Well, I've been reading this thread and trying to keep up with the comments. Don't know if I should respond or not in one that looks heated, but here I am taking the plunge. First, I'll agree the cow looks like she has some Holstein but then again I have a cow that looks like a purebred Char that doesn't have a drip drop in her. I think the white face bull and the young red bull are decent bulls, not a fan of the black angus bull. How I see it there isn't enough perfect bulls out there for every cattleman to have one. I also do see the flat hams or ass that everyone is talking about. Bad looking bulls and average bulls can still have nice calves but maybe just not as consistent as a good looking stout bull (or should I say perfect bull). I was taught there wasn't a perfect animal just like there isn't a perfect human being (or even cattle farmer or rancher). Personally I didn't think this topic should of got this heated. Give the poster your opinion and advice, then move on. He'll take it or he won't. The poster needs to accept the feedback and not let it offend him or her. There is always going to be critics as well as breed haters. I've had 3way pick on one of our bulls I have posted before, but that was his opinion and I think he meant well and was right to a degree. A customer did come by and really loved the bull and purchased him at a good price. Therefore different ones have their likes and dislikes, you tell me who is wrong and right. The calves posted here I really like, maybe I'm a sucker for chrome. True they have chrome, true order buyers will sometimes run from it or dock for it compared to a solid black uniform calf here. I've had a few in the past come out with those markings (Foundation Simmental Marks). One looked a lot like one of these calves and I really liked them and ours went with the black calves at the auction and did well. I wouldn't call them mongrels, just chrome calves. Indeed the original poster could get better bulls and get more uniformed calves but he would pay dearly for them most likely. His isn't that bad to go that route from what I have seen. I would buy some bulls from pedigree's outside of the herd though. Okay there is my opinion.