BSE trail goes cold

[Oldtimer]

frenchie-Tell me Ot is it the law for everyone to brand in Montana

No-but if they are running estray with no proof of ownership (hot iron brand) they can be/are taken up and sold as property of the state of Montana....

 

[cmjust0]

.Can,t be hard to tell them apart ,when you only have 2 head .

It's not about telling them apart... :roll: It's a question about what happens after you get your cattle to the sale barn and find that they don't scan.. Assuming they're scanned as they come off the trailer, you're left loading them back up, taking them back home, retagging, probably quarantining until the government gets around to verifying whatever paperwork has to be filed on a re-tag, etc etc.. Then, you get to go back to the salebarn and hope the new tag 'took.'

Heaven forbid some poor shmuck would wind up with a whole batch of tags that are no good for one reason or another.. Can't say it won't happen, though..

That article was a hoax....it uses a total differerent system to read tags

Show me where it was a hoax.. It's been debated, and there are a lot of RFID proponents who doubt that RFID virii will be a problem, but that doesn't make it a hoax.. Heck, NAIS is being debated, but that doesn't make IT a hoax does it??

 

[cmjust0]

The current range of tests being used are designed to pick up B.s.e in animals over 20 months or older.The majority of slaughter feeder cattle are under that in age.

Oh, and we're at the final frontier of testing are we?? :roll:

Maybe 'we' could spend some of the wasted NAIS money to develop a faster, cheaper, more accurate BSE test..

(I use the term 'we' very loosely there, given that we're not talking about 'our' taxdollars -- we're talking about *MY* taxdollars.. You being Canadian and all.)

 

[Oldtimer]

The current range of tests being used are designed to pick up B.s.e in animals over 20 months or older.The majority of slaughter feeder cattle are under that in age.

Oh, and we're at the final frontier of testing are we?? :roll:

Maybe 'we' could spend some of the wasted NAIS money to develop a faster, cheaper, more accurate BSE test..

(I use the term 'we' very loosely there, given that we're not talking about 'our' taxdollars -- we're talking about *MY* taxdollars.. You being Canadian and all.)

frenchie- how about the older cattle... Japan has indicated that they will take cattle of ALL ages if tested.......

 

[cmjust0]

Producer driven..federally enforced mandatory i.d program.

Do you guys have to register your farms for satellite surveillance and get government permission to own a goat, chicken, pig, sheep, etc. -- even your own consumption??

 

[bwflonghorns]

After hearing the news over and over..blah blah blah "we would not have this issue if we had a national tracking system" . Sounds like a "wag the dog" plot to garner support for this ridiculous idea.. :shock:

An interesting thing came to light this week in Texas.. you know Texas just chomping at the bit to get this ID crap on track.. "you are NOT required to have health papers on your animals" at shows, sales, events in Texas..." Excuse me.....We still have TB in this state. Does that make sense? Cost the rancher a zillion bucks to microchip your critters so we can track and stop spread of disease..BUT... dont bother TB testing your animals before you "comingle" your animals with others. :shock: :x :?:

 

[Oldtimer]

Cost the rancher a zillion bucks to microchip your critters so we can track and stop spread of disease..BUT... dont bother TB testing your animals before you "comingle" your animals with others. :shock: :x :?:

Another thing that always makes me laugh when the government brings up the spread of disease issue-- Why are we still allowing thousands of illegal aliens daily, many of which are coming from FMD infected areas, to liesurely walk across our borders-- not knowing what infections they have on their shoes and clothing or what infected food they may be carrying with them?

Like you say- its OK for government to force producers to pay an arm and leg to track their animals, but don't require that government to actually do anything that could stop that disease spread ;-) :lol: :lol:

 

[rk]

After hearing the news over and over..blah blah blah "we would not have this issue if we had a national tracking system" . Sounds like a "wag the dog" plot to garner support for this ridiculous idea.. :shock:

An interesting thing came to light this week in Texas.. you know Texas just chomping at the bit to get this ID crap on track.. "you are NOT required to have health papers on your animals" at shows, sales, events in Texas..." Excuse me.....We still have TB in this state. Does that make sense? Cost the rancher a zillion bucks to microchip your critters so we can track and stop spread of disease..BUT... dont bother TB testing your animals before you "comingle" your animals with others. :shock: :x :?:

Microchip?????? Zillion Bucks?????

 

[cmjust0]

Microchip?????? Zillion Bucks?????

Have you seen a figure on how much the tags will cost?? I haven't. The official FAQ on NAIS doesn't even give a ballpark.

Besides, even if they're $10, or $5, or even $1, it's still money and effort that will cut into a lot of cattle raisers' bottom lines.

 

[Oldtimer]

Microchip?????? Zillion Bucks?????

Have you seen a figure on how much the tags will cost?? I haven't. The official FAQ on NAIS doesn't even give a ballpark.

Besides, even if they're $10, or $5, or even $1, it's still money and effort that will cut into a lot of cattle raisers' bottom lines.

The Australian government (which we're supposedly modeling our system after) estimates the cost to be at $35 per head- and it still isn't working.....I saw the other day where they allocated another $20 million or so to try to fix it.....

 

[bwflonghorns]

The costs will vary by herd size.. for two reasons.. if you are a huge feedlot (like Monfort, etc) you will be allowed one tag # for one year, if you are not one of the "big dogs" you will need to tags or chips, the applicator and the computer and software to report to the gov. WHen I say report.. or kid takes your horse for a ride down the road.. you will report when she left, where she went.. I mean EVERYWHERE and when she came back. Or you take you prize cow to a show.. fisrt u take her to the vet for health papers.. u will report when u left, where u went and when u got back.. etc.. they want ALL movement of animals reported.. Sound a little "Orwellian" ? Ok.. so I got off track.. Kansas State University "projects" the following cost

1. $3.43 for a herd of 1250 animals.. this would be one tag, for one year annual $4287.50
2. $13.22 per head for a herd of 125 animals, or $1652.50
3. $24.10 per head for a herd of 62 animals, or $1494.20
4. $70.89 per head for a herd of 20 aniamls, or $1417.80
5. $138.22 per head for a herd of 10 aniamls, or $1382.20

Remember cost is based on what you need to apply the tag or chip, and the tag or chip itself, and the computer and software needed as well as the wand to read the tag,chip. You will need that with 1 animal or 10000.

It is also my understanding that even 1 family with 1 cow/steer (they plan on eating or is a kids 4H animal) will have to do this.

People really need to read up on this, it is ridiclous

It was estimated that a rancher with 100 heifers would report information on those heifers in a season to the tune of 1.5 hours per day (averaged .. more like 10 hours here, 10 there, etc)

Lawsuits have also been filed as this debacle is in violation of 5 of our Constitutional rights.

The real reason for this thing? Big producers need to export.. they cant cuz Japan, China and others are "demanding" this.. so in the spirit of America.. screw the regular guy .. so who cares.

I am not an alarmist.. but I mean it is serious.. this really cant go thru....

 

[Texan]

Have you seen a figure on how much the tags will cost?? I haven't. The official FAQ on NAIS doesn't even give a ballpark.

The Y-Tex tags are about $2.60 in small quantities. I think Allflex are about the same. Not everyone will need a reader, computer, etc. Lots of misinformation going around about this.

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html ... d00fdcfe69

 

[Oldtimer]

Have you seen a figure on how much the tags will cost?? I haven't. The official FAQ on NAIS doesn't even give a ballpark.

The Y-Tex tags are about $2.60 in small quantities. I think Allflex are about the same. Not everyone will need a reader, computer, etc. Lots of misinformation going around about this.

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html ... d00fdcfe69

About right Texan - thru the Montana Beef Network I can purchase the tags- have my cattle and birthdates recorded for $3.00 each....This doesn't account for the cost of additional labor and time doing the tagging- which I estimate will mean headcatching all animals at vaccination time (rather than just vaccinating a group in the chute) and one more person to run the headgate and tag....
BUT
What will the cost for the movement and ownership change inspections be? What will the cost of the computerized vet health inspections be? These inspectors and vets are going to have to be paid and compensated for computer and reader equipment they need to purchase....How much will the livestock yards have to raise their commissions to pay for the computerized reader equipment and additional time and manpower required to handle the cattle? ETC. ETC. ETC... Many of these issues have not been addressed.....

Will the economic gain offset the cost? I think therein lays one of the major problems with the proposed NAIS--We don't know because no one has taken time to figure out the total cost.....

 

[frenchie]

frenchie-Tell me Ot is it the law for everyone to brand in Montana

No-but if they are running estray with no proof of ownership (hot iron brand) they can be/are taken up and sold as property of the state of Montana....

So at best you are likely 90-95%...

 

[Oldtimer]

frenchie-Tell me Ot is it the law for everyone to brand in Montana

No-but if they are running estray with no proof of ownership (hot iron brand) they can be/are taken up and sold as property of the state of Montana....

So at best you are likely 90-95%...

I would think on cattle its closer to 99%--anyway in my area...Once in a while you run into a late calf that has not been branded...I can think of only one gal around here that raises about 25 head of cattle that doesn't brand.... horses run about 50% and is raising with many going to freeze brands altho they have not been accepted by the state as total proof of ownership......

 

[frenchie]

.Can,t be hard to tell them apart ,when you only have 2 head .

It's not about telling them apart... :roll:
It's a question about what happens after you get your cattle to the sale barn and find that they don't scan.. Assuming they're scanned as they come off the trailer, you're left loading them back up, taking them back home, retagging, probably quarantining until the government gets around to verifying whatever paperwork has to be filed on a re-tag, etc etc.. Then, you get to go back to the salebarn and hope the new tag 'took.'



Heaven forbid some poor shmuck would wind up with a whole batch of tags that are no good for one reason or another.. Can't say it won't happen, though..

God forbid you don,t use the eyes God gave you to read the numbers clearly printed on the tag yourself. :idea:

That article was a hoax....it uses a total differerent system to read tags

Show me where it was a hoax.. It's been debated, and there are a lot of RFID proponents who doubt that RFID virii will be a problem, but that doesn't make it a hoax.. Heck, NAIS is being debated, but that doesn't make IT a hoax does it??

What don,t you understand ...they are read only scanners..The only way a virus could be present is if it was encrypted at the factory.And even then it won,t transfer from one tag to another :roll: [/b]

 

[frenchie]

frenchie-Tell me Ot is it the law for everyone to brand in Montana

No-but if they are running estray with no proof of ownership (hot iron brand) they can be/are taken up and sold as property of the state of Montana....

So at best you are likely 90-95%...

I would think on cattle its closer to 99%--anyway in my area...Once in a while you run into a late calf that has not been branded...I can think of only one gal around here that raises about 25 head of cattle that doesn't brand.... horses run about 50% and is raising with many going to freeze brands altho they have not been accepted by the state as total proof of ownership......

Freeze brand please....a waste of time.

 

[WORANCH]

The costs will vary by herd size.. for two reasons.. if you are a huge feedlot (like Monfort, etc) you will be allowed one tag # for one year, if you are not one of the "big dogs" you will need to tags or chips, the applicator and the computer and software to report to the gov. WHen I say report.. or kid takes your horse for a ride down the road.. you will report when she left, where she went.. I mean EVERYWHERE and when she came back. Or you take you prize cow to a show.. fisrt u take her to the vet for health papers.. u will report when u left, where u went and when u got back.. etc.. they want ALL movement of animals reported.. Sound a little "Orwellian" ? Ok.. so I got off track.. Kansas State University "projects" the following cost

1. $3.43 for a herd of 1250 animals.. this would be one tag, for one year annual $4287.50
2. $13.22 per head for a herd of 125 animals, or $1652.50
3. $24.10 per head for a herd of 62 animals, or $1494.20
4. $70.89 per head for a herd of 20 aniamls, or $1417.80
5. $138.22 per head for a herd of 10 aniamls, or $1382.20

Remember cost is based on what you need to apply the tag or chip, and the tag or chip itself, and the computer and software needed as well as the wand to read the tag,chip. You will need that with 1 animal or 10000.

It is also my understanding that even 1 family with 1 cow/steer (they plan on eating or is a kids 4H animal) will have to do this.

People really need to read up on this, it is ridiclous

It was estimated that a rancher with 100 heifers would report information on those heifers in a season to the tune of 1.5 hours per day (averaged .. more like 10 hours here, 10 there, etc)

Lawsuits have also been filed as this debacle is in violation of 5 of our Constitutional rights.

The real reason for this thing? Big producers need to export.. they cant cuz Japan, China and others are "demanding" this.. so in the spirit of America.. screw the regular guy .. so who cares.

I am not an alarmist.. but I mean it is serious.. this really cant go thru....

You (bwflonghorns) really need to read up on this. So you can get your facts stright.

 

[frenchie]

The current range of tests being used are designed to pick up B.s.e in animals over 20 months or older.The majority of slaughter feeder cattle are under that in age.

Oh, and we're at the final frontier of testing are we?? :roll:


Maybe 'we' could spend some of the wasted NAIS money to develop a faster, cheaper, more accurate BSE test...

That would be a logical place to start you :dunce: :roll:

To actually have a test that works on the majority of cattle slaughtered..under 20 months before you start manadatory testing. :idea:

(I use the term 'we' very loosely there, given that we're not talking about 'our' taxdollars -- we're talking about *MY* taxdollars.. You being Canadian and all.)

You know this chip you have on your shoulder ..you can stick that where the sun don,t shine .

I could really care less ,what you think about "YOUR" tax dollars.And Btw the way it is "Our tax dollars" we are talking about here.

As for my comments last time I looked this was the internet.If you don,t like my comments too bad go play somewhere else.Flounder needs a buddy.

.

I will guarentee you that if the U.S.D.A were to enforce blanket testing the C.F.I.A would follow their lead and enforce it up here.That is a concern for the Canuks..Who the h3LL do you think Is going to pay for this testing. it won,t be the packers..it will be ranchers.

Bottom line ..The same packers operate on both sides of the border.

 

[frenchie]

Producer driven..federally enforced mandatory i.d program.

Do you guys have to register your farms for satellite surveillance and get government permission to own a goat, chicken, pig, sheep, etc. -- even your own consumption??

Head injury was it :?: