Big Boy Jr.

[Kingfisher]

What ever the color, those calves look AWESOME! :clap:

Why do you believe they are AWESOME ? Just wondering...thanks in advance.

 

[Kingfisher]

Thanks, you know, its hard not to get defensive when i'm told i have mongrels. I'm suppose to be in group of people who are in the business and when it comes right down to it, isnt it the calf you sell that matters. Again, at the tender age of 24 months, i know this bull isnt the most beautiful but no one can argue what he produces isnt good. His calves didnt disappoint last year either, the reason he's back at work. His calves were massive and impressive. They outdid all of our registered bulls weaning weight wise and price per pound at the sale barn. So, its what they buyers want and its what i'll try to give them.

For the record. No one including me ever said you don't have some nice calves. It's all the other stuff that gets in the way. I love the length of hip and depth on the calves you pictured.

How about we let it go at that.................( a vote from the gay community) ;-)

OMG! Who is talking about you!?

 

[branguscowgirl]

What ever the color, those calves look AWESOME! :clap:

Why do you believe they are AWESOME ? Just wondering...thanks in advance.

 

[branguscowgirl]

What ever the color, those calves look AWESOME! :clap:

Why do you believe they are AWESOME ? Just wondering...thanks in advance.

What I see from those pictures, they look balanced. With good muscle development equally distributed from front to back. The width and depth of their frame- Wide, long, and deep. (In proper proportions for their age.) Broad straight backs and rounded butts! I myself, like that they are larger boned. I can tell by their legs that they can support a heavier frame. The bulls look masculine already, the females look feminine.
Expression- Bright eyed, alert, with nice hair. (Also a sign of good health.)

 

[WalnutCrest]

I like the what is now considered to be the old fashioned Simmentals too. It's a shame how so many breeds have been made "black" and have lost the original breed standard.

Yes, there are lots of breeds that have lost their unique identity. In fact, there are many breeds that seem to exist solely to promote one cross or another, and not really to promote their own unique set of traits. Some would argue that some breeds and their unique set of traits aren't all that valuable...and, as it regards some breeds, they make a good case.

For example, I spoke with a former executive of a "top 10 breed" ... and he told me that while he was with that breed, most of the breeders he dealt with didn't actually eat the meat from the animals they produced as the dining experience was pretty poor. Now, these animals looked good in the pasture and when getting USDA grades they had reasonable grades, but when it came time to fire up the grill, they simply didn't perform on the plate.

HOWEVER ... and if commercial guys focus on getting F1 bulls for their commerical/terminal herds, over time, they may find themselves bred into a corner (particularly as it regards hybrid vigor). The breeders who breed these pure strains of whatever breed they're breeding (assuming the breed and the strains within the breed are worth while to the commercial rancher) need to be encouraged ... and ... it's up to those breeders to find worthwhile markets for the stock that will come off their farm that isn't worth selling to someone else as breeding stock. In this "bwf/black only, all the time" market, the guy with fullblood __________ needs to know where to take his non-breeding stock to get solid pricing, and if they can't, they'll have a hard time staying in the fullblood business of a non-black/bwf breed.

QUITE SEPARATELY --- If anyone wants them (and will pay the freight and is patient), I have (somewhere) in a single cane in a stuffed semen tank, two units of old Simmental semen (one each of two different bulls). I don't recall the bulls names, but the guy I got the tanks from thinks they were European imports from the 1970s. Who knows what sort of rainbow could pop out of a cow when those calves would hit the ground... So, if you (or someone else) wants them ... LMK.

******************

As an aside, most everyone here has commented on how "calf X" will do awesome / awful at a sale barn due to its markings.

It seems to be lost on most everyone who's commented on this thread ... not every buyer at your local barn is looking for what the buyers at someone else's local barn are looking for. A little ear does pretty well in TX ... but not in (say) Minnesota. I have no idea what sells well in the OP's local barn.

In my case, if I'm wanting to sell anything that's solid black, I'll head east or north about 20 miles ... however, if I have something red to sell, I'll hike about 30 miles south or west. I guess it's a good thing I don't have to worry too much about any of that since I'm only selling straight to families, though.

 

[Taurus]

I like the what is now considered to be the old fashioned Simmentals too. It's a shame how so many breeds have been made "black" and have lost the original breed standard.

totally agree!!!!!! I still laugh when I see black Herefords. Not crazy about most Black Beefmaster or black Sims.

Hey now I do like how black Simmental turns out but I still laugh at black Herefords, black limousins and homo black longhorns. These black longhorns are not good cattle even for longhorn standards...

 

[Taurus]

What I see from those pictures, they look balanced. With good muscle development equally distributed from front to back. The width and depth of their frame- Wide, long, and deep. (In proper proportions for their age.) Broad straight backs and rounded butts! I myself, like that they are larger boned. I can tell by their legs that they can support a heavier frame. The bulls look masculine already, the females look feminine.
Expression- Bright eyed, alert, with nice hair. (Also a sign of good health.)

I can see three calves that is quality calves but the rest of calves are just average looking, nothing special about them.

 

[LauraleesFarm]

cowgirl8,
I think the cows and calves are lovely and you have done well.
I'm glad that at least one of your "attackers" had the cahones to come back after you posted more pictures and at least offer a truce, which earned my respect!
I see you are in northeast tx, which I am also. You are welcome to come to my place anytime and we can talk cows.
LOVE the old fashioned simmental cows and their calves....! And glad to see someone has a good group of them still going. All black is just so boring to me.
It doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks if you are happy with them.

 

[BMCC]

Whew, for a while there following this thread was kind of like getting hooked on watching pro wrestling on tv; but I was pulling for you cowgirl. Your cows and calves look good and I like the red yearling bull.

 

[branguscowgirl]

What I see from those pictures, they look balanced. With good muscle development equally distributed from front to back. The width and depth of their frame- Wide, long, and deep. (In proper proportions for their age.) Broad straight backs and rounded butts! I myself, like that they are larger boned. I can tell by their legs that they can support a heavier frame. The bulls look masculine already, the females look feminine.
Expression- Bright eyed, alert, with nice hair. (Also a sign of good health.)

I can see three calves that is quality calves but the rest of calves are just average looking, nothing special about them.

"Eye of the beholder"!
Plus, I do not believe in ripping someones animals apart just for the sake of doing so. ;-)

 

[wacocowboy]

I like the what is now considered to be the old fashioned Simmentals too. It's a shame how so many breeds have been made "black" and have lost the original breed standard.

totally agree!!!!!! I still laugh when I see black Herefords. Not crazy about most Black Beefmaster or black Sims.

Hey now I do like how black Simmental turns out but I still laugh at black Herefords, black limousins and homo black longhorns. These black longhorns are not good cattle even for longhorn standards...

I like the look of some black Sims and black Beefmaster but just not crazy about how they got black. I had a black Lim cow she was a mean old thing when we were selling her I ended up standing on her head. I have never seen a black Longhorn a few solid red and a bunch of spots but no solid black.

 

[branguscowgirl]

I guess that I missed out on why it is preferred to have black cattle.........I don't buy or sell commercial cattle. So I really don't know this.
I know they sell better, but why exactly do they sell better?
I know uniform color and size is important, but why is uniform color important?

 

[skeeter swatter]

Thanks, you know, its hard not to get defensive when i'm told i have mongrels. I'm suppose to be in group of people who are in the business and when it comes right down to it, isnt it the calf you sell that matters. Again, at the tender age of 24 months, i know this bull isnt the most beautiful but no one can argue what he produces isnt good. His calves didnt disappoint last year either, the reason he's back at work. His calves were massive and impressive. They outdid all of our registered bulls weaning weight wise and price per pound at the sale barn. So, its what they buyers want and its what i'll try to give them.

At the tender age of 24mo you already weaned and sold calves from him last year? Impressive.
I do like most of the calves you posted tho, good length and muscle.

 

[cowgirl8]

See, this is all i wanted to do, talk.
On the chrome issue i have this to say. Why do buyers buy a full chrome char? Hanging weight. They know that no part of that animal can be sold as top angus, but dang its going to win in the hanging weight department. So, this is what keeps char people, char people. Old time sims looked like spotted char, big boned, long....I loved the markings, the calves were so psychedelic. We got into sims back when people wanted leaner meats, :???: , bought this big red sim who threw these giant calves. Our cow herd was mainly brangus, with lots of other stuff mixed in, but they were mainly brangus. It was a disaster at first, we had to pull so many calves. Jump up 10 years and people decided lean meat sucked and the angus craze started. At the inspection line, they decided that if a calf was so much % of black, it can be stamped angus. Thus the reason if you can turn you breed black, they get the honored stamp ANGUS....So we thought, hum, we now have mainly sim cows, we can now get angus or black sim/angus and not only will we almost never have to pull a calf, but they will be mostly black and big, win win.
Now, there is a difference in chrome. You have the chrome that old time sims throw, trust me, buyers like that chrome. It means, angus stamp with heavier hanging weight. Buyers know this old sim chrome and will pay for it. Then, you have the longhorn chrome. This is the chrome you dont want, skunk tail, roany, tri color....Buyers are swift and know if a calf comes in with chrome at their flanks, if that calf has longhorn or sim.... Back before LBW angus, longhorns were widely used on heifers and on herds where no one was there to keep an eye on them. So, maybe this is where some of you are getting chrome confused with lower selling calves.
Skeeter, i may have miss typed, he bred a herd at the age of 1, we are getting calves out of him this year. If they had been something we knew we wouldnt want we were ready to sell him. But, they were looking good, so we kept him. He is out of a bull who out preformed our other herds and this bulls calves were looking as good...

 

[cowgirl8]

TB, the plan you were so desperately looking for....Mostly black calves, with sim size. In 2005/06 drought, while watching people selling out, we held onto most of our heifers because they were bringing bottom dollar and we were looking ahead.. And then again, in 2011/12 we watched even more around us sell out at bottom dollar. We held on to everything worth holding onto and yes, even fed feeds we had never fed before to hold onto what we had been working on since the 80s. What these struggles left us with is around 250 cows that are 2006 or younger today, sim/angus mix and a market that is paying out the wazoo for them. This year, we plan to sell anything we have 2003 and older and will hang on to more heifers again. Although my fav years are the ones without so many calving heifers to watch...
I'm going to guess what is going to happen in the meat market on down the line is all these breeds that are going black, some smart sharp eye'd buyers are going to be able to tell the difference. So, in the long run, if you want cattle that are going to bring top dollar, they better look mostly angus.
I remember the first calf we processed when they were sims were a little disappointing. The more angus we get in the calves we process, the better they taste. You cant beat angus, this is why people pay more for it at restaurants. I guess when I see char burgers at Mc Donalds, i'll switch to char......
Also, back way before i ever owned a cow, the prized calf was a hereford/angus calf, black baldy...I bet those were good eating. In fact, it has me thinking :!: although i've never liked hereford cows, never owned one. My daughter has 3 black herefords and she has an awesome fast growing bull calf....hum...

 

[TexasBred]

What I see from those pictures, they look balanced. With good muscle development equally distributed from front to back. The width and depth of their frame- Wide, long, and deep. (In proper proportions for their age.) Broad straight backs and rounded butts! I myself, like that they are larger boned. I can tell by their legs that they can support a heavier frame. The bulls look masculine already, the females look feminine.
Expression- Bright eyed, alert, with nice hair. (Also a sign of good health.)

I can see three calves that is quality calves but the rest of calves are just average looking, nothing special about them.

"Eye of the beholder"!
Plus, I do not believe in ripping someones animals apart just for the sake of doing so. ;-)

Neither do any of the rest of us but sometimes truth hurts. But I suppose we could just turn it into a mutual admiration society and see how much it improves our herds. This operation is a mess. As I mentioned earlier, there is no plan in place whatsoever. Just keep'em bred and sell the calves. This is a prime example of "in breeding" and loving markings and chrome rather than quality. BTW the calves you pictured look pretty good. Please don't breed the heifers you retain back to their granddad.

 

[cowgirl8]

TB, i swear you dont read a thing.
Here is an example of bad chrome vs good chrome. Yes, we have a longhorn on our place. She's our daughters pet, Brianna, and is here to be with a bull. Daughter lives on a highway and she's her pasture art. Her calf is out of the same angus bull the red sim heifers calf is out of. The fella with the w/f...So these are 2 different chromes and we'd be dumb to thing a buyer would not know the difference.

Drove through taking random pictures of the calves in the younger herds.

Most will be black, maybe a handful that arent.

 

[cowgirl8]

I will keep this heifer. Out of my fav bull..If i were ever going to develop a signature breed, it would look like this. When she ages, she'll darken to a deep red brindle..

Out showing us what he can do is a yearling bull we have high hopes for and 1/2 brother to the heifer above. Plopped on the ground at a dinky weight of around 40 lbs, outweighed everyone at weaning. His mother was a commercial show heifer who we decided not to show, she's got some brangus in her so she was probably a little rowdy for our girls.. What i like about this cow over the years is when she calves, you can not tell at all. Her calves are small and wean out the biggest. She's obviously a heavy milker with a pretty good udder. And, this calf is as big as our 2yr old calving heifers and again, has never seen a bucket of feed. So he shows to live on air like his mother. Any w/f we get, this is what we want. FIngers crossed he works out, his father is getting old. Would love to have a bull i can put on any herd...

here he is at a couple weeks old

Kitty Hams, he's got a name now, lol, out working the heifers. So so tough getting a picture. The guy wont sit still, he's checking everyone, busy busy...Technically we almost never keep heifer calves. They have to be quite spectacular to catch our eye, but it does happen occasionally. Note the brand, we did buy this bull and he is registered. We do buy bulls, but keep high performers to experiment with. I'd be bored as heck if i werent allowed to experiment. Anyone can go pick a bull out...i want to make mine.

 

[TexasBred]

I read very well. You on the other hand I"m not sure about. You need a MANAGER for that many cattle. It's little more than an inbred bunch of "cows". Some are decent, some are garbage and the same applies to the calf. You type a lot but you show no real understanding or long range plan. Nothing but vague terms, nothing specific and as mentioned earlier, most decisions seem to be based on coloration, "cuteness" and little more. You have no idea what you're going to have until the calf is born. As Taurus said, "a bunch of mongrels". I would much rather hear about a long range program, some sense of direction, a willingness to be open minded and listen to suggestions but I know that won't happen. Not in your personality. I'm glad to hear one comment you said about selling some culls.....hire a big truck and trailer. You need to cull very heavy...call someone with some knowledge to come out and be brutally honest with you about the cattle and why each one should be culled. You won't have 300 mama cows left but you'll have a good place for a new beginning. Forget numbers and reach for more quality !!!! If you're not willing to do this then you're a hopeless case. But you'll have a lot of cattle. :dunce:

 

[cowgirl8]

I want to give most of the credit to my wonderful husband who is the smartest person i've ever met. Give him a sows ear and he'll turn it into gold. I've learned everything from him and i'm grateful that he allows me to do the job i do. He is the hardest working person i've ever been around, a roll model to live by.. I'll also have to say he's a lucky fella, girls like me are hard to find. I'd rather be covered in manure and sitting on a 4wheeler, than out shopping for shoes, well, shopping period.