BSE trail goes cold

[cmjust0]

I would like you to point out where I told you "what to do".

By pushing for NAIS, you're telling me -- and other Americans -- how we should want our government to operate.

I also would ask you this question - Does it concern you where the animal progeny ended up? Does it concern you that no one knows where this cow came from? Does it concern you that it cannot be traced?

The argument for NAIS is that a BSE outbreak will kill the industry... We just had a case confirmed.. Did the world come crashing down, like the USDA has been saying it would? No. Do I care where this cow came from? Sure. Am I willing to give up my right to privacy and my right as a human being to raise my own food without government permission to find out where it came from? No, I'm not. What you seem to forget is that NAIS does *NOT* just affect the beef industry. It affects anyone who raises livestock, regardless of it's intended use. I, for one (maybe the ONLY one here), care about the kid who won't be able to raise a goat for 4H because his/her parents don't want to have to cut through the red tape of NAIS.. I also care about the little old lady down the road who will soon be a lawbreaker, because she raises half a dozen brown egg layers for her own amusement... But, AGAIN, what do you care?? You're Canadian. None of that means anything to you, because you don't have to deal with the 'side effects' of something like NAIS.. You only see the benefit, so you push for it.. Here in the states, we call that SELFISH.. What do you call it up there??

I think I also stated that "good people need to address this issue" or I fear it will be imposed upon you.

Well, I'm a good person and a good American, so I'm addressing NAIS that it might not be imposed upon me and everyone else.. How ironic that you do nothing but complain about that..

Does that mean on an open and international board I cannot discuss this issue? Or are you afraid of what YOU might discover when you look for answers?

Well, you won't find me blathering on about Canadian laws or proposals, because I wouldn't be such so naive or selfish or egotistical as to believe that I had any right to do so.. BUT, that's just me.

Does this cause you to believe I am interfering in your rights?
How?
In fact I believe I also stated I hold no anvil over anyones head.

You're not interfering with my rights -- you're just trying to exercise rights that you don't have.. Furthermore, you don't have to tell me that you're not holding an anvil over my head -- you couldn't if you WANTED to.. For you to think that you even COULD hold an anvil over my head when it comes to matters of US Law is just another illustration of whatever delusion from which you apparently suffer.. Let me remind you again: You're Canadian, and as such, you don't get a say on NAIS. Period.

Therefore - if you are prepared to hide your head in the sand, you will have this imposed - by YOUR own elected government.

Thanks, Mr. Obvious. You're a real life saver. :lol: Why do you think I'm speaking out against NAIS, genius? :roll:

If you are frightened that there are people out there who have knowledge and capability and a willingness to get involved - but are not citizens - then you are part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

NAIS is part of the problem, and is certainly not the solution. It might solve some of YOUR problems, but not mine.. Luckily for me, I'm an American, so I get a say. And, luckily for ME again, you're not, so you don't.

Remember, there is a fiscal loss or gain to your community - to close all the doors and look only inward is not going to make this go away.

This is not all about fiscal losses and gains -- it's about freedom. It's about privacy. It's about not having to request government permission to raise a damned chicken. But, AGAIN (and again, and again, and again :shock: ) you're not subject to US Law, so you have no reason to care about any of that, do you?? You don't have to deal with *ALL* of the consequences of NAIS, do you?? No, no, no... You just get to enjoy some 'fiscal' benefit, as ever more of OUR rights go down the toilet..

No sir.. Not without a fight. Until you move to the US and put yourself in a position to reap *EVERYTHING* you're working so hard to sow, I'll contest you every single step of the way.. Bank on it.

What ARE YOU DOING to make this situation better - other than complaining to your buddies over coffee?

I'm working to raise awareness about NAIS, and I've found that about 90% of the people I talk to -- in person -- here in the states are OPPOSED to it. Many of them are crusty old cattlemen, too.

Try to answer all the questions - and remember - sometimes you might have friends in places that you least expect.

I think I answered all your questions, but I'm sure you'll let me know.. And, it's funny you should mention friends, because I had the opportunity to talk with an old friend of mine the other day about NAIS.. His dad is a State Representative.. My friend didn't know anything about NAIS, but boy he does now. He told me he'd talk to his dad about it, too, cause he didn't know how up to speed his dad was on the whole thing. That good enough for ya? You're right, you never know where you'll run into a friend.

In closing - Where have I attempted to take your "rights" away?

In closing, again, you couldn't take my rights away if you wanted to. They're gauranteed by the U.S. Constitution. The only ones who can take my rights away are legislators, and I'm working pretty hard to make sure that doesn't happen..

(P.S. -- Judging by all the opposition springing up outside this little corner of the internet, *I'm winning*. )

 

[cmjust0]

Do you supose those Canadian producers have listned to a couple of Americans and American organasations tell them how to run THERE beef industry when bse was found?????????

If they did, and if that 'advice' resulted in a bloated, expensive, biased, rights-curtailing, ineptly-run, government mandated tracking system, then that's their problem... Don't come down on me just because I'm not fool enough to fall for it.

Do you ever think maybe we should be ASKING for there advice?

Nope.

Does Japan think there system is a big joke as OT thinks?

Japan wants mandatory carcass testing, which is -- BY FAR -- the most effective way to safegaurd humans againt BSE.. Coincidentally, it would have the least effect on small cattle producers. But, the USDA won't even allow such a thing until Tyson/Smithfield/Swift/Etc. give them the greenlight. That's documented, too.

You an OT go ahead and brand your cattle and convince the world that they are better but I will tag mine along with the majoraty and hope it works as good as the Canadian system and hopefully it will be better since we can LEARN from there mistakes.

Ready for a shocker?? I don't own any cattle yet. I'm still building fences and facilities! "Well then," you ask, "what gives you the right to moan and groan about NAIS?" Because I have a farm, and because I plan to have several different types of animals on my farm -- ALL of which subject me to the consequences of NAIS.. People on this forum tend to forget that, and I think it's pretty selfish of them honestly..

Look, if NAIS was designed to only affected animals which were intended for the commercial food supply, I would at least then have the option of simply saying 'eff raising cattle,' and just keeping animals for my own consumption without interference from the government.. BUT, the USDA & Co., Inc. hasn't allowed for that.. So, I'm in the fight, like it or not.

It is really sad when all people care to do is try to belittle the Canadian system when we as a country can not trace the Alabama cow back past the sale barn where she was sold a year ago.

I'm not belittling the Canadian system... If they like it, fine. That's their deal, NAIS is ours. Unlike some of our Canadian "friends" here, I have zero interest in getting involved with THEIR politics.

I do not want to stay with a system that works that way and I hope all the naysayers do not hinder the transition to something better!

Something better = carcass testing.. The only groups hindering that are the USDA and the meatpacking industry, even as the consumer stands at the door with money in their hands.. If you *really* want something better, and you *really* want to stop people from hindering the transition TO something better, then you'll get behind carcass testing, and say NO to NAIS and to the meatpacking lobby who would have *you* pay for it..

 

[Bama]

Our friendly neighbors to the north have been there done that. I for one listen very closely to what they like and what they dislike about the system. I don't nesscessarly have to agree with them nor them me. I do put a lot of merit in their words. The world is changing. If we don't change with it we will be sitting alone in our own shrinking sandbox.

 

[Bez!]

I would like you to point out where I told you "what to do".

By pushing for NAIS, you're telling me -- and other Americans -- how we should want our government to operate.

I also would ask you this question - Does it concern you where the animal progeny ended up? Does it concern you that no one knows where this cow came from? Does it concern you that it cannot be traced?

The argument for NAIS is that a BSE outbreak will kill the industry... We just had a case confirmed.. Did the world come crashing down, like the USDA has been saying it would? No. Do I care where this cow came from? Sure. Am I willing to give up my right to privacy and my right as a human being to raise my own food without government permission to find out where it came from? No, I'm not. What you seem to forget is that NAIS does *NOT* just affect the beef industry. It affects anyone who raises livestock, regardless of it's intended use. I, for one (maybe the ONLY one here), care about the kid who won't be able to raise a goat for 4H because his/her parents don't want to have to cut through the red tape of NAIS.. I also care about the little old lady down the road who will soon be a lawbreaker, because she raises half a dozen brown egg layers for her own amusement... But, AGAIN, what do you care?? You're Canadian. None of that means anything to you, because you don't have to deal with the 'side effects' of something like NAIS.. You only see the benefit, so you push for it.. Here in the states, we call that SELFISH.. What do you call it up there??

I think I also stated that "good people need to address this issue" or I fear it will be imposed upon you.

Well, I'm a good person and a good American, so I'm addressing NAIS that it might not be imposed upon me and everyone else.. How ironic that you do nothing but complain about that..

Does that mean on an open and international board I cannot discuss this issue? Or are you afraid of what YOU might discover when you look for answers?

Well, you won't find me blathering on about Canadian laws or proposals, because I wouldn't be such so naive or selfish or egotistical as to believe that I had any right to do so.. BUT, that's just me.

Does this cause you to believe I am interfering in your rights?
How?
In fact I believe I also stated I hold no anvil over anyones head.

You're not interfering with my rights -- you're just trying to exercise rights that you don't have.. Furthermore, you don't have to tell me that you're not holding an anvil over my head -- you couldn't if you WANTED to.. For you to think that you even COULD hold an anvil over my head when it comes to matters of US Law is just another illustration of whatever delusion from which you apparently suffer.. Let me remind you again: You're Canadian, and as such, you don't get a say on NAIS. Period.

Therefore - if you are prepared to hide your head in the sand, you will have this imposed - by YOUR own elected government.

Thanks, Mr. Obvious. You're a real life saver. :lol: Why do you think I'm speaking out against NAIS, genius? :roll:

If you are frightened that there are people out there who have knowledge and capability and a willingness to get involved - but are not citizens - then you are part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

NAIS is part of the problem, and is certainly not the solution. It might solve some of YOUR problems, but not mine.. Luckily for me, I'm an American, so I get a say. And, luckily for ME again, you're not, so you don't.

Remember, there is a fiscal loss or gain to your community - to close all the doors and look only inward is not going to make this go away.

This is not all about fiscal losses and gains -- it's about freedom. It's about privacy. It's about not having to request government permission to raise a damned chicken. But, AGAIN (and again, and again, and again :shock: ) you're not subject to US Law, so you have no reason to care about any of that, do you?? You don't have to deal with *ALL* of the consequences of NAIS, do you?? No, no, no... You just get to enjoy some 'fiscal' benefit, as ever more of OUR rights go down the toilet..

No sir.. Not without a fight. Until you move to the US and put yourself in a position to reap *EVERYTHING* you're working so hard to sow, I'll contest you every single step of the way.. Bank on it.

What ARE YOU DOING to make this situation better - other than complaining to your buddies over coffee?

I'm working to raise awareness about NAIS, and I've found that about 90% of the people I talk to -- in person -- here in the states are OPPOSED to it. Many of them are crusty old cattlemen, too.

Try to answer all the questions - and remember - sometimes you might have friends in places that you least expect.

I think I answered all your questions, but I'm sure you'll let me know.. And, it's funny you should mention friends, because I had the opportunity to talk with an old friend of mine the other day about NAIS.. His dad is a State Representative.. My friend didn't know anything about NAIS, but boy he does now. He told me he'd talk to his dad about it, too, cause he didn't know how up to speed his dad was on the whole thing. That good enough for ya? You're right, you never know where you'll run into a friend.

In closing - Where have I attempted to take your "rights" away?

In closing, again, you couldn't take my rights away if you wanted to. They're gauranteed by the U.S. Constitution. The only ones who can take my rights away are legislators, and I'm working pretty hard to make sure that doesn't happen..

(P.S. -- Judging by all the opposition springing up outside this little corner of the internet, *I'm winning*. )

I know you are in the building mode - we have chatted in the past. You were far more cordial then than now and did not call me names.

I guess I am off your Christmas Card list. When I am in Kentucky next week I will not suggest we get together for a coffee. :lol:

I honestly believe you have taken the attack to me because you think I am tinkering in your system. In fact I am letting you know that there will be lots of tinkering by your own folks.

Whatever system comes to your door - there will be some who will be very unhappy.

I also have enough experience in this to know there will be problems that can be prevented. In fact - come to think of it - in order to be open and transparent in our decision making some of your folks came up here from - yes - R-CALF and USDA.

We listened to them. We did not always agree with them but we listened. Their inputs did help a lot - it allowed us to see what we were prepared to do and what we were not prepared to do.

Because of this and a whole bunch of input - our system is producer driven. NOT federal government driven. Does that at least lower your blood pressure a little bit? It should - but then again you have called me a genius at least once.

Somehow I do not think it was meant in a literal sense though.

All you have to do is look outside the box and .... well, perhaps realize that there are ways to do things. And there are - dare I repeat myself - friends in unusual places.

But you might want to reduce the size of the chip on your shoulder - just a little bit or the offers of help from others who have been there tend to walk away.

If you believe this is an attempt to attack your rights - those guaranteed by the constitution - well, I do not agree with you.

I do not think I am presenting opposition to you and your beliefs - as for winning - well that will be determined in the future - some folks will be happy and some folks will not.

Interesting that you do not believe I have the right to express an opinion on an open board. Do we not all have that right?

There are folks from all over the world here - your anger directed towards me and another poster simply indicates you will continue to look inward. Thus allowing various other countries to continue to take your markets. Ours have grown in leaps and bounds and continue to do so.

I have not complained about your opinion and I have not expressed a desire to "sow" anything. I have simply asked some questions and found that I can stir someone up without even trying.

In the end - the single important fact that has been missed by your sarcasm - You had a sick cow in your country - it cannot be traced - there may be more. They may have entered the food chain. I would like to believe you would like to ensure this does not happen again.

What is your solution to the problem? Or do you think it is best to simply ignore it and say it never happened?

Have a good one,

Bez!

 

[Texan]

The Canucks on these Boards are some of the finest cattle producers I know of. And the finest people. Always willing and eager to help a neighbor. Even neighbors in another country. The advice they have given over the years is priceless. Advice given generously, with no regard as to someone's country of origin.

They've been down this ID road ahead of us. How foolish not to listen to them. We can all consider ourselves fortunate to have their advice. Even more fortunate are those of us who can count them as friends. What an embarrassing dammn shame it's been to read this crap....

 

[frenchie]

SO... The way I figure it, if you're a Canadian with a business interest in the US Beef industry, you've got three options: 1) Move here officially and have your say, or 2) Get rid of your interest in the US beef industry, or 3) Keep your trap shut and watch from the sidelines.

Ain,t going to happen...As long as R-calf Is flapping their mouths about Canuk cattle.

 

[frenchie]

Japan wants mandatory carcass testing, which is -- BY FAR -- the most effective way to safegaurd humans againt BSE.. Coincidentally, it would have the least effect on small cattle producers. But, the USDA won't even allow such a thing until Tyson/Smithfield/Swift/Etc. give them the greenlight. That's documented, too.
.

Testing in no way 100% quarentees the meat is not infected with b.s.e

 

[memanpa]

just because an animal is branded does not mean good traceability because a brand is not a trademark, different owners in different states can and do have the same brand yet be totally unaware of each other.
what about multiple brands? seller has animal inspected for shipment out of state under one brand, all well and good.
new owner decides to sell a few months later to someone in a totally different state, different brand, etc etc so having a brand is not a good way of identifying.
my oklahoma brand is different from my az brand, someone in az had my ok brand prior to my wanting it. i occasionally ship stock from ok to az and vice versa, yes they are inspected when they come in from ok i do not always brand them in az.
getting the idea about a brand NOT being a good tool for identifcation ???

 

[cmjust0]

I know you are in the building mode - we have chatted in the past. You were far more cordial then than now and did not call me names.

I guess I am off your Christmas Card list. When I am in Kentucky next week I will not suggest we get together for a coffee.

You weren't trying to run my country then, and I don't drink coffee.. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously, though, there's little doubt in my mind that if the two of us met in person, we'd have more in common than not. I'd still give you a real hard time over NAIS, but.... Things tend to seem more harsh when read versus heard, put it that way.

I honestly believe you have taken the attack to me because you think I am tinkering in your system. In fact I am letting you know that there will be lots of tinkering by your own folks.

Whatever system comes to your door - there will be some who will be very unhappy.

I already know that people are tinkering with NAIS, and that it's not going to come out any better for it. That's why as active as I am with this issue.

See, you're clearly convinced that a mandatory animal ID and surveillance system WILL come to the US, whereas I'm not. I think there are other solutions, like carcass testing.. I also think that NAIS has been *designed* to be a hardship for the small producer, in an effort to streamline the production of food in the US.. That's not something I want to see happen.

I also have enough experience in this to know there will be problems that can be prevented. In fact - come to think of it - in order to be open and transparent in our decision making some of your folks came up here from - yes - R-CALF and USDA.

I keep hearing R-CALF come up, and I feel it's important to point out that I'm not a member.. I've also heard several times that I shouldn't keep "looking inward" and so on, which suggests that I'm seen as somebody who wants to shut the borders down and keep them shut.. That's not the case. My opposition to NAIS has *zero, zilch, nada* to do with keeping borders closed. My opposition stems entirely from the erosion of personal liberties and privacy in the United States today.. I see NAIS as an enemy of freedom. That's all. Don't confuse the issue..

We listened to them. We did not always agree with them but we listened. Their inputs did help a lot - it allowed us to see what we were prepared to do and what we were not prepared to do.

Well, it seems that you at least you got to have some input, Bez!.. NAIS has kinda just been sprung on a lot of us, without any input at all.. Those which will be affected have not had fair representation. The only input that's been considered has been the input of the meatpacking industry, who basically wrote the doggone thing.

Because of this and a whole bunch of input - our system is producer driven. NOT federal government driven. Does that at least lower your blood pressure a little bit? It should - but then again you have called me a genius at least once.

Somehow I do not think it was meant in a literal sense though.

No, it wasn't meant literally. :lol: It was another one of those "read vs. heard" things, I think..

Anyway, of course a producer driven system would lower my BP.. I've said before that I wouldn't be NEARLY as concerned over NAIS if it didn't apply to people who aren't producing for the marketplace. But, it does.

Quite frankly, the more you describe your own system (fair input considered, producer driven, transparent planning and implementation, etc) the more clear it becomes that your own system is NOTHING like NAIS, save the fact that it deals with animal ID..

What I'm trying to get across to you is that the NAIS debate in the US isn't just about ID'ing or not ID'ing animals.. It's about rights, freedoms, and priveleges afforded by the US Constitution...

If it were only about animal ID and wasn't going to curtail a bunch of rights, I wouldn't even mention the fact that you're Canadian.

I dunno how much more clear I can make that point..

All you have to do is look outside the box and .... well, perhaps realize that there are ways to do things. And there are - dare I repeat myself - friends in unusual places.

But you might want to reduce the size of the chip on your shoulder - just a little bit or the offers of help from others who have been there tend to walk away.

I am thinking outside the box.. The box, as far as I can see, is the thought that NAIS is the answer, and that we should just focus on tweaking it.. I refuse to believe that.

And, again, if we met in person, we'd walk away as friends. You might not believe this, but I'm actually a pretty nice guy.. I just hate it when people stand idly by and watch our rights go down the toilet... I guess it especially galls me to think that someone who won't even suffer *all* the consequences wants to help flush.

If you believe this is an attempt to attack your rights - those guaranteed by the constitution - well, I do not agree with you.

I do not think I am presenting opposition to you and your beliefs - as for winning - well that will be determined in the future - some folks will be happy and some folks will not.

I feel like you're not presenting opposition only because you CAN'T present opposition, legally speaking. I also feel like, if you were given a vote, you'd vote in favor of NAIS -- though, again, you wouldn't suffer all the consequences.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what's riling me about this whole thing.. I don't think you're simply standing back, offering tips and suggestions, but that you're pushing the agenda.

Interesting that you do not believe I have the right to express an opinion on an open board. Do we not all have that right?

There are folks from all over the world here - your anger directed towards me and another poster simply indicates you will continue to look inward. Thus allowing various other countries to continue to take your markets. Ours have grown in leaps and bounds and continue to do so.

Again, i'm not looking inward, outward, or sideways.. I'm looking square at the US government . I don't really care if the borders are open or closed -- what I care about is the old lady up the road with half a dozen laying hens who's about to become a criminal, and doesn't even know it.

I don't know if there's any way for me to make you understand that, but that's how I feel.

I have not complained about your opinion and I have not expressed a desire to "sow" anything. I have simply asked some questions and found that I can stir someone up without even trying.

C'mon, Bez.. That's not true and you know it. Please spare me the "I'm over here minding my own business" routine. :roll: You've demonstrated that you believe NAIS to be a good idea, which means that you have more than just unbiased advice -- you've got an agenda.

In the end - the single important fact that has been missed by your sarcasm - You had a sick cow in your country - it cannot be traced - there may be more. They may have entered the food chain. I would like to believe you would like to ensure this does not happen again.

What is your solution to the problem? Or do you think it is best to simply ignore it and say it never happened?

What I'm interested in ensuring is the continuation of family farms, the retention of rights and freedoms, and the safety of the American people.

For my money, carcass testing accomplishes those goals.. NAIS doesn't.

Have a good one,

Bez!

You too!

 

[cmjust0]

Testing in no way 100% quarentees the meat is not infected with b.s.e

...and NAIS does?? :roll:

Anyway, how do you figure that testing doesn't gaurantee the meat? Because it was misdiagnosed in one cow as a result of governmental ineptitude??

 

[cmjust0]

They've been down this ID road ahead of us. How foolish not to listen to them. We can all consider ourselves fortunate to have their advice. Even more fortunate are those of us who can count them as friends. What an embarrassing dammn shame it's been to read this crap....

They've not been down this road... Go back and read more of what Bez! wrote.. Their system is producer driven, cattle producers had a say in it, it was planned and implemented transparently, etc... That's anything but similar to NAIS.

 

[Oldtimer]

getting the idea about a brand NOT being a good tool for identifcation ???

What do you suggest we do with the 5-15% of animals that yearly lose their RFID tags or that become unreadable?...The pilot program conducted by MSU last year ended up with something like 15-20% unverifiable after one year- without a brand... Without a hot iron brand you have no idea where they came from or who they belong to....

 

[cmjust0]

What do you suggest we do with the 5-15% of animals that yearly lose their RFID tags or that become unreadable

Especially when you don't even know they're unreadable until you get them to the salebarn.. The only solution would be to buy or borrow a reader and scan your herd every so often.. Great for the small farmer, huh?

Something else of interest was an article I read the other day about the potential for RFID virus code.. They said all it takes is for someone to write a very simple checksum error program and feed it to one RFID tag.. Once scanned, it's possible for the reader to pass that virus on to all the other RFID tags it scans.

Imagine hauling a load of cattle to the salebarn, and having them call you back saying they don't know which cattle belong to whom.. You'd have to go back and find all your cattle, unless somebody 'found' your better cattle and claimed them before you got there.. :shock:

 

[Oldtimer]

What do you suggest we do with the 5-15% of animals that yearly lose their RFID tags or that become unreadable

Especially when you don't even know they're unreadable until you get them to the salebarn.. The only solution would be to buy or borrow a reader and scan your herd every so often.. Great for the small farmer, huh?

Something else of interest was an article I read the other day about the potential for RFID virus code.. They said all it takes is for someone to write a very simple checksum error program and feed it to one RFID tag.. Once scanned, it's possible for the reader to pass that virus on to all the other RFID tags it scans.

Imagine hauling a load of cattle to the salebarn, and having them call you back saying they don't know which cattle belong to whom.. You'd have to go back and find all your cattle, unless somebody 'found' your better cattle and claimed them before you got there.. :shock:

I'll add one more thing about the sale barns--What happens when you run 40 head into the ring- but the computer reader only reads 38? How long are they going to spend finding the missing or nonworking tagged ones? Or when the buyer splits the sort and only takes 10?

Guess who's going to pay the added cost for the time, manpower, and computer equipment at the sales barns?

 

[Oldtimer]

The Canucks on these Boards are some of the finest cattle producers I know of. And the finest people. Always willing and eager to help a neighbor. Even neighbors in another country. The advice they have given over the years is priceless. Advice given generously, with no regard as to someone's country of origin.

They've been down this ID road ahead of us. How foolish not to listen to them. We can all consider ourselves fortunate to have their advice. Even more fortunate are those of us who can count them as friends. What an embarrassing dammn shame it's been to read this crap....

Texan- I'll bet I have more Canadian friends than you- that I talk to on a daily or weekly basis....I live 50 miles from the border- run cows close to the border- and I've discussed the same issues with many of them ( often over an afternoon drink)- so I know what their system will do and what it won't do...It is not anywhere like the USDA's proposed NAIS system...Maybe they plan to go there someday- but they don't have it now....I agree we can learn from their problems, but those I have talked to are not as enthusiastic about, nor do they speak as good about its working ability as those that have posted here....


But those in Saskatchewan at least have their brands to fall back on- as 20 years ago they came to Montana/ and we sent inspectors north to work with them so they could model much of their system after ours ;-)

 

[frenchie]

Testing in no way 100% quarentees the meat is not infected with b.s.e

...and NAIS does?? :roll: ??

Did I say N.A.I.S did . ;-)

Anyway, how do you figure that testing doesn't gaurantee the meat? Because it was misdiagnosed in one cow as a result of governmental ineptitude??

The current range of tests being used are designed to pick up B.s.e in animals over 20 months or older.The majority of slaughter feeder cattle are under that in age.

 

[frenchie]

They've been down this ID road ahead of us. How foolish not to listen to them. We can all consider ourselves fortunate to have their advice. Even more fortunate are those of us who can count them as friends. What an embarrassing dammn shame it's been to read this crap....

They've not been down this road... Go back and read more of what Bez! wrote.. Their system is producer driven, cattle producers had a say in it, it was planned and implemented transparently, etc... That's anything but similar to NAIS.

Producer driven..federally enforced mandatory i.d program.

 

[frenchie]

What do you suggest we do with the 5-15% of animals that yearly lose their RFID tags or that become unreadable

Especially when you don't even know they're unreadable until you get them to the salebarn.. The only solution would be to buy or borrow a reader and scan your herd every so often.. Great for the small farmer, huh?

.Can,t be hard to tell them apart ,when you only have 2 head :roll: .

Something else of interest was an article I read the other day about the potential for RFID virus code.. They said all it takes is for someone to write a very simple checksum error program and feed it to one RFID tag.. Once scanned, it's possible for the reader to pass that virus on to all the other RFID tags it s

That article was a hoax....it uses a total differerent system to read tags.Oie, the ignorance of this article is astounding. First, most RFID tags do not have RAM (Random Access Memory), but rather ROM (Read Only Memory). The memory and programs contained by the RFID tag must be "burned" into the chip, something is IMPOSSIBLE to do with a scanner, which can only READ, not transmit.

 

[frenchie]

The Canucks on these Boards are some of the finest cattle producers I know of. And the finest people. Always willing and eager to help a neighbor. Even neighbors in another country. The advice they have given over the years is priceless. Advice given generously, with no regard as to someone's country of origin.

They've been down this ID road ahead of us. How foolish not to listen to them. We can all consider ourselves fortunate to have their advice. Even more fortunate are those of us who can count them as friends. What an embarrassing dammn shame it's been to read this crap....

Texan- I'll bet I have more Canadian friends than you- ....

:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: Ot I think I hear your Shrink calling. :lol: :lol: :lol:

But those in Saskatchewan at least have their brands to fall back on- as 20 years ago they came to Montana/ and we sent inspectors north to work with them so they could model much of their system after ours ;-)

Tell me Ot is it the law for everyone to brand in Montana

 

[Oldtimer]

What do you suggest we do with the 5-15% of animals that yearly lose their RFID tags or that become unreadable

Especially when you don't even know they're unreadable until you get them to the salebarn.. The only solution would be to buy or borrow a reader and scan your herd every so often.. Great for the small farmer, huh?

.Can,t be hard to tell them apart ,when you only have 2 head :roll: .

Something else of interest was an article I read the other day about the potential for RFID virus code.. They said all it takes is for someone to write a very simple checksum error program and feed it to one RFID tag.. Once scanned, it's possible for the reader to pass that virus on to all the other RFID tags it s

That article was a hoax....it uses a total differerent system to read tags.Oie, the ignorance of this article is astounding. First, most RFID tags do not have RAM (Random Access Memory), but rather ROM (Read Only Memory). The memory and programs contained by the RFID tag must be "burned" into the chip, something is IMPOSSIBLE to do with a scanner, which can only READ, not transmit.

One of the problems they have found in using bolus's is that after a few years if you insert a new bolus the reader will read the new bolus instead of the original- making it unreliable for establishing ownership....Also the current RFID tags being used in the pilot programs are showing up with many unreadables after a time period.......