BREEDING AGE
- Thread starter CHESTER
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J&T Farm
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Yes. 15 months is pretty standard to calve as a 2 yr old.
jkwilson
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They will be old enough next spring or early summer to breed for a spring 2007 calf. Fall breeding gives you summer calves, which is tough in most of the country. Bad grazing plus high temps makes life difficult for the newborn and mama.
They SHOULD be able to calve at 2 years of age; but get or borrow a scale because guessing weights is not a game I like to play. And get a more accuarate birth date. 400 pounds for a calf born April 30th (taking a number in the middle) is about a 100 pounds lighter than I would like (and you better descide whether to sell them next month or start feeding them supplement to catch them back up). Now if they were born on May 31st they are right where I would like them to be and keep up the good work. If they were born in March and just weigh 400 pounds at Halloween give it up because they are too stunted already to calve safely long before their third birthday.
NewCowboy
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Brandonm2":1m4cx6jn said:
what supplement do you recommend to catch up calves that are low weight? :cboy:
Jeanne - Simme Valley
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400# calves should be getting a balanced mix feed ration, with a 13-15% protein level. They should be started on 1% of their body weight (4# per head per day - best to feed 2# in AM 7 2# in PM) Than each week you should increase the amount until they are receiving at least 3% of their body weight.
They should weigh ABOUT 100# per month of age. So if they are 4 months old - 400# is OK. That also depends on their breed.
But WHEN they can be bred does not depend on their AGE as much as their WEIGHT for their age. Heifers will not cycle until they reach a certain weight for the age & breed.
If you want to have April born calves, they will need to reach a targeted weight by July of next year.
They also need good quality grass or hay, plenty of fresh water, & a good mineral source. Visit your feed store - they should know what you need.
They should weigh ABOUT 100# per month of age. So if they are 4 months old - 400# is OK. That also depends on their breed.
But WHEN they can be bred does not depend on their AGE as much as their WEIGHT for their age. Heifers will not cycle until they reach a certain weight for the age & breed.
If you want to have April born calves, they will need to reach a targeted weight by July of next year.
They also need good quality grass or hay, plenty of fresh water, & a good mineral source. Visit your feed store - they should know what you need.
I agree with most of what Jean had to say, except that I may be used to a much more moderate framed heifer than she is so I like a minimum of 55 lbs of gain per month of age for heifers in the first year. 100 pounds of gain per month is usually a bull rule. Here is more on developing heifers from the University of Nebraska...
http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/beef/g493.htm
http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/beef/g493.htm
all4athena
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i like to start breeding my heifs at 2 years of age so they won't get dystocia, or not breed back again. just some food for thought ;-)
all4athena":1eqhbnjz said:
That's one school of thought. We calve our heifers at 23-25 months, no dystocia, acceptable weaning weights and frequently they're the first to calve the following year.
Selection criteria for both the heifers and the bull they are bred to and proper nutrition are the most important factors (in my opinion).
dun
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Ditto here too. You cannot afford to lose 1 year waiting to breed them at 2 years old. If properly fed, and time spent on sire selection, there should not be ANY dystocia calfing out 2 year old heifers.dun":2yduz6q1 said:
The Nebraska article you referred to was REVISED NOVEMBER 1985 - a bit outdated info for my liking. But, if you looked at it, even back 20 years ago, they agree that you cannot afford to wait to calve at 3 years old.
My rule of thumb of 100#/mo of age is thru weaning, they slow down after that.
If you are referring to 55#/month prior to weaning, they would weigh 385 + birth weight - so maybe 455# at 7 months old. I don't care what breed (well except the midgets - Highland, Miniature Hfd, etc) that is too small in todays industry. I may have Simmental, but Hereford & Angus breeders all around have weights very comparable to mine - some even more!
If you are referring to 55# AFTER weaning, I agree it could be pretty close to that
Well if you will reread I said...."I like a minimum of 55 lbs of gain per month of age for heifers in the first year." Doing the math, (12months x 55 lbs per month)+75 pounds of birth wt equals a goal of 735 pounds. Chester can forget that number and better shoot for 685 pounds because he will mess up those heifers if he throws that much grain at them. If you refer back to the Nebraska article (and I don't know what the year has to do with anything), a 685 lb yearling heifer should be cycling and she should be gaining right on pace (without any pushing) to be big enough to breed at 15 months. Chester's heifers are already weaned and they weigh 400 pounds so I am guessing they are neither growthy nor large framed. For Chester's heifers to weigh 685 by April 30 they need to gain 285 pounds or 1.6 lbs per day, which is very ambitious. It is a lot easier when they wean off the mama at 600 lbs and you can get to 700++ over the winter with just good hay, ryegrass and a little whole cottonseed. Chester's calves (if he is not understimating their wts) are lite and are going to need a daily mixed ration to reach that (normally) not very demanding 685 pound goal.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Well, we are on two totally different pages when it comes to size. A 685# weight is a GOOD weaning weight - not a good YEARLING WEIGHT. And I am talking 6 frame cattle, which is a very usable size for the commercial breeder.
The date of the information indicates how OLD the info is. Back 20 years ago, things were different. Genetics do change, improvements have been made over 20 years - at least progressive breeders have changed.
[/quote]they need to gain 285 pounds or 1.6 lbs per day, which is very ambitious.
Now, back to the 400# calf, I would suggest worming her & putting her on a good mineral program, along with a good health vaccination program, and good feed.
The date of the information indicates how OLD the info is. Back 20 years ago, things were different. Genetics do change, improvements have been made over 20 years - at least progressive breeders have changed.
[/quote]they need to gain 285 pounds or 1.6 lbs per day, which is very ambitious.
If a 600# weaned heifer only gained 100++ # over 160 days, I would question the producer's ability to raise cattle on any feed. Good hay, ryegrass & whole cottonseed should give you a 2# gain on a 600# healthy weaned calf.
Now, back to the 400# calf, I would suggest worming her & putting her on a good mineral program, along with a good health vaccination program, and good feed.
Shucks, I'm getting a 2lb/day gain off my weaned holstein calves. A beef calf should be able to do much better than that on grain.
I have an angus/holstein cross heifer here that's ~440lbs, DOB 4/22, and I see no reason why she can't be 800lbs by May 1st as a yearling. That's only 180 days with a 2lb/day gain, for an additional 360lbs of weight.
jersey lilly
Well-known member
Last year, our daughter raised a pen of three commercial heifers for showing at the fair. Was the first time we'd done something like that.
Their feed ration was 10 lbs each of a rice bran 15%,cotton seed 25%, corn mixture 60%. Plus free access to hay, and what grass was in their 3 acre pasture.
They weighed in at a average of 525 each November 29, 2004
then on June 3 they weighed in at the fair, averaging 1100 lbs each. They were brangus heifers. The feed cost us 167.00 a ton. Average daily weight gain was 3.8 lbs. I was real impressed with this feed ration, much more so than what the feed stores sell. That stuff will make you go broke real fast at $8.95/50# bags. we started them on that for the first month or so when I decided that was just NOT economical at all, but I'd asked at the feed store what to feed show heifers and that's what they told me everyone was feeding. And the ration was 20# each per day.After asking around I found a feed supplier that I can buy bulk from, cheaper than even the coop. Boy did I learn alot with that project. Her heifers placed 4th, against some that were registered cattle, we pulled hers from our own pasture. So I felt good about how it all came out.
Their feed ration was 10 lbs each of a rice bran 15%,cotton seed 25%, corn mixture 60%. Plus free access to hay, and what grass was in their 3 acre pasture.
They weighed in at a average of 525 each November 29, 2004
then on June 3 they weighed in at the fair, averaging 1100 lbs each. They were brangus heifers. The feed cost us 167.00 a ton. Average daily weight gain was 3.8 lbs. I was real impressed with this feed ration, much more so than what the feed stores sell. That stuff will make you go broke real fast at $8.95/50# bags. we started them on that for the first month or so when I decided that was just NOT economical at all, but I'd asked at the feed store what to feed show heifers and that's what they told me everyone was feeding. And the ration was 20# each per day.After asking around I found a feed supplier that I can buy bulk from, cheaper than even the coop. Boy did I learn alot with that project. Her heifers placed 4th, against some that were registered cattle, we pulled hers from our own pasture. So I felt good about how it all came out.
Jeanne - Simme Valley":2z9i0uii said:
Jean, I am not doubting your ability to raise cattle; but I don't think you have a lot of experience buying lite stockyard heifers and trying to turn them into decent commercial cows. You wouldn't more than double the weight of your 650 lb weaned heifers and turn them into 1350 pound yearlings and Chester better not get so hot with that ration that he turns those little 400 pound heifers into 850 pound 12 month old heifers either. Your trying to get them to 65% of their mature body weight by 15 months old NOT finish them. You more than double the weight of almost any heifer between weaning and puberty and you are really risking her laying fat down where her udder is supposed to be. That is how we get those little lard tub culls that are always the fattest cow in the pasture but which can't wean a calf of over 350 pounds because they got no udder and that is a real risk with throwing grain to smallish frame cattle. Chester also PROBABLY does not want these girls to carry the finish of show heifers and he probably wants them to make their living on grass at some point in their lives without them falling apart. I agree that 685 is a lite target; but most of us are not growing out 400 pound weaners any more either. That would be a 71% increase in weight, in 150 days which is very good for any cattle post weaning. For a commercial heifer (not a show prospect) 500-650 off of the cow is a good window, 700-800 is a good 12 month target, she hits that spring and early summer grass for 90 days and she should be 800-925 and ready to breed. Chester is probably (if these are poorly managed and NOT just small cattle) 100-175 pounds behind now. To me if he can cut that to 20-60 pounds behind in 5 months he can easily be caught back up by breeding time depending on what kind of genetics he is working with. If Chester could provide us with pics and actual scale weights we probably could provide a more accurate opinion on what his real needs are.
Here is Jean's newer heifer paper.....
http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extpubs/ansci/ ... htm#Target
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Jersey Lilly - We always feed cottonseed & corn, but have never even heard of rice bran. Our ration would include oats, so rice bran must be similar in feed value to oats. Did you feed 10# from beginning to end or averaged 10#/hd/day? And I totally believe in feeding free choice hay. The more hay they eat, the more they can digest the grain you give them.
Brandonm2 - no, I do not have ANY experience in buying anything light weight. But, I do have a lot of experience helping juniors feeding out their projects. And, yes, some of them have started out with really poor projects.
Bottom line, feeding grain at 1% of their body weight to start, and SLOWLY increasing to 3% of their body weight is a VERY SAFE ration - recommended by every nutritionist/university I have ever known. And once they are up to 3% of their body weight, you can increase that % as long as you keep an eye on their manure and keep free choice hay or grass in front of them. And if you look back, I did warn him to keep an eye on their FAT. I totally agree, you do not want a fat heifer, you WILL ruin their udder for future production.
The biggest problem with giving any advice to Chester is that there is so much diversity in the nation's cow herd that we really don't know where these heifers are on their growth curve. On a heavy day in the big fall runs there can be 10-11 different frame scores in the same stock yard and every conceivable degree of muscling. I am thinking Chester has bought some lite frame 3 to frame 5 calves. It is just as possible that these are stunted large frame calves with a worm infestation OR are just good old fashioned small frame calves that are right where they need to be. I am old enough to remember fat 410 pound weaner heifers and 650 pound heifer breeding targets, but I hope Chester's are just lite.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Hello, Chester - are you out there???
jersey lilly
Well-known member
Started feeding about 3 lbs a head per day, then increased by 1 lb every other day until full ration of 10 lbs was reached.
