BSE trail goes cold

[WORANCH]

You will only have to tag an animal if you sell it . If you raise a cow and she dies before you sell her you will never have to tag her .

You're flat out wrong about that.. If the animal moves off your property, that movement legally has to be recorded.. Can't take one to the vet without a tag, which means it should be tagged in advance -- unless you want to wait until it goes down before tagging and submitting the info to the Feds.. I don't know of any cattleman who would take that chance.

And, before you say you'll have the vet come out, remember that the vet will be legally required to submit the 'sighting' of the animal.. If it doesn't have a tag, he'll have to report you to the Feds.

This is from the NAIS WEB SITE . Try to read it slow.

Q. If a Person Raises Animals and the Animals Never Leave the Owner's Property, Do They Need to be Identified?
A. Under the current plan, animals that never leave a premises do not need to be identified.


When people show or commingle their animals with animals from multiple premises, the possibility of spreading disease becomes a factor. Those animals will need to be identified.


I guess if you carry your cattle ( and your goats) to the vet everytime they sneeze you'll need them taged.

 

[cmjust0]

When people show or commingle their animals with animals from multiple premises, the possibility of spreading disease becomes a factor. Those animals will need to be identified.


I guess if you carry your cattle ( and your goats) to the vet everytime they sneeze you'll need them taged.

Your logic is utterly rediculous.. If you anticipate needing help from a vet, *ever*, you'd better have your animals tagged.

Period.

If you leave your animals untagged and one develops problems that go beyond the scope of your knowledge and/or tools, you'll have to either shoot it or expose yourself as a criminal.. My guess is that a cattleman who thought highly enough of himself as to ASSUME he'd never need a vet would be prone to just shoot it...

If he's worth a damn, though, he oughta kick himself in the ass all the way back to the house, and then tag all his animals ASAP to avoid having to shoot another cow worth saving...

From where I stand, you're being very irresponsible.. By poking fun at people who call the vet for assistance, you're exacerbating a problem that's already been discussed here time and again.. One right after another, the old hands tell people to CALL THE VET, and beat up on people for checking message boards before getting their animals some real assistance..

Then here you come... A big bad cattleman who doesn't need to tag his animals, because he'll never NEED a vet...

Good advice.. :roll: Hopefully a lot of newbies look up to you, so we can see more "WHY IS MY COW DYING?" threads around here..

 

[Oldtimer]

WOranch-- Do you Bangs vaccinate your replacement heifers? When the vet comes to Bangs vaccinate you will need to have it tagged and that tag # recorded on the bangs certificate-- in fact the certificates already have a spot on them for recording the tag numbers......

How about your bulls? Do you have them tested every year before breeding season?- you will need a tag in them before they are tested .....

 

[WORANCH]

When people show or commingle their animals with animals from multiple premises, the possibility of spreading disease becomes a factor. Those animals will need to be identified.


I guess if you carry your cattle ( and your goats) to the vet everytime they sneeze you'll need them taged.

Your logic is utterly rediculous.. If you anticipate needing help from a vet, *ever*, you'd better have your animals tagged.

not true


If you leave your animals untagged and one develops problems that go beyond the scope of your knowledge and/or tools, you'll have to either shoot it or expose yourself as a criminal.. My guess is that a cattleman who thought highly enough of himself as to ASSUME he'd never need a vet would be prone to just shoot it...

I never said I would never use a vet

If he's worth a be nice, though, he oughta kick himself in the ass all the way back to the house, and then tag all his animals ASAP to avoid having to shoot another cow worth saving...

From where I stand, you're being very irresponsible.. By poking fun at people who call the vet for assistance, you're exacerbating a problem that's already been discussed here time and again.. One right after another, the old hands tell people to CALL THE VET, and beat up on people for checking message boards before getting their animals some real assistance..

If someone has a problem they can't handle call a vet or put the animal down .




Good advice.. :roll: Hopefully a lot of newbies look up to you, so we can see more "WHY IS MY COW DYING?" threads around here..

ONE MORE TIME .


If the cow does not leave your place you do not have to tag it . A vet can come out and work your cattle they do not have to be tagged.

FROM THE NAIS WEB SITE..

Q. If a Person Raises Animals and the Animals Never Leave the Owner's Property, Do They Need to be Identified?

A. Under the current plan, animals that never leave a premises do not need to be identified.


If you need a vet call one . I use one sometimes nothing wrong with it . .

 

[WORANCH]

WOranch-- Do you Bangs vaccinate your replacement heifers? When the vet comes to Bangs vaccinate you will need to have it tagged and that tag # recorded on the bangs certificate-- in fact the certificates already have a spot on them for recording the tag numbers......

How about your bulls? Do you have them tested every year before breeding season?- you will need a tag in them before they are tested .....

Yes we vaccinate but the vet does not do it , the state has a rep do it .Again my understanding is if cattle are not moved you don't have to tag . But if we have to tag I don't see that big of a problem . We already id cows and calves and if they will bring more taged we will do it .
I don't really like it but it's coming , and it might help get M-COOL in place. Packers will run out of excuses.

 

[frenchie]

And it should not be too hard for you to tell your 2 animals apart

What two animals are these you keep mentioning? I plan to run meat goats, too, which usually kid twins.. If I had 15 does and a buck, I could end up with close to 50 animals that need tags.. That doesn't even account for cattle.

See, you'll never understand the complications of NAIS unless you manage to think beyond just cattle.. Try to see the bigger picture, if you're able.. (...I'm not holding my breath...)

Yeah lets see 15 does to get 50 head that is about roughly 3.2 kids per doe .. what a joke ..your dreaming..Again :roll: Thats also equivalant to about 4 A.U.M..On what 27 acres :lol: .Not including cows :lol: ...Hope you got irrigation.

 

[frenchie]

..it will likely be a fee .Something similar to a brand inspection fee..Don,t think it will happen guess again.

How many times have I heard on this forum that cattlemen are lucky to get $100/head profit on their cattle, and yet you expect me to believe that $20-$30 of that is going to be chopped right off the top -- with no effect to the supply side? Think about what you're saying -- you're talking about a 20-30% drop in profit for the average cattle producer.. Do you really think producers would just roll over and accept it??.

You won,t have a choice If you want sell your cattle..
And what If the packers convinced The U.S.D.A to require the Use of the new Blood test for B.S.E and if you wanted to sell cattle .You had to have a vet out and blood test your entire herd... Then what ...think the packer will send you a check. :?:

Think thats not possible I seen it happen with T.B and The producers payed all the costs involved.

If so, then clearly you don't know squat about an open market.. If profit drops, supply follows.. Those left producing are the ones who can afford to continue producing at that price -- usually, the low quality corner cutters and/or very, very high volume producers.. If demand remained high and resulted in a shortage (which it would), prices WOULD increase until the market stabilized.. When it stabilized, that $20-30 fee would be accounted for (or it would never stabilize), and producers would still get their $100/head profit like they did before -- or more, to account for the cost and trouble of getting back in.. .

Sooner or later the real cattleman has to sell his cattle to pay his bills unlike the wannabes like yourself.

Any way you slice it, the cost is passed on to the consumer??.

Total B.S

 

[frenchie]

From where I stand, you're being very irresponsible.. By poking fun at people who call the vet for assistance, you're exacerbating a problem that's already been discussed here time and again.. One right after another, the old hands tell people to CALL THE VET, and beat up on people for checking message boards before getting their animals some real assistance..

Then here you come... A big bad cattleman who doesn't need to tag his animals, because he'll never NEED a vet...

Good advice.. :roll: Hopefully a lot of newbies look up to you, so we can see more "WHY IS MY COW DYING?" threads around here..

While WORANCH and I don,t like each other much.

I,m willing to bet he has likely forgotten more about treating sick animals ,then you will ever know with an attitude like yours.

 

[WORANCH]

From where I stand, you're being very irresponsible.. By poking fun at people who call the vet for assistance, you're exacerbating a problem that's already been discussed here time and again.. One right after another, the old hands tell people to CALL THE VET, and beat up on people for checking message boards before getting their animals some real assistance..

Then here you come... A big bad cattleman who doesn't need to tag his animals, because he'll never NEED a vet...

Good advice.. :roll: Hopefully a lot of newbies look up to you, so we can see more "WHY IS MY COW DYING?" threads around here..

While WORANCH and I don,t like each other much.

I,m willing to bet he has likely forgotten more about treating sick animals ,then you will ever know with an attitude like yours.

Frenchie we might not agree on somethings but I would shake your hand and buy you a cold one any day..

 

[Texan]

 

[frenchie]

From where I stand, you're being very irresponsible.. By poking fun at people who call the vet for assistance, you're exacerbating a problem that's already been discussed here time and again.. One right after another, the old hands tell people to CALL THE VET, and beat up on people for checking message boards before getting their animals some real assistance..

Then here you come... A big bad cattleman who doesn't need to tag his animals, because he'll never NEED a vet...

Good advice.. :roll: Hopefully a lot of newbies look up to you, so we can see more "WHY IS MY COW DYING?" threads around here..

While WORANCH and I don,t like each other much.

I,m willing to bet he has likely forgotten more about treating sick animals ,then you will ever know with an attitude like yours.

Frenchie we might not agree on somethings but I would shake your hand and buy you a cold one any day..

Sounds like a plan.

 

[Oldtimer]

WOranch-- Do you Bangs vaccinate your replacement heifers? When the vet comes to Bangs vaccinate you will need to have it tagged and that tag # recorded on the bangs certificate-- in fact the certificates already have a spot on them for recording the tag numbers......

How about your bulls? Do you have them tested every year before breeding season?- you will need a tag in them before they are tested .....

Yes we vaccinate but the vet does not do it , the state has a rep do it .Again my understanding is if cattle are not moved you don't have to tag . But if we have to tag I don't see that big of a problem . We already id cows and calves and if they will bring more taged we will do it .
I don't really like it but it's coming , and it might help get M-COOL in place. Packers will run out of excuses.

WO ranch-- As far as I can read the original NAIS proposal, and as it has been explained to me- which is what the USDA is pushing for if they get their way- every "sighting" of your cattle will need to have an inspection recording- no matter if it is for a vaccination or if your cow crawls the fence and is called in for being outside its pasture..... Each of these inspections will cost the owner- how much?- no one knows.....

My local vet has said that if he has to buy the computer and reader equipment and hire someone to do the additional paperwork required under the law that he would be looking at a price of $10 per head just for the health inspections because of the time and cost involved- and around here vets are few and far between, so you can't shop around....

My cattle have been IDed for 40+ years - eartag and brands-- but I don't think you realize what a costly bureaucracy is being created with this new ID proposal....

As far as M-COOL is concerned-- every bit of beef and all live cattle coming into the US today is already identified and marked as to country of origin--but the packers/ retailers are still cutting off the labels ( or disregarding them) and relabeling with a USDA inspected stamp and passing it off to unknowing US consumers as US product.....

M-ID doesn't guarantee the Packers/retailers will pass any info on to consumers- or back to producers......

 

[Oldtimer]

Moore says mad cow timing odd
Saturday, March 25, 2006
KIM CHANDLER
News staff writer

MONTGOMERY - Republican gubernatorial candidate Roy Moore said Friday it was a "strange coincidence" that mad cow disease was found in Alabama just as government officials want to start an animal-identification system.

Moore is opposed to a national tracking system that would give identification numbers to farm animals and to a bill pending in the Alabama Legislature that would authorize Alabama to start its own tracking system.

"It's a strange coincidence that we have a case of mad cow disease at the same time the Senate is debating this bill," Moore said. "I see this as an imposition on freedom and liberty.

 

[frenchie]

Moore says mad cow timing odd
Saturday, March 25, 2006
KIM CHANDLER
News staff writer

MONTGOMERY - Republican gubernatorial candidate Roy Moore said Friday it was a "strange coincidence" that mad cow disease was found in Alabama just as government officials want to start an animal-identification system.

Moore is opposed to a national tracking system that would give identification numbers to farm animals and to a bill pending in the Alabama Legislature that would authorize Alabama to start its own tracking system.

"It's a strange coincidence that we have a case of mad cow disease at the same time the Senate is debating this bill," Moore said. "I see this as an imposition on freedom and liberty.

BLACK HELICOPTERS


People sometimes report being observed or chased by black helicopters. They are unmarked and generally fly late at night. They are completely flat black in color and they show no identification whatsoever. The windows are tinted, preventing observers from seeing inside.

While sometimes seen in conventional traffic patterns, they commonly fly very low, just above treetop altitude, even over residential areas.

In a few ground sightings, the occupants of the helicopters have been described as men wearing black uniforms carrying automatic weapons.

Many people have linked them to the Men in Black who are connected to a New World order, UFO sightings and strange disappearances of humans.

Black helicopters have been reported all across the United States ...BUT MOSTLY IN THE GLASGOW MONTANA AREA :lol:

 

[flounder]

IN REPLY TO ;


BLACK HELICOPTERS


People sometimes report being observed or chased by black helicopters. They are unmarked and generally fly late at night. They are completely flat black in color and they show no identification whatsoever. The windows are tinted, preventing observers from seeing inside...SNIP...END


ACTUALLY, in the case of the USDA et al, from what maddave told me, they are not black helicopters, but GREEN suv's.
snipped below from mad dave louthan, the man who killed the first mad cow in the USA. ...TSS


"Men in Green"

Soon after Dave was laid off - what he calls "permanently laid off" on
Jan. 5th, he wanted to find out who cared about safe beef and started
passionately e-mailing over 200 USDA inspectors that the cow wasn't a
downer - one at time. Dave chuckled he wasn¹t aware of cut and paste at
the time, but he is now. Soon after Dave got a visit from a USDA agent - a
large one who repeatedly asked him to get into his green SUV and Dave
repeated said no but finally agreed after he asked if he had a gun and
the agent verified by opening his coat. The agent¹s first question Dave
contends was "'how much do you want? '" Dave got the agents name and cell
phone number and afterwards called every journalist he could find
regarding this incident. The NY Times verified the agent had visited Dave
and indeed two other USDA agents showed up later to get him to sign
disclaimer documents regarding the first visit to absolve the agent. Dave
refused to sign any documents and kept the papers and a log of their
names. Dave contends these agents were never interested in investigating
or his information but in keeping him silent. Dave said the USDA agents
only wrote down information when he was talking about them and never about
the holstein.
From then on Dave said he has seen the "Men in Green" less but he has
shown others the suspicious cars parked across the street, usually now
with two men sitting inside. The cars have changed to other colors but
Dave still believes they are out there. Dave related he never received an
appointment phone call from these USDA agents as a normal investigator
would inquire, just intimidating visits. .....snip...end...TSS

 

[frenchie]

IN REPLY TO ;


BLACK HELICOPTERS


People sometimes report being observed or chased by black helicopters. They are unmarked and generally fly late at night. They are completely flat black in color and they show no identification whatsoever. The windows are tinted, preventing observers from seeing inside...SNIP...END


ACTUALLY, in the case of the USDA et al, from what maddave told me, they are not black helicopters, but GREEN suv's.
snipped below from mad dave louthan, the man who killed the first mad cow in the USA. ...TSS


"Men in Green"

Soon after Dave was laid off - what he calls "permanently laid off" on
Jan. 5th, he wanted to find out who cared about safe beef and started
passionately e-mailing over 200 USDA inspectors that the cow wasn't a
downer - one at time. Dave chuckled he wasn¹t aware of cut and paste at
the time, but he is now. Soon after Dave got a visit from a USDA agent - a
large one who repeatedly asked him to get into his green SUV and Dave
repeated said no but finally agreed after he asked if he had a gun and
the agent verified by opening his coat. The agent¹s first question Dave
contends was "'how much do you want? '" Dave got the agents name and cell
phone number and afterwards called every journalist he could find
regarding this incident. The NY Times verified the agent had visited Dave
and indeed two other USDA agents showed up later to get him to sign
disclaimer documents regarding the first visit to absolve the agent. Dave
refused to sign any documents and kept the papers and a log of their
names. Dave contends these agents were never interested in investigating
or his information but in keeping him silent. Dave said the USDA agents
only wrote down information when he was talking about them and never about
the holstein.
From then on Dave said he has seen the "Men in Green" less but he has
shown others the suspicious cars parked across the street, usually now
with two men sitting inside. The cars have changed to other colors but
Dave still believes they are out there. Dave related he never received an
appointment phone call from these USDA agents as a normal investigator
would inquire, just intimidating visits. .....snip...end...TSS

Little green men everywhere....flying Black helicopters everywhere Where will it stop :roll: :lol:

 

[buckaroo_bif]

Got a neighbor that's so paranoid he swears he saw an airplane with a glass bottom window circling around over his farm. Of course it was filming his every move. :lol:

 

[WORANCH]

WOranch-- Do you Bangs vaccinate your replacement heifers? When the vet comes to Bangs vaccinate you will need to have it tagged and that tag # recorded on the bangs certificate-- in fact the certificates already have a spot on them for recording the tag numbers......

How about your bulls? Do you have them tested every year before breeding season?- you will need a tag in them before they are tested .....

Yes we vaccinate but the vet does not do it , the state has a rep do it .Again my understanding is if cattle are not moved you don't have to tag . But if we have to tag I don't see that big of a problem . We already id cows and calves and if they will bring more taged we will do it .
I don't really like it but it's coming , and it might help get M-COOL in place. Packers will run out of excuses.

WO ranch-- As far as I can read the original NAIS proposal, and as it has been explained to me- which is what the USDA is pushing for if they get their way- every "sighting" of your cattle will need to have an inspection recording- no matter if it is for a vaccination or if your cow crawls the fence and is called in for being outside its pasture..... Each of these inspections will cost the owner- how much?- no one knows.....

My local vet has said that if he has to buy the computer and reader equipment and hire someone to do the additional paperwork required under the law that he would be looking at a price of $10 per head just for the health inspections because of the time and cost involved- and around here vets are few and far between, so you can't shop around....

My cattle have been IDed for 40+ years - eartag and brands-- but I don't think you realize what a costly bureaucracy is being created with this new ID proposal....

As far as M-COOL is concerned-- every bit of beef and all live cattle coming into the US today is already identified and marked as to country of origin--but the packers/ retailers are still cutting off the labels ( or disregarding them) and relabeling with a USDA inspected stamp and passing it off to unknowing US consumers as US product.....

M-ID doesn't guarantee the Packers/retailers will pass any info on to consumers- or back to producers......

From what I've read on the NAIS web site and was told at the 2 meetings I have attended ,I will not have to tag until I sell or move cattle off my farm . If a cow gets out on to my neighbor or one of his on me we will just put them back like we always have.
For people who can't or won't tag their calves the sale barns will tag them and enter the information for the seller . I'm sure you will have to pay a fee for the service.

Anything the goverment does will be a costly bureaucracy .

 

[stocky]

I dont know about other states, but in Missouri and Arkansas, every adult cow that goes through any sales barn is identified. If the cow was calfhood vaccinated, she will have an eartag and a tattoo number in her ear. If she does not have that, the sales barn is required by law to put a metal ID tag in her ear and record it. Every cow, for slaughter or to go back to the farm, is bled and recorded as to who brought her to the sale. Every cow can be traced through this ID system through every sale barn she has come through and who sold her. There is a small percentage that have lost their tags, this will happen with any tag ID system. Until there are laws to protect the cattle owners from blame for an animal's history if that owner did nothing wrong, it is assinine to mandate a time consuming, expensive ID tracking system. If there is a cow with a problem, every past owner of that cow will face bankrupting costs to clear his or her name, even if they had nothing to do with causing the problem. Until the liberal courts are reined in, and I dont believe that will ever happen, the people who are pushing the ID programs are asking every cattleman to potentially go bankrupt from something they did not do. But that is the whole purpose of the programs, government control of everything you do and push the independent people and independent decisions out of the business. Be careful what you wish for and if you get it, dont ask for pity if you are blamed for something that wasnt your fault and you spend everything you have trying to clear your name or fight off lawsuits over an animal that you did not contribute to it's problems.

 

[memanpa]

oldtimer
correct me if i am wrong
a BRAND is used to prove ownership? not indentifcation!
are your eartags so unique that no one else could ever have them?

let me give you a possible scenero that FAULTS your claim that
your cattle are traceable back to you, keep in mind that this is only a possible situation!

1: you sell a cow calf pair (branded tagged and inspected to an out of state buyer)

2: out of state buyer crosses 3 state lines (LEAGALLY) and arrives at his/her destination never rebranded

3: said cow/calf pair escapes and wonders into a different county and is found by someone who keeps them for a while and that person sells them to private treaty no inspection

4: the new owner smiles when they notice the brand on the animal is the same as thiers they remove the eartag replace it with ther own at this point traceability is lost is it not?
not saying this happened just saying it could happen so your traceability with brand and eartag is FAULTED

BRANDS are only proof of ownership in a specific local ONLY, not from state to state!!