls or even to a strictly ribeye and marbeling bull has never had a calf that is anything but barely middle select.

What I mean Dun is that I can find a bull with good confirmation and muscle growth and what not, with his EPDs indicating good rib eye and muscling. It sure whittles down the group but atleast I know I have a good bull.

 

[dun]

What I mean Dun is that I can find a bull with good confirmation and muscle growth and what not, with his EPDs indicating good rib eye and muscling. It sure whittles down the group but atleast I know I have a good bull.

The vet and I had almost the same discussion today. With my selection criteria for both cows and bulls the available talent is cut way, way down. The discussion started when he was over here weighing his weaned calves and I convinced him to cut all of the bull calves. The subject of selecting too strongly for carcass traits without regards to the more important parts.
Our heifers are our strong suite, the bulls make good steers but they are rarely bull material.

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

What I mean Dun is that I can find a bull with good confirmation and muscle growth and what not, with his EPDs indicating good rib eye and muscling. It sure whittles down the group but atleast I know I have a good bull.

The vet and I had almost the same discussion today. With my selection criteria for both cows and bulls the available talent is cut way, way down. The discussion started when he was over here weighing his weaned calves and I convinced him to cut all of the bull calves. The subject of selecting too strongly for carcass traits without regards to the more important parts.
Our heifers are our strong suite, the bulls make good steers but they are rarely bull material.

But not being ruthless is why there is so much crap around. IMO.

 

[KNERSIE]

Our heifers are our strong suite, the bulls make good steers but they are rarely bull material.

That has always puzzled me, I have a good friend who has an outstanding cowherd and I have bought 23 heifers from him over the last 5 years, but I have rarely seen a bull at his place that I would consider using even commercially. Pedigree wise there isn't all that much difference between our herds as we used genetics from the same sources. The only difference is I AI with other genetics to specifically try and breed bulls for own use, while he is happy to buy his bulls.

 

[novatech]

I agree with the article except for one fact. It is the nature of people to buy the package. The good looking package will out sell the quality hands down.
If you do not have the marketing ability or the market to sell the quality then all you have left is the package. Most commercial producers sell at the auction barn where the package is all that counts.
The hardest thing to capitalise on is what people cannot see.

In a world P poor economy the cosmetics market has not been hurt at all.

 

[Wisteria Farms]

A reminder on EPD's.....careful of the ones with low accuracy or you might just have a mess....

 

[TheBullLady]

I definately check out the "wrapping". Year before last I bought a ET bull, out of a well known donor cow, and at the time, the most popular AI bull. He wasn't so much to look at, but I bought him on the pedigree. Guess what? Most of his calves weren't so much to look at either.

 

[Wisteria Farms]

A reminder on EPD's.....careful of the ones with low accuracy or you might just have a mess....

I have bought nothing but yearling bulls and never had a mess.

Congratulations! I'm sure you checked the parents' EPD's/Accuracy...

 

[dun]

A reminder on EPD's.....careful of the ones with low accuracy or you might just have a mess....

I have bought nothing but yearling bulls and never had a mess.

Congratulations! I'm sure you checked the parents' EPD's/Accuracy...

I always check back at least 3 generations. We've been bit twice. One on a heifer we bought thatwas bred to a bull with low accuracys that was in the upper 10% of the breed for CE and lower 20% for BW. We pulled a 110 pound calf from the heifer. Now that the bull is in the higher accuracy range his BW is in the upper 20% and his CE is in the lower 5%.
The other was a bull from a long line of good performing cattle. His milk EPD was just above average for the breed, now it's less then half of the breed average.
Sometimes those genes just don;t line up very well and sometimes they seem to line up all wrong.

 

[Wisteria Farms]

Amen to that Dun....I'm too new to have been bitten yet but old enough to have LISTENED very closely!!